help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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cannot open a web page...

the computer is cat5 wired to a lan port on the alfa
wireless router. the alfa wireless router is connected, over
the air, to a netgear wap (wireless access point). the
netgear wap is wired to a zyxel router that is wired to a
microwave radio. radio and zyxel router are provided by the isp.

the alfa router status display (in a browser running on the
computer) shows the alfa router is "connected" to the
netgear wap. the status screen displays the netgear wap's ssid.

everything appears correct but the browser on the computer
cannot resolve a url. there is always a timout. if the
computer's built-in wireless adapter connects to the netgear
wap, no internet access problem.

i'm guessing there is some setting in the alfa aip-w610h
router that is being overlooked. any suggestions as to what
it might be?

fixed ip addresses are used throughout the network for this
testing. security is disabled. anti-virus and firewall are
disabled.

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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Then the alga wireless router must actually be a wireless Ethernet
*client* bridge -- a true wireless router or access point cannot connect
as a client to a wireless router or access point.

Run the following in a CMD window on the computer, and paste the *exact*
result here:

   IPCONFIG /ALL

My own current output:

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We can see from this that DHCP worked properly, giving my computer a
private IP Address, proper Subnet Mack, Gateway address, and DNS server
address, plus of course the address of the DHCP Server.

Any special reason you're keeping all the hardware models secret?  
Makes it much harder to help you.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
John Navas wrote:
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John -- thanks for offering to help. here's what you asked
for, and then some.

.....................

C:\\Documents and Settings\\D>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

         Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : e1705
         Primary Dns Suffix  . . . . . . . :
         Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
         IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
         WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 440x
10/100 Integrated Controller
         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-18-8B-DA-71-1A
         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.2
         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\Documents and Settings\\D>

...........................

the alfa manual title is "High-Power 400mW 802.11b/g Router
AIP-610H." i agree with you that it is a wireless ethernet
bridge (that can be configured as a router). the specs
suggest it is hard to dream up a configuration that it
cannot be set to. for the sake of conversation allow me to
call it a "bridge."

the alfa user manual is explicit about the bridge ip address
= 192.168.2.1 and in order for the computer to "talk" to the
bridge, the computer ip address must be 192.168.2.2. there
is a warning that nothing other than these values will work.

here are the alfa status page values:

System
AP Alias Name     
Uptime                         0day:0h:2m:20s
Firmware Version         v6.1-en
Wireless
Mode                         Infrastructure Client
Band                         2.4 GHz (G)
SSID                         NETGEAR
Channel Number                 6
Encryption                 Disabled
BSSID                         00:14:6c:ff:42:4a
State                         Connected
Current Tx Rate         11 Mbps
TCP/IP Configuration
Attain IP Protocol         Fixed IP
IP Address                 192.168.2.1
Subnet Mask                 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway         192.168.2.1
MAC Address                 00:c0:ca:18:8b:19
WAN Configuration
Attain IP Protocol         Fixed IP
IP Address                 172.1.1.1
Subnet Mask                 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway         172.1.1.254
MAC Address                 00:c0:ca:18:8b:1b
Traffic Control
Interface Control         Disabled
IP Control                 Disabled
MAC Control                 Disabled
Traffic Control Firewall    Disabled
DHCP Settings
DHCP Server                 Enabled

the reason for keeping the hardware models secret is because
i lack experience with this type of posting.

microwave radio model unknown
    |
zyxel prestige 334 router
    |
netgear wpn802v2 wireless access point
    |
alfa aip-w620h bridge
    |
dell inspiron e1705

i should mention the e1705 internal wireless adapter works
as expected with the netgear wireless access point; no
problem accessing the web. the netgear wireless access point
has been pushbutton reset to factory settings: no security
encryption or filtering.

the alfa bridge fails with a wireless access point other
than the netgear. further, a zyxel wireless ethernet adapter
g-470 works as expected with both the netgear and the other
wireless access point. the latter access point hardware
model is unknown; it is some distance away. the netgear
wireless access point is ten feet from the e1705.

noting is connected to the alfa bridge's wan port.

