Houseboat repeater

I'm learning that it is very easy to fabricate such a reflector, but if I want a significantly taller antenna, it will probably cost more than the repeater did.

I'm also reading some criticisms directed at the imprecision of amateur DIY antenna fabrications.

I've tried reflectors with stock 2dbi omnis and with a 7 dbi omni (longer, as you say) it seemed to work just as well or better with the 2dbi. Just make a reflector:

Part of the issue using a reflector on a repeater will be get line of sight to the central antenna as well to the local area you wish to cover. Make it work, possibly, by siting the device at the far end of the house from the central antenna to cover the house as well.

I don't know how reliable the AirLink repeater you intend to use or if it will handle the requisite WPA security. I would be going for a DD- WRT powered router (google) as the repeater bridge mode is now working well with WPA on V24.

A better option would be to use two devices. Put one up high outside (in a weatherproof antenna box) as a client and ethernet cable it to an AP inside the house for local coverage.

For the exterior device, I'd be thinking about your Airlink in a rootenna box or else a Nanostation Loco (or one of the other variations). Google 'em.

Cheers, Steve

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 23:47:39 -0800, "Mike Easter" wrote in :

See Wi-Fi on a Boat at

Nice site; lotsa stuff there -- somehow I missed it in my searches. Thanks.

I'm looking around your wiki for something on repeaters, but it is in the ToDo condition.

I think he is going to be able to get by without anything outside. This houseboat doesn't even have a motor; it is always going to be at the dock. It is possible that its 'slip' may be changed to one which is slightly nearer or slightly further away from the signal in the future.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:13:08 -0800, "Mike Easter" wrote in :

Probably because we try to avoid repeaters if possible -- repeaters generate wireless pollution, cut speed in half, generally won't work with a directional antenna, and can be incompatible with security -- which is why Wi-Fi on a Boat recommends a wireless client bridge back-to-back to a wireless access point.

Your idea of using a reflector with the antenna on the repeater is a potential problem, because it will create a signal shadow behind the reflector. It might still work with proper positioning, but I would first just try a high-gain omni. Even then it would be good to keep the laptop at least several feet from the repeater to avoid signal overload.

I understand that concept.

I would like to understand that.

I understand that concept.

I don't think I understand that part.

At one point I considered buying two of those AP431W because it was so cheap and allegedly so multipurpose.

It turns out the topography is to put the signal to the east. Orient the (mobilehome) houseboat east-west with glass doubledoor sliders on the east end and/but the west end being the living room, deck (porch), and most commonly used general area for the LT.

My current thinking is placement of the AP431W at the east end with a taller antenna and put two reflectors as illustrated; one at the top aimed at the east source and one lower aimed at the west end of the houseboat. I'm understanding that the manufactured houseboat roof is metal. Maybe the whole exterior is metal, like a motorhome.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:50:21 -0800, "Mike Easter" wrote in :

Be rebroadcasting everything they double wireless traffic, thereby cutting throughput in half. It probably won't matter for your friend for Internet access, but it might well impact others on wireless, making your friend not a good neighbor.

Many repeaters don't support WPA.

Most wireless routers will _not_ work as client bridges.

I'm not a radio expert, but my guess is that your double reflectors will make a mess of the signal. Even in theory it doesn't make sense to me. I think a high-gain omni is a much better bet.

Thanks for your help and information.

The AP431W does support WPA and it does claim to configure as a repeater, but I haven't yet explored its /actual/ configurability to determine if the WPA is available in that mode.

I don't know much of anything about bridges at this stage except that the AP431W claims to (also) be able to be one or two different types of bridges, a WDS bridge or a WDS with AP. But I don't know enough about bridges to understand that yet. I can look at the graphic for that mode, but that isn't the same as comprehending.

I'm definitely headed in that direction. The higher gain - taller/better - omni antenna is the first enhancement on my list. Maybe that's all that would be needed, and one could easily create/fabricate experimental reflectors to trial compare.

Since I've been reading about these little homemade reflectors, my access point here at home would lend itself to experimenting with that effect on an ordinary little omni antenna.

I noticed that your website mentioned hawking and linksys as sources for omni antennas. I see the linksys HGA7S as a higher gain/ taller omni. I'm assuming that there aren't signal related incompatibilities between one little omni type and some other bigger omni type if the connector is the same.

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:41:31 -0800, "Mike Easter" wrote in :

WDS = repeater, not client (Ethernet) bridge

One reflector = good Two reflectors pointing in different direction = bad (I think)

Lots of other folks too.

Correct. Keep the cable as short as possible to avoid big signal loss.

Have you considered a rather cheap (but not free) alternative? in my RV (probably similar to the houseboat) I got a wap/router at walmart (linksys wrt54g) and have it in the rv to provide a good signal thruout the RV, and directional antennas to the wap/router.. When in an RV park/near a hotspot etc just repeat the signal nearby/from the clubhouse (or when home, just plug into my wired network)

I don't have a picture of what you are talking about there.

My real life experiences in this wireless business have been limited to a wired/wireless router which is putting out a signal which I catch with nearby PCI wireless cards, which later expanded to a wired access point so that the wireless cards could be more remote from the router.

This business of trying to acquire a wireless signal and then 'move it over' to somewhere else is foreign to me. I don't have an idea yet of how you can put a directional antenna somewhere 'outside over yonder' and bring its signal 'inside here' to a centrally located place as you would want a wireless router. I tho't these antenna connxns were supposed to be short.

This mobile home isn't really quite the same as an RV. I guess it must be about 60 feet long with a narrow hallway which passes between its two 'halves' on one end, meaning a number of walls that have to be penetrated if you were going to move a signal acquired on one end to be distributed in the general area of the other end.

