How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

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How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz,  
or both?

I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.

My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism) because USA  
phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.

All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.

For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent 15.6-inch  
display laptop:
http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop -|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html

The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac", there's  
no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.

But, we can fix that at the HP web site.

If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what Costco doesn't  
have (and get free shipping).
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1 #!&TabName=specs

0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much memory as  
   Costco's (4GB -> 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only $20 more  
   than the Costco price.
1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra $140 (either  
   boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier re-use later).
   https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CTOAddonsView?partNumber=QM4342
2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band, 2.4GHz and  
   5GHz or not?
3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30 (because my sis  
   wants that).
   https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CTOAddonsView?partNumber=LV290AA%23ABA
The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).

For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an hour with the HP
sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop has both
2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.

HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n" don't have to be dual
band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2 or 4x4 just means
the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which says absolutely  
nothing about the frequency.
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac-wifi-for-dummies.pdf

My question is ...
How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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Looks at the specs.  If it says 802.11 followed by:
  b/g     = 2.4 GHz only
  b/g/n   = 2.4 GHz only
  a       = 5 GHz only
  a/b/g/n = 2.4 and 5 GHz
The key is the "a" as in 802.11a, which is 5 GHz only.

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Broken link.  Try:
<http://reviews.costco.com/2070/100085182/hewlett-packard-hp-envy-15z-laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm
which says:
   802.11b/g/n WLAN  
which is 2.4 GHz only.  You might want to read the reviews.

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A BlueGoof dongle can be plugged into the a USB port.
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/321216764033
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/171217973745
Buy a few spares as I've been shipped defective receivers.

Office 2013 is usually extra.  If you must have Microsoft Office, look
at Office 365 or the various Office Mutations available.  Or, use free
open source software such as Libre Office or Open Office.  There are
also Office alternatives:
<http://www.informationweek.com/software/productivity-collaboration-apps/8-microsoft-office-alternatives/d/d-id/1320386
<http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/best-microsoft-office-alternatives/
<http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010005/5-free-open-source-alternatives-to-microsoft-office.html

Still nym shifting?

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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So, if it doesn't have "a" (all by itself and not with "ac"),  
then it's not 5GHz? Is that correct?

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laptop-amd-quad-core-a10-backlit-keyboard-reviews/reviews.htm>
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This link worked for me just now:
http://www.costco.com/CTOConfigureCmd?model=M0A67AV&catalogId=10701&langId=-1&storeId=10301&refine=&categoryId=56001&prodtype=2

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Sad story. Long story. Experience. Nothing else is Microsoft Office.  
You and I can handle any office lookalike program, but teachers can't.
Office 365 is stupid, for anyone buying only 1 copy of Home & Student,  
and who is still using Office 2007, which means they'd pay for Office
ten times over with the subscription than with the one price.

Back to the "a", which is 5GHz and "g" which is 2.4GHz.
What if it's 802.11 b/g/n/ac ?

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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No.  Both 802.11a and 802.11ac are 5 GHz only.  Just look for the "a"
and it should be able to do 5 GHz in some manner.

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The WLAN card is listed as "802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]" which will NOT do
5 GHz.

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Are you sure?  Office 365 can be installed on 5 machines.  If the
skool has 5 machines of any type, which makes the price for each
machine about $20/year.
<http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Office-365-Home/productID.286395000
Meanwhile, Home and Student is $140 and should last about 5 to 7 years
before it become too old to use.  At an optimistic 7 years, that's the
same $20/year per machine as Office 365.

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No such thing.  In order to do "ac", it will need to also do "a".  So
the typical designation will be:
   802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:32:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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Unfortunately, the "typical" designation doesn't help us here.
The HP spec, as you have seen, just says "ac" for the high end card.
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 21:32:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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I'm sure, but only because of arithmetic.

She's a teacher. Not a school.  

She only has an ancient WinXP desktop that has Office 2007 on it.
When she gets a new laptop, she needs a new Office anyway.

1. Renting Office 365 for a laptop costs $100/year and can be put on 4  
more non WinXP machines that don't actually exist. After 7 years, renting  
cost her $700 for Office for that one laptop, which is more than the  
laptop costs.

2. Buying Office 2013 costs her $140, and can be put on one desktop and  
one laptop. Since the desktop is WinXP, the additional license is moot,  
so, it costs her $140 for 7 years (or 10% less with the teacher discount).