--david (neophyte networker)

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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Bad -- you have it configured manually and incompletely.  You should
probably reconfigure it for DHCP, and make sure it gets configured
properly by your DHCP server.  Or make sure the manual configuration is
complete and correct.

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That's probably not entirely correct, and just advice on how to connect
to the configuration page in the client bridge.  Once that is done, the
bridge should be transparent, and you should be able to switch to DHCP
and get configured by the DHCP server in your Zyxel router.

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You'll want to turn on WPA PSK with a strong passphrase once you get
everything working.

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DHCP should be disabled in a wireless Ethernet client bridge.

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Thanks.  That helps.

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OK.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
john --

using the e1705 wireless adapter, i get the following display from an 'ipconfig
/all'

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection:

         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG
Network Connection
         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-1B-77-60-49-2A
         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
         Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.35
         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
         DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
         DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 64.118.98.90
                                             64.118.98.89
         Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, January 09, 2009 7:02:45 PM
         Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 12, 2009 7:02:45 PM

since the wireless access point has no such numbers built into it and its dhcp
is disabled, i'm assuming these ip addresses are coming from the isp via the
zyxel router. this connection works!

the alfa bridge status screen shows the alfa bridge is "connected" to the
netgear wireless access point and the e1705 local area connection is set to get
the ip addresses via dhcp. this is what the e1705 sees:

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

         Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
         Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated
Controller
         Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-18-8B-DA-71-1A
         Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
         Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
         IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.2
         Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
         Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
         DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
         DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.2.1
         Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, January 09, 2009 7:09:56 PM
         Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, January 19, 2009 7:09:56 PM

the .2. ip addresses appear to come from the alfa bridge in spite of the
bridge's dhcp being disabled. this connection does not work!

the alfa bridge status screen includes:

TCP/IP Configuration
Attain IP Protocol        Fixed IP
IP Address                192.168.2.1
Subnet Mask               255.255.255.0
Default Gateway           0.0.0.0

the alfa bridge wan port is empty but i set it up to get ip from dhcp server.
status screen:

WAN Configuration
Attain IP Protocol      Getting IP from DHCP server...
IP Address              172.1.1.1
Subnet Mask             255.255.255.0
Default Gateway         172.1.1.254

these ip addresses are the factory defaults, which indicates to me the wan
interface is doing nothing to get an ip address from a dhcp server via the
radio. this does not work.

i tried using the e1705 wireless adapter ip addresses, obtained via dhcp, in the
e1705 lan settings and that didn't work.

this is really confusing... no setting results in the e1705 "seeing" the
internet through the alfa bridge and no bridge setting results in the e1705
getting an ip address from the isp's zyxel router.

the desired alfa bridge transparency is elusive. there must be some setting
overlooked. what am i doing wrong?

--david

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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That means valid addresses must be in the 192.168.1.nnn block.

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I'm guessing the Zyxel _router_ is handing them out.

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Not surprising, because it's not in the 192.168.1.nnn block.  Looks like
it's still working as a DHCP server and router.

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That's not helpful for anything other than configuring the alfa.

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It looks like you still have the alfa configured as a wireless router,
not a wireless Ethernet client bridge.

Are you sure you have the correct model number?  
I can't find it on the ALFA webpile or anywhere else on the Internet.  

The closest thing I can find is the AIP-W610
<http://dplanet.biz/alfa.com/product_info.php?cPath=159_33_139&products_id=367

According to the manual, the AIP-W610 does *not* support operation as a
wireless Ethernet *client* bridge -- the "bridge" option is still a
*host* mode.  

I suspect your unit has the same limitation, and that what you're trying
to do will *not* work.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
On 10/01/2009 19:42, John Navas wrote:
John the manual is available here:-
http://dplanet.biz/alfa.com/images/AIP-W610H%20user%20manual-200704.pdf

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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I know.  I checked it.  But that's the 610, not the mysterious 620.  ;)

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
On 10/01/2009 20:12, John Navas wrote:
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620? All the posts refer to "alfa aip-w610h"

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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"alfa aip-w620h bridge"