I'm also hearing that it is very common for mobile home type construction to be lined with foil type insulation. Also, these mobile home houseboats are 'lined up' at the dock/s, with a space for a gangplank walkway in between them, so if their outside walls don't penetrate well, then there is a wall 60 feet thick and say 10 feet tall and a couple of hundred feet long between the signal side and the lake side (the other end of a houseboat) where the laptopper likes to hang out.

The way you "move it over" as you say, is done by ethernet cable, which easily goes over 100 meters with zero loss. You locate your client outside, under an eave or inside at a window pointing to the source antenna/clubhouse etc. The client adapter, also known as a wireless ethernet bridge converts the radio signal to ethernet. You then run your cable whereever you want and feed that ethernet to a cheap AP (like your Airling) which turns it back into a radio signal that is optimally aimed for your local user areas on a different channel.

It's really pretty easy to setup and by not trying to talk in two directions with one radio and one antenna, you bypass several issues.

In effect, you are fabricating a two radio repeater instead of a single radio repeater. Being on a different channel reduces interference issues.

Single radio repeaters, usually working in WDS (Wireless Distribution System- a special mode that allows devices to form a mesh, I guess- I'm not clear myself, but it's a special mode with it's own standard) WILL work, but have trouble working with WPA wireless security. Even when they do work, they tend to be flaky and need to be restarted to synchronize again, when using WPA.

The exception is the DD-WRT firmware (perhaps others) that offer a NON- WDS repeating mode as well as WDS. The NON-WDS works and I have one linksys running in that mode on our local network now. I only use it for one person and he is at a distance from the rest of the clients.

It's not easy to understand, but there are at least three ways to securely pass a signal from outside to inside:

1) Single radio, WPA (typical, but no decent reliable security, thruput cut in half, same channel) 2) Single radio repeater bridge mode (DD-WRT style - which does work reliably in WPA, thruput halved still, same channel still) 3) Two radio (or back to back) repeaters made of client and AP radios connected by cable (All security possible, no loss of thruput, different channel)

Back to your antenna for connecting to the clubhouse as they say. If you are dedicating a device as a client only, then I wonder if a high gain omni might cause problems due to a narrow beamwidth and even a slightly rocking boat at the distance you specified. It would be cheaper and make more sense ( to me) to use a 10-12 panel antenna with a wide vertical (as well as H) beam.

The reflectors mentioned will effectivly turn a stock omni into a panel antenna type pattern and work well with stock antennas. These reflectors seem to be reliably easy to fabricate and are not subject to the amateur antenna builder errors that you refer to. I would consider one if the client bridge device was to be located inside a window instead of outside.

It's really pretty easy. Get a client adapter/bridge. Put it in the window facing the clubhouse with a reflector on it. Cable it to a cheap AP and locate that where you get good coverage in the trailer home. If reception is still not good enough on the client, then buy a

14-19 dbi panel antenna and put it on the client instead of the reflector/omni combo.

Steve

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:32:09 -0500, "Peter Pan" wrote in :

How exactly do you do that? Two antennas?

Just to add a little more flavoring to the mix; these houseboats are all equipped with cable TV, but I don't exactly know how it works. It may be that the facility has a sat dish and some kind of distribution system that it distributes the satellite signal to all of the houseboats.

My friend and his pals who are paying HOA homeownersassoc dues for the amenities are wanting some answers and improvements. Apparently almost all of the LTs laptops (he has talked to about 10 owners) have signal strength problems, not just the Dell, and/but one Mac LT does OK.

Does it seem possible that the internet connectivity and the cable/sat TV signal could be distributed over the same cable? My cableco doesn't have any problem doing that.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:25:03 -0800, "Mike Easter" wrote in :

Typical marina systems are coax to all slips from a central distribution amp, usually hooked up to cable or DBS.

Yes. See

A Bit more info, my home was a trailer in northern idaho (60 ft long, ice peirs, septic tank etc., with a steel snow roof, and foil backed insulation on/in the outside walls(not the inside) so no wireless or cellphone signals thru it), the RV was a fleetwood MH (not good in the 42 inches of snow we had most winters, very thin walls and no insulation, so it was lighter for travel) had a wap/router inside the main house/big trailer, and another one inside the rv, when home, parked the MH by the big trailer and connected by cat5 cable to the one in the house/avoiding the hassle of wireless... When out and about had a wap/router in the mh, (linksys wrt54g has removable antenna, just the antenna part was outside/on the roof of the rv (actually mounted on the tv antenna mast so i could turn it)... point is I had a wap/router inside the RV, and used a "bridge" to anything outside (whether it be a cable/antennas/powerline links/etc), you could always connect to the local wap/router from inside the rv or trailer, and then it's only one connection from the local wap to whatever provides the signal sat/cable/dsl/wireless/etc)...

Depends on the situation, the linksys wrt54g (not the gs) was only $44 at walmart, by having one inside, it always gives a good signal/connection.... In some cases i use another wap/router as a bridge/powerline/sat/cat 5 cable etc to give it input... I would think that an RV like a boat/waves you never know what/where the source will be, so I look at maximizing what I can control, and take whatever signal I can get to it....

The fastest consumer connection i have ever seen (so far) is a 20mBPS fios, so about half of 54 (more like 21 actual) when using a repeater is still gonna be faster than the internet source, so if you aren't transferring between machines, why would faster than that be needed?

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:53:53 -0500, "Peter Pan" wrote in :

That sounds like a wireless Ethernet client bridge cabled to a wireless access point (or router) -- just connecting two routers back to back won't work -- a wireless Ethernet client bridge is needed to connect to the remote wireless. This is covered in the wiki I posted way back at the beginning of this thread.

you mean i need a wireless bridge (instead of a cat 5 cable) to connect it to powerline/sat/cat 5/dsl/cable etc to give it input.... oh nooooooo! :)