It's a no brainer, to me; but this isn't the question in the OP, so it's  
just an offshoot discussion which isn't at all confusing to me.


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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If you don't believe the numbers, then what do you believe?

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Nope.  Office 2007 will run on Win 10:
<http://www.microsoft.com/en-in/windows/compatibility/CompatCenter/ProductViewerWithDefaultFilters?TempOsid=Windows%2010&Locale=en-in&Architecture=X64&TextSearch=microsoft%2Boffice%2B2007%2Bstandard&Type=Both&CurrentPage=0&TotalPages=1&ShowCriteria=0&SortCriteria=Relevance&Compatibility=Unknown&LastRequested=14
Grab Belarc Advisor, run it on the XP machine, and PRINT the results.
Somewhere in there, it will have the various serial numbers needed for
the installation.  If the ancient XP machine crashes without a backup
or a list of serial numbers, she will not be able to reinstall Office
2007 on a new machine:
<http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

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Right.  With only one machine, Office 365 doesn't make economic sense.
I was thinking of a skool, not an individual user.  I still think the
various alternatives (Google Office, LibreOffice, etc) are worth
investigating.

Good luck.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 09:46:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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Jeff.  
You are correct.  
But you were thinking differently than I was.

You were thinking of bringing the (winxp desktop) 2007 license upward to  
the new (win10 laptop), and I discounted that out of hand.

This is a hand-me-down desktop that someone else didn't want, so they  
gave it to this teacher, many years ago. It came with zero discs!

But that wouldn't stop you or me.

If it were you or me, we'd use Belarc to find the original office product  
key (or serial number, I forget which) and we'd then find the Office 2007  
download ISO hidden deeply on the Microsoft web site - and we'd download  
that Microsoft-provided ISO, perhaps burn it to optical disc for re-use,  
and we'd simply install Office 2007 on the new laptop from that ISO, and  
we'd bring over the old key that we unearthed using Belarc Advisor.  

In the end, you or I would have Office 2007 running on their one (winXP)  
desktop and their one new (win10) laptop, which is within the license  
constraints (I believe).

But that ain't gonna happen with these people.
They are not technical.
They can't handle the complexity.

Plus, it's time they moved into the new century, so, if they stick with  
Office 2007 (which they continue to call "Word 2007", not realizing there  
are multiple office apps), they will eventually have problems reading  
Office 2013 documents.

So, it's time they got a new Microsoft Office suite.

Since they will *keep* the WinXP desktop with Office 2007 on it, all  
we're looking at is a *single* license of Office 2013 (which they  
continue to call "Word 2013", which means they're not using Outlook).

So, the price comparison is the following:
1. Pay $100 per year for Office 365 for the rest of their lives, or,
2. Pay $140 once, for Office 2013 H&S for the one laptop.

To me, unless I missed a step, it's a no brainer.

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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Finding Office 2007 replacement CD's is trivial.  
Hint:  BitTorrent.

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If it were purchased online from the Microsoft site, and you have the
magic serial number, you can download a replacement ISO image.
<http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads/
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/302822

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Yep.  I vaguely recall that Office 2007 works on 2 machines.  Not
sure.

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I'm technical and I hate complexity.  Teachers have students, which
just love to help with such things.  Some of the teenage hackers are
quite knowledgeable and have impressive experience in the dark arts of
computing.  Ask the students for help.

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Maybe, but that hasn't been my experience.  I can read most anything
produced by Office 2007, 2010, and 2013 with Office 2003 and the MS
Compatibility Pack:
<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3
However, if there's a problem, I just ask the author to Save As: Word
97 format.

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The way you can tell when it's time to upgrade is when you can't get
the work done or that it's painful to use.  I have no problems reading
or writing with Office 2003 and various file format converters.  I
find Office 2007/2010 to be tedious, awkward, clumsy, and not much of
an improvement over Office 2003.  In other words, a step backwards. If
your really think it's time for a change, I suggest they step into the
(disk) space age, and take the great leap forward to Cloud Computing
with a Chromebook and Google Office.

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Outlooks is dead anyway because Windoze 10 includes mail and calendar
apps.

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3. Pay nothing and use Google Office, LibreOffice, or similar free
alternatives.