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
John Navas wrote:
<snip>
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it surely behaves this way. the operation-mode setup choices are gateway,
bridge, wisp client, router (wan ethernet) and router (wan wireless).
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the label on the bottom of the alfa bridge is:
    802.11g ap router
    fcc id: uq2aipw610
    model: aip-w610h
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the 'AIP-W610H user manual-200704.pdf' manual i'm using comes from
http://dplanet.biz/alfa.com/product_info.php?products_id=387

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using the aip-w6010h setup wizard, which is not mentioned in the user manual, i
chose an operation mode called "wisp client." on page 7 the user manual claims:
"in this mode, all ethernet ports are bridged together and the wireless client
will connect to isp access point. ..."
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i surely appreciate your efforts to get to the bottom of this puzzle. if you
have time to look at the 'AIP-W610H user manual-200704.pdf' and still reach the
"will not work" conclusion, i'll send the alfa back to the vendor.

i like the aip-w610h because it has receive-sensitivity and transmit-power
controls, a useful feature in our wireless environment.

--david

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
(snip)

1) Try to ping 74.125.77.103.
If you're able to do so, you know you've got network conectivity.

Then you can check out dns. Set LAN interface on your dell client to
64.118.98.90.
2) Try surfing google.com
If this works, we know dns is the problem, but we do not know it's
source, it can be either netgear wpn802v2 wireless access point or
alfa aip-w620h bridge.

Come back and tell me about your results of 1) and 2). Maybe I can
help you to get the most elegant/dynamical setup.

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
Chrisjoy wrote:
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yesterday's reply to this failed to post. so here's another attempt...

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this produces four "request timed out" messages.

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entering this ip address causes the subnet mask to be set to 255.0.0.0 instead
of the usual 255.255.255.0 and the surf-gogle attempt yields "Firefox can't find
the server at www.google.com"

same result with subnet mask 255.255.255.0

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if the current state of things changes, i'll be overjoyed to describe it as an
"elegant/dynamical setup." :=)

on thing has changed since testing began. when the dell 'ethernet adapter local
area connection' is enabled with 'obtain ip address automatically', the time to
get the address has substantially increased. it used to take about five seconds
to get an ip address 192.168.2.nnn, an alfa bridge address i think, and it now
takes about a minute. the dell now gets:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom 440x 10/100 Integrated Controller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-18-8B-DA-71-1A
Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.1.38
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 169.254.1.38

i wonder which which dhcp server is providing this?
--david

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
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Then we can conclude you got no network connectivity. You told us that
this is only a problem when you add the last box in the path. Let us
call this box C, and the box closer to the net for B. For C to forward
packets to B, it needs IP on LAN side, IP on WAN side, subnet mask on
both, defalt gateway and at least one dns IP, OR it needs to be
transparent running as a dumb bridge. When running as a bridge, it
cannot filter any traffic, specially not DHCP and arp. Not in either
way. Other than that, WAN side must point to internet and LAN away
from internet using cables or wirless. Log into the box and look if
the box got necessary info. If ran as a bridge, you need to give
yourself (dell) a static IP in the subnet of the bridge connecting to
it's IP. If box are running as a router, you can connct to the dell's
default gateway, as this would be the box C if C is running a DHCP
server. A part of a reasonable troubleshoot you may want to put box C
in router mode, to see if it's working as such.

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This should be used as your primary dns IP address and not as the IP
on the interface, but it doesn't matter you misunderstood this, cause
this was only meaningful if you were able to ping that google.com IP.

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I think we need some time to get there.

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Non. 169.254.*.* addresses are default randomized IP addresses when a
dhcp client does not get connected to DHCP server and got no fresh
lease.

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
Chrisjoy -- thank you very much for the help with this alfa networking problem.
the solution turns out to be setting the alfa operating mode to 'bridge',
wireless basic settings mode: client. connect to the access point. change the
dell network properties back to 'obtain ip address automatically'. this message
is posted through the alfa bridge. thanks again for your help. -- david

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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WISP Client sounds like _client router_ mode, _not_ wireless Ethernet
_client bridge_, using NAT and its own DHCP server to connect multiple
clients to a single WISP address, rather than depending on the WISP to
hand out multiple addresses through a wireless Ethernet client bridge.

