Dude, where's my router?

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Per the advice I received here a few weeks ago, I got myself a shiny new
wrt54gl this week and installed it yesterday.  Getting into 192.168.1.1
to change the IP address and admin password was no effort at all; I did
so and reconnected to the new IP address to continue configuration.  Next
step was to enable WEP, so I created a passphrase, clicked GENERATE to
produce four encrypted keys, and clicked Save Settings.

That was the last I was able to connect to the router.  Over the past
twelve hours I have pressed and held the RESET button dozens of times
from five seconds to thirty to sixty with no change; I have unplugged and
restarted at least as often; I have connected it via CAT5 cable to the
ethernet cards on three desktop PCs and a laptop computer.  It won't
respond on the new IP address or on 192.168.1.1.  Even stranger, after it
stopped responding it also stopped appearing on the laptop's list of
available wireless networks.

I popped the setup wizard CD into one of the desktop boxes that runs
Windows XP (the other two run various flavors of Linux) and ran that;
when it gets to the step where it verifies your hardware connection it
churns for a few minutes, then asks for the password (I tried both the
default "admin" and the new one I created) and churns for a few minutes
more before returning to the same hardware verification screen.

I would have thought that the hard reset would fix everything, but I'm
out of ideas.  Any folks here familiar enough with the wrt54g to throw a
clue at me?  I asked this on the linksys support forum and mine is the
only question asked in the past 12 hours with no replies at all.

Sigh.

--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**2 at steigerfamily.com.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Dude, where's my router?



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So much for the OBE (Out of Box Experience).  Kinda sounds dead to me.
Let's try raising the dead (beware of zombies).

Please forget about using the supplied CDROM.  It's not needed.

Are you trying to configure the router via wireless?  If so, switch to
a wired ethernet connection.  Common error is to plug it into the WAN
port.  Don't do that.  Use a LAN port for configuration.

Are you seeing the usual flashing lights when the WRT54GL is powered
on?  Duz the power light start flashing and then stay on after about 8
seconds?  Do you have a connection light to whichever LAN port you
plugged the computer into.

What happens when you try to ping 192.168.1.1 from your desktop?  If
you get an error message, what is it?  Try it this way:
1.  Power OFF the router.
2.  Ping with:
  ping -t 192.168.1.1
3.  Turn on the power.
4.  There's usually a 5 second delay, followed by successful pings.
However, if the ping responses quit after the initial success, the
firmware is trashed and needs to be reloaded.

Is the AOSS button (Cisco logo) lit and not stuck?  There was a nasty
but that would corrupt the firmware if you powered on the unit with
the button held down.  If this is the case, it should show up with a
continuously flashing power light.  If you can ping the IP address,
the firmware can be reloaded.  See the TFTP proceedure at:
<http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Installation#TFTP_Flashing_Buffalo_Routers_under_Windows
--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Dude, where's my router?


On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 09:46:27 -0700, Jeff Liebermann sez:
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Yup.  I thought it was kind of humorous that a model specifically built
for Linuxheads would come supplied with a Winduhs-only CD installation.  
I tried that because all reasonable approaches had failed :-)

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I didn't even know you could configure via wireless!  In any case, no, I
have tried these ethernet connections:
 - from Linux box (running a firewall, opened up all traffic for
192.168.1.*) ethernet card to ethernet 1, with and without cable modem
ethernet plugged into WAN hole
 - from WinXP box (firewalls disabled) to ethernet 1
 - both router's ethernet port and various desktop boxes plugged into an  
8-port ethernet switch
 - from laptop's ethernet NIC to router's ethernet 1

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Yes, for about 5 seconds.  Then the Cisco logo stays orange and the power
light stays green.

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Yes.  The WLAN and ethernet 1 light stay green, with occasional
flickering as it detects traffic.

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The ethernet 1 light blinks every few seconds, so I know the router is
receiving a ping.  The desktop clients indicate no response at all; the
WinXP client gives up after a few tries, and the Linux box just keeps
trying indefinitely until I kill the test.  At that point it says
{however many} packets transmitted, 0 packets received.

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Linux client responds "destination host unreachable"; WinXP repeats