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Well, you're right about not using your brain.  What I find odd is
that your primary reason to spend the money is the inability or
unwillingness of a teacher to learn something new.  I've seen this
phenomenon with teachers in the past, where the monotonous repetition
of cramming facts into students heads eventually leads to intellectual
ossification.  Even in computing, I guess perpetual reptition of the
same mistakes is considered a good reason not to change one's habits.
Personally, I find the logic disgusting, but I promised to improve my
diplomacy and won't push the point any further.

Here's what I suggest:
1.  Have the teacher beg, borrow, buy, or steal a Chromebook.  I have
several Acer products and find them quite good and cheap.
<http://stores.ebay.com/Acer/Chromebooks-/_i.html?_fsub=7070078010
The various C720 models are what I use and like (also to run Linux).
Figure about $120 to $175 refurbished.
2.  Have one or more of the teachers students setup the Chromebook so
that it's ready to use.  The learning curve is not very steep or long,
but since that seems to be an issue here, faster is better.
3.  Have the teacher learn to user various Cloud Computing services,
such as Google Cloud, MS Skydrive/OneDrive, etc.  Also have the
teacher learn to run apps inside the browser.  If MS Word is required,
then MS has the real thing available:
<https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/word-online/fiombgjlkfpdpkbhfioofeeinbehmajg
4.  If the teacher makes it this far, the rest should be obvious.



--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

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Who cares about -b ancient slowest mode. G, N, AC. If it is AC card or
router AC is downward compatible with slower modes.Student version lacks  
some features and miscellaneous things. Why do you think it is cheaper?  
WiFi is 2 way street one laptop has AC card does not mean it'll be  
faster, corresponding device at the other end should be AC
capable too. If AC card talks to N card speed will be that of N.

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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There is one advantage.  The dog eating the homework it too old to be  
believed these days.  Now the excuse is, "My mother didn't pay this  
month's Word rent so it won't let me print"


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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Does this link work for you?
http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1

Look at this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg

If I press the customize button, I have three WiFi card choices.

1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1]  
2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]  

Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz?
How do I know?


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


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Yes, it works, after about 90 seconds of loading content from all over
the web.

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I would guess the number 3 will certainly do 5 GHz.  However, the web
designers truncated the letters that designate the all the protocols,
listing only the highest (fastest) 802.11ac.  Presumably, that would
include all the lesser protocols, including 802.11 a/b/g/n.  However,
I can't be certain without knowing the Intel model number of the
wireless card.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

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Again No. 3 Looks like basic dual band being 1x1, not 2x2 or 3x3.

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 22:48:56 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

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I'm still confused.

Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]".
So, what does that tell us?

Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

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I am out of this thread. You are impossible.
When e say it is dual band it is. If you can't believe why don't you ask  
HP? So much hassle buying a laptop.

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:45:22 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

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You have absolutely no idea what you're suggesting.

Here is the transcript!

Read it and then suggest I contact HP.

This is an automated email sent from the HP Home & Home Office Store  
Server.  
The following information is a log of your session.  
Please save the log for your records.
Your session ID for this incident is 1938843.
Time     Details
09/06/2015 08:15:30PM     System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the  
United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address  
that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed."
09/06/2015 08:15:32PM     System: "If you are looking for HP product  
support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/
us/en/contact-hp/contact.html"
09/06/2015 08:15:34PM     System: "If you still need US sales or ordering  
assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be  
with you shortly."
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Session Started with Agent (Paige M)
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with  
dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-
Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html"
09/06/2015 08:16:14PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the  
hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige.  
I've read your question and am ready to assist you."
09/06/2015 08:16:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if  
the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be  
glad to check on this for you."
09/06/2015 08:17:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M."
09/06/2015 08:17:45PM     Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z  
laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and  
5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't  
say!"
09/06/2015 08:18:04PM     Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:"
09/06/2015 08:18:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/
ConfigureView?
storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&catEntryId=998656&quantity=1&color=Natural
+silver"
09/06/2015 08:18:42PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me  
go and check it."
09/06/2015 08:20:08PM     Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options  
for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!