That's not as clean as a wireless Ethernet client bridge, since you'll
be doing "double NAT" (one in the ALFA and one in the ZyXEL), which can
interfere with certain things (VPN, gaming, etc), but it should still
work.

As a WISP Client router, the ALFA needs to use DHCP to get its own
network address from the WISP (the ZyXEL wired router in your case).  In
other words, when the ALFA is properly connected to your wireless you
should see essentially the same WAN information in the ALFA as you see
in your e1705 when it's connected to your wireless.

Thus your first job is to verify the mode of the ALFA, and connectivity
from the ALFA to the ZyXEL.  See if it has a 'ping' tool.

The different netblock client addresses being handed out by the ALFA
should be fine if it's in router mode and acting as a proper NAT
gateway.

p.s. If you want my help, please don't get sidetracked with someone
else, because that can easily lead to confusion and wasted time. Thanks.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
John Navas wrote:
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i've tried seemingly endless combinations of settings in wisp client mode and
most other modes, including 'bridge' and 'router (wan wireless)'. when the alfa
status page shows "connected" i cannot ping any address other than the alfa's
address: 198.162.2.1

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nothing appears in the ip address list when the wan configuration is set to get
an ip from the dhcp. here's the wan part of the alfa status page:

WAN Configuration
Attain IP Protocol     Getting IP from DHCP server...
IP Address         0.0.0.0
Subnet Mask         0.0.0.0
Default Gateway     0.0.0.0
MAC Address         00:c0:ca:18:8b:1a

i never see, anywhere in the alfa status page, an ip address that appears to
have come from a dhcp server.
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if you have a few minutes to look at the rather poorly written manual, i'd
appreciate your help choosing the appropriate mode:

the 'AIP-W610H user manual-200704.pdf' manual i'm using comes from
http://dplanet.biz/alfa.com/product_info.php?products_id=387

there's no ping tool in the alfa that i can find, except on the last page of the
manual there's a reference to ping capability if one uses a script. i don't see
how this will help us.
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no problem. i'm glad to get some coaching in how to do all this.

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup

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VALID 'OPERATION MODE' OPTIONS FOR YOU (BEST FIRST);

(1) Bridge
The wired Ethernet and wireless NIC are bridged together. Once the mode
is selected, all the WAN related functions will be disabled.
->CLIENT BRIDGE

(2) Router (WAN Wireless)
The device is supposed to connect to Internet via Wireless port and it
will act as router. NAT system will be disabled.
->ROUTER, CLIENTS MUST BE CONFIGURED MANUALLY FOR THE ALFA.

(3) WISP (Wireless ISP)
This mode can let you access the AP of your wireless ISP and share the
same public IP address form your ISP to the PCs connecting with the
wired Ethernet port of the device. To use this mode, first you must set
the wireless radio to be client mode and connect to the AP of your ISP
then you can configure the WAN IP configuration to meet your ISP
requirement.
->ROUTER + DHCP WITH DOUBLE NAT

IN ALL CASES:
* WIRELESS RADIO MUST BE ON
* RADIO MUST BE IN 'CLIENT' MODE.
* USE THE 'SITE SURVEY' PAGE TO FIND YOUR WIRELESS NETWORK AND CONNECT
Make sure all security for your wireless network is OFF when trying to
connect.  Turn on security (WPA) after everything is working.

Start by trying (1):
(a) Get ALFA connected to your wireless network
(b) See if DHCP works for wired clients of the ALFA.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:26:41 -0800, John Navas

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You'll probably need manual configuration of both ALFA and wired ALFA
client on 192.168.2.nnn netblock to do this.

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You'll need to change configuration of wired ALFA client to DHCP.

--
Best regards,   FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us
John            FAQ for Wi-Fi:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi
           Wi-Fi How To:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems:  <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes

Re: help wanted - alfa aip-w610h router/bridge setup
John Navas wrote:
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victory in bridge mode!
this reply is posted through the alfa bridge.

Mr. Navas, i can't thank you enough for your patience and generosity while
teaching this network neophyte a lot of network terminology, useful diagnostic
principles and some newsgroup protocol.
--david

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