802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price
802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00
Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00"
09/06/2015 08:21:45PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience."
09/06/2015 08:23:06PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?"
09/06/2015 08:23:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and  
Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R)  
[1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz."
09/06/2015 08:24:38PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the  
unit but not in the shipping."
09/06/2015 08:25:37PM     Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though,  
it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your  
concern."
09/06/2015 08:25:49PM     Agent (Paige M): "I?ve checked all of my  
resources and I'm still unable to validate this."
09/06/2015 08:25:54PM     Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP  
expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that  
you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain,  
Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM ? 10PM MT."
09/06/2015 08:26:21PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4  
GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have  
NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are  
you sure about those specs? Th"
&nbsp    ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well.
09/06/2015 08:27:27PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)"
09/06/2015 08:28:40PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you  
can try calling."
09/06/2015 08:29:16PM     Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions  
if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still."
09/06/2015 08:29:31PM     Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can  
assist you with today?"
09/06/2015 08:30:29PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige
This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is  
SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question.  
The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I  
can speak with? This is not a dif"
&nbsp    ficult question.
09/06/2015 08:32:30PM     Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?"
09/06/2015 08:33:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "?"
09/06/2015 08:33:31PM     Agent (Vann): "Hi!"
09/06/2015 08:35:14PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Thank you for trying to help me.
I am asking a simple question.
Do you need me to repeat the question?"
09/06/2015 08:36:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?"
09/06/2015 08:36:47PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here."
09/06/2015 08:36:53PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait."
09/06/2015 08:37:02PM     Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session  
with Paige."
09/06/2015 08:40:18PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat  
anything.
Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether  
the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz  
bands.
Also, since"
&nbsp    that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the  
answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is  
correct, or not.
Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic  
(and these are EXTREMELY BASIC
&nbsp    questions) computer questions.
09/06/2015 08:41:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have  
questions, Ewald."
09/06/2015 08:41:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the  
information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these  
questions."
09/06/2015 08:41:47PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know  
that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just  
get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)."
09/06/2015 08:41:54PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website  
product information is very limited."
09/06/2015 08:43:31PM     Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and  
that is for free."
09/06/2015 08:44:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the  
product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip  
code and state."
09/06/2015 08:45:12PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item  
will be shipped and that the shipping is free.
Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available  
for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both."
09/06/2015 08:45:30PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on  
that."
09/06/2015 08:46:04PM     Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources  
are very limited to answer your question."
09/06/2015 08:46:16PM     Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent  
referred you to our product expert."
09/06/2015 08:46:25PM     Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and  
I will this to you."
09/06/2015 08:46:28PM     Agent (Vann): "*answer."
09/06/2015 08:46:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes  
of your time."
09/06/2015 08:46:41PM     Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here."
09/06/2015 08:47:43PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald,"
09/06/2015 08:47:46PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that."
09/06/2015 08:48:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait."
09/06/2015 08:49:00PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the  
decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/
n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card."
09/06/2015 08:49:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann"
09/06/2015 08:50:03PM     Agent (Vann): "I found more information here."
09/06/2015 08:52:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "oooPS.
Hi VAnn,
I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that  
out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only  
the "ac" card is 5GHz?"
09/06/2015 08:52:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that."
09/06/2015 08:53:17PM     Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this  
is based on something that I am not sure of."
09/06/2015 08:54:33PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi ).
Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or  
"ac" is also 5GHz."
09/06/2015 08:57:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks!"
09/06/2015 08:57:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Let me check that."
09/06/2015 08:59:32PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can  
do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at  
a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question.
My question is whether th"
&nbsp    e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz  
or both.
Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually  
an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer.
In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on
&nbsp    the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask!
09/06/2015 09:00:18PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming  
from."
09/06/2015 09:00:53PM     Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the  
marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent  
description of each wi-fi options."
09/06/2015 09:04:48PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I  
found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve  
long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore,  
I do appreciate that you are in"
&nbsp    the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that.
I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this  
laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that  
"n" can be either (just not at the same time), w
&nbsp    hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both  
at the same time).
So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to  
figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz  
bands.
09/06/2015 09:04:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood  
in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5  
Ghz."
09/06/2015 09:05:26PM     Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11  
ac 2x2 ."
09/06/2015 09:05:35PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out  
which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band."
09/06/2015 09:05:50PM     Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz."
09/06/2015 09:06:10PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:06:18PM     Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router  
has a dual band?"
09/06/2015 09:08:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac"  
card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM  
whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands.  
(I know that the "n" can make use"
&nbsp    of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not  
mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously).
But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and  
"n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o
&nbsp    nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an  
AC1750.
09/06/2015 09:14:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas  
(802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4  
does not tell me what the bands are."
09/06/2015 09:17:33PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you  
waiting."
09/06/2015 09:17:40PM     Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..."
09/06/2015 09:18:06PM     Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it  
would be better you consult our product expert."
09/06/2015 09:18:23PM     Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a  
1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/"
09/06/2015 09:19:36PM     Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated)  
transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself  
can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it  
is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is  
indicating the de"
&nbsp    dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:20:46PM     Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research  
on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work."
09/06/2015 09:21:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http://
www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac-
wifi-for-dummies.pdf"
09/06/2015 09:21:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two  
dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive.  
But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that  
they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT  
using 2 d"
&nbsp    ifferent frequencies.
09/06/2015 09:22:07PM     Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..."
09/06/2015 09:22:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..."
09/06/2015 09:24:08PM     Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums."
09/06/2015 09:24:09PM     Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/
Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to-
find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523"
09/06/2015 09:24:31PM     Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed  
as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n."
09/06/2015 09:25:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10  
of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim):
"In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan
-
dards, the number of send and receive antennas and
stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o"
&nbsp    ne antenna
supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup
-
porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares
the performance of antenna and stream configurations
in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards"
09/06/2015 09:25:31PM     Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of  
antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency."
09/06/2015 09:26:15PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this  
to our product expert and I shall email you the answer."
09/06/2015 09:26:38PM     Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our  
time and this is something that I cannot confirm."
09/06/2015 09:26:44PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn,
An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band.  
That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the  
question if the spec simply said what it should say!"
09/06/2015 09:26:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want  
to get the answer of this."
09/06/2015 09:28:23PM     Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert  
with your questions."
09/06/2015 09:28:24PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In  
the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first  
line of page 11:
"Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and
5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the"
&nbsp    2.4 GHz frequency"
09/06/2015 09:28:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions  
now so I can forward this now."
09/06/2015 09:28:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within  
24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:29:09PM     Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says  
what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or  
2.4GHz or both."
09/06/2015 09:29:14PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic  
technical knowledge, Ewald."
09/06/2015 09:29:23PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..."
09/06/2015 09:30:12PM     Agent (Vann): "Sure."
09/06/2015 09:32:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling  
in my head."
09/06/2015 09:33:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three  
available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/
Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz,  
5GHz, or both.
I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o"
&nbsp    r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that  
the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both  
(possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me  
NOTHING about the frequency band!
In addition,
&nbsp    I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per  
channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2  
dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive  
antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH
&nbsp    ING about the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:34:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what  
you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:34:31PM     Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to  
answer by myself."
09/06/2015 09:34:57PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power  
and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix  
up in my head."
09/06/2015 09:35:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:36:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann,
I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will  
await the response from your technical expert.
I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to  
know what frequency the WiFi card operates in"
&nbsp    - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1  
or 2x2, etc.
I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the  
FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web-
marketing team to let them know the
&nbsp    ir web pages are missing critical information).
09/06/2015 09:36:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common  
questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask  
this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are."
09/06/2015 09:37:48PM     Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer  
immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this  
number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer  
any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00  
AM -"
&nbsp    10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM ?  
10PM MT.
09/06/2015 09:38:34PM     Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any  
answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP  
source."
09/06/2015 09:38:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I only got the information  
provided earlier from my research."
09/06/2015 09:39:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday  
(and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so  
I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:39:29PM     Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer  
to this address ewvesb@gilltaylor.ca."
09/06/2015 09:40:11PM     Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I  
am checking earlier with the upper management what services or  
departments will be open tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:40:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email  
within 24-48hrs."
09/06/2015 09:42:03PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I  
just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering  
the laptop on the web. I will await your email."
09/06/2015 09:42:16PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand."
09/06/2015 09:42:26PM     Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make  
things certain in your purchase."
09/06/2015 09:42:41PM     Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further  
assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?"
09/06/2015 09:43:17PM     Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will  
await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then  
I will also try to call them."
09/06/2015 09:43:46PM     Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end  
this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns."
09/06/2015 09:43:52PM     Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India,  
so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!"
09/06/2015 09:43:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Ciao,"
09/06/2015 09:44:07PM     Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further  
research on this on my own to learn from it."
09/06/2015 09:44:14PM     Agent (Vann): "You too."
09/06/2015 09:44:19PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today."
09/06/2015 09:44:25PM     Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat  
experienced."
09/06/2015 09:44:28PM     Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us  
with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our  
products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific,  
Monday- Sunday."
09/06/2015 09:44:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We  
appreciate your business."
09/06/2015 09:44:34PM     Session Ended
If you require further assistance, you may contact us at  
myhpsales@hp.coThis is an automated email sent from the HP Home & Home  
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Please save the log for your records.
Your session ID for this incident is 1938843.
Time     Details
09/06/2015 08:15:30PM     System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the  
United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address  
that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed."
09/06/2015 08:15:32PM     System: "If you are looking for HP product  
support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/
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09/06/2015 08:15:34PM     System: "If you still need US sales or ordering  
assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be  
with you shortly."
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Session Started with Agent (Paige M)
09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with  
dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-
Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html"
09/06/2015 08:16:14PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the  
hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige.  
I've read your question and am ready to assist you."
09/06/2015 08:16:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if  
the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be  
glad to check on this for you."
09/06/2015 08:17:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M."
09/06/2015 08:17:45PM     Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z  
laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and  
5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't  
say!"
09/06/2015 08:18:04PM     Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:"
09/06/2015 08:18:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/
ConfigureView?
storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&catEntryId=998656&quantity=1&color=Natural
+silver"
09/06/2015 08:18:42PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me  
go and check it."
09/06/2015 08:20:08PM     Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options  
for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!

802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price
802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00
Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00"
09/06/2015 08:21:45PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience."
09/06/2015 08:23:06PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?"
09/06/2015 08:23:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and  
Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R)  
[1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz."
09/06/2015 08:24:38PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the  
unit but not in the shipping."
09/06/2015 08:25:37PM     Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though,  
it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your  
concern."
09/06/2015 08:25:49PM     Agent (Paige M): "I?ve checked all of my  
resources and I'm still unable to validate this."
09/06/2015 08:25:54PM     Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP  
expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that  
you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain,  
Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM ? 10PM MT."
09/06/2015 08:26:21PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4  
GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have  
NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are  
you sure about those specs? Th"
&nbsp    ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well.
09/06/2015 08:27:27PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige,
Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)"
09/06/2015 08:28:40PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you  
can try calling."
09/06/2015 08:29:16PM     Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions  
if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still."
09/06/2015 08:29:31PM     Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can  
assist you with today?"
09/06/2015 08:30:29PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige
This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is  
SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question.  
The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I  
can speak with? This is not a dif"
&nbsp    ficult question.
09/06/2015 08:32:30PM     Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?"
09/06/2015 08:33:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "?"
09/06/2015 08:33:31PM     Agent (Vann): "Hi!"
09/06/2015 08:35:14PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Thank you for trying to help me.
I am asking a simple question.
Do you need me to repeat the question?"
09/06/2015 08:36:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?"
09/06/2015 08:36:47PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here."
09/06/2015 08:36:53PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait."
09/06/2015 08:37:02PM     Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session  
with Paige."
09/06/2015 08:40:18PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat  
anything.
Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether  
the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz  
bands.
Also, since"
&nbsp    that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the  
answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is  
correct, or not.
Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic  
(and these are EXTREMELY BASIC
&nbsp    questions) computer questions.
09/06/2015 08:41:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have  
questions, Ewald."
09/06/2015 08:41:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the  
information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these  
questions."
09/06/2015 08:41:47PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know  
that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just  
get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)."
09/06/2015 08:41:54PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website  
product information is very limited."
09/06/2015 08:43:31PM     Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and  
that is for free."
09/06/2015 08:44:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the  
product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip  
code and state."
09/06/2015 08:45:12PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item  
will be shipped and that the shipping is free.
Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available  
for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both."
09/06/2015 08:45:30PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on  
that."
09/06/2015 08:46:04PM     Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources  
are very limited to answer your question."
09/06/2015 08:46:16PM     Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent  
referred you to our product expert."
09/06/2015 08:46:25PM     Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and  
I will this to you."
09/06/2015 08:46:28PM     Agent (Vann): "*answer."
09/06/2015 08:46:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes  
of your time."
09/06/2015 08:46:41PM     Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here."
09/06/2015 08:47:43PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald,"
09/06/2015 08:47:46PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that."
09/06/2015 08:48:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait."
09/06/2015 08:49:00PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the  
decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/
n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card."
09/06/2015 08:49:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann"
09/06/2015 08:50:03PM     Agent (Vann): "I found more information here."
09/06/2015 08:52:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "oooPS.
Hi VAnn,
I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that  
out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only  
the "ac" card is 5GHz?"
09/06/2015 08:52:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that."
09/06/2015 08:53:17PM     Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this  
is based on something that I am not sure of."
09/06/2015 08:54:33PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi ).
Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or  
"ac" is also 5GHz."
09/06/2015 08:57:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks!"
09/06/2015 08:57:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Let me check that."
09/06/2015 08:59:32PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can  
do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at  
a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question.
My question is whether th"
&nbsp    e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz  
or both.
Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually  
an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer.
In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on
&nbsp    the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask!
09/06/2015 09:00:18PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming  
from."
09/06/2015 09:00:53PM     Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the  
marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent  
description of each wi-fi options."
09/06/2015 09:04:48PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I  
found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve  
long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore,  
I do appreciate that you are in"
&nbsp    the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that.
I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this  
laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that  
"n" can be either (just not at the same time), w
&nbsp    hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both  
at the same time).
So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to  
figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz  
bands.
09/06/2015 09:04:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood  
in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5  
Ghz."
09/06/2015 09:05:26PM     Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11  
ac 2x2 ."
09/06/2015 09:05:35PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out  
which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band."
09/06/2015 09:05:50PM     Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz."
09/06/2015 09:06:10PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:06:18PM     Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router  
has a dual band?"
09/06/2015 09:08:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac"  
card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM  
whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands.  
(I know that the "n" can make use"
&nbsp    of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not  
mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously).
But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and  
"n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o
&nbsp    nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an  
AC1750.
09/06/2015 09:14:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann
The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas  
(802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4  
does not tell me what the bands are."
09/06/2015 09:17:33PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you  
waiting."
09/06/2015 09:17:40PM     Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..."
09/06/2015 09:18:06PM     Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it  
would be better you consult our product expert."
09/06/2015 09:18:23PM     Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a  
1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/"
09/06/2015 09:19:36PM     Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated)  
transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself  
can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it  
is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is  
indicating the de"
&nbsp    dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:20:46PM     Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research  
on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work."
09/06/2015 09:21:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http://
www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac-
wifi-for-dummies.pdf"
09/06/2015 09:21:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two  
dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive.  
But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that  
they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT  
using 2 d"
&nbsp    ifferent frequencies.
09/06/2015 09:22:07PM     Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..."
09/06/2015 09:22:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..."
09/06/2015 09:24:08PM     Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums."
09/06/2015 09:24:09PM     Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/
Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to-
find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523"
09/06/2015 09:24:31PM     Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed  
as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n."
09/06/2015 09:25:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10  
of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim):
"In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan
-
dards, the number of send and receive antennas and
stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o"
&nbsp    ne antenna
supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup
-
porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares
the performance of antenna and stream configurations
in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards"
09/06/2015 09:25:31PM     Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of  
antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency."
09/06/2015 09:26:15PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this  
to our product expert and I shall email you the answer."
09/06/2015 09:26:38PM     Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our  
time and this is something that I cannot confirm."
09/06/2015 09:26:44PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn,
An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band.  
That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the  
question if the spec simply said what it should say!"
09/06/2015 09:26:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want  
to get the answer of this."
09/06/2015 09:28:23PM     Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert  
with your questions."
09/06/2015 09:28:24PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann,
If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In  
the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first  
line of page 11:
"Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and
5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the"
&nbsp    2.4 GHz frequency"
09/06/2015 09:28:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions  
now so I can forward this now."
09/06/2015 09:28:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within  
24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:29:09PM     Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says  
what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or  
2.4GHz or both."
09/06/2015 09:29:14PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic  
technical knowledge, Ewald."
09/06/2015 09:29:23PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..."
09/06/2015 09:30:12PM     Agent (Vann): "Sure."
09/06/2015 09:32:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling  
in my head."
09/06/2015 09:33:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three  
available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/
Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz,  
5GHz, or both.
I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o"
&nbsp    r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that  
the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both  
(possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me  
NOTHING about the frequency band!
In addition,
&nbsp    I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per  
channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2  
dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive  
antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH
&nbsp    ING about the frequency band!
09/06/2015 09:34:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what  
you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert."
09/06/2015 09:34:31PM     Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to  
answer by myself."
09/06/2015 09:34:57PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power  
and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix  
up in my head."
09/06/2015 09:35:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error."
09/06/2015 09:36:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann,
I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will  
await the response from your technical expert.
I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to  
know what frequency the WiFi card operates in"
&nbsp    - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1  
or 2x2, etc.
I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the  
FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web-
marketing team to let them know the
&nbsp    ir web pages are missing critical information).
09/06/2015 09:36:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common  
questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask  
this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are."
09/06/2015 09:37:48PM     Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer  
immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this  
number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer  
any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00  
AM -"
&nbsp    10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM ?  
10PM MT.
09/06/2015 09:38:34PM     Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any  
answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP  
source."
09/06/2015 09:38:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I only got the information  
provided earlier from my research."
09/06/2015 09:39:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann,
Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday  
(and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so  
I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:39:29PM     Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer  
to this address ewvesb@gilltaylor.ca."
09/06/2015 09:40:11PM     Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I  
am checking earlier with the upper management what services or  
departments will be open tomorrow."
09/06/2015 09:40:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email  
within 24-48hrs."
09/06/2015 09:42:03PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I  
just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering  
the laptop on the web. I will await your email."
09/06/2015 09:42:16PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand."
09/06/2015 09:42:26PM     Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make  
things certain in your purchase."
09/06/2015 09:42:41PM     Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further  
assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?"
09/06/2015 09:43:17PM     Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will  
await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then  
I will also try to call them."
09/06/2015 09:43:46PM     Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end  
this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns."
09/06/2015 09:43:52PM     Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India,  
so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!"
09/06/2015 09:43:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Ciao,"
09/06/2015 09:44:07PM     Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further  
research on this on my own to learn from it."
09/06/2015 09:44:14PM     Agent (Vann): "You too."
09/06/2015 09:44:19PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today."
09/06/2015 09:44:25PM     Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat  
experienced."
09/06/2015 09:44:28PM     Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us  
with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our  
products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific,  
Monday- Sunday."
09/06/2015 09:44:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We  
appreciate your business."
09/06/2015 09:44:34PM     Session Ended
If you require further assistance, you may contact us at myhpsales@hp.comm


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


Quoted text here. Click to load it

It tells me that HP marketing is clueless.  The assumption is that
anything that does "ac" will also do the lesser protocol of "a". Since
"ac" only works on 5GHz, and nobody today makes a 5GHz only radio,
it's a fair assumption that anything with "ac" will be dual band.
However, that's an assumption.  I tried to find the Intel card used in
the 15z and failed.  You'll probably have to ask HP pre-sales, this I
predict will be clueless.  You might try the HP support forums.
<http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Laptop-and-Notebook-Computers/ct-p/Notebook

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 04:50:53 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

Quoted text here. Click to load it

See my post of a few seconds ago where I reported the results of three  
sets of phone calls to HP today.

I have asked Jeff to clarify what they told me, but here's the scoop.

In the end, they said, that the "ac" card was backwards compatible, so,  
that meant that the ac card contained *both* frequencies, but the caveat  
was that the "ac" card was *not* dual band.

When I asked them to clarify, they said it doesn't work on both  
frequencies at the same time.

What does that really mean?
Is having two bands dual band, or not?


Re: How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?


Quoted text here. Click to load it


I just hate it when you ask consistently good questions.  I feel
obligated to answer when I would rather roll over and die from
spending most of the Labor Day holiday running wires under a house.
I'm getting too old for this kind of work.

Operating on both frequencies at the same time is called "simultaneous
dual band".  This is commonly found in wireless routers and wireless
access points, but not in wireless client radios, like the one in your
prospective HP laptop.  The wireless router needs simultaneous dual
band because it might have two different users, connected at the same
time, each on a different band.  Were the radio NOT simultaneous dual
band, the traffic bandwidth would be roughly cut in half because the
wireless router radio would need to switch back and forth between the
two users.  However, with simultaneous dual band, it could service
both users at the same time without any loss of bandwidth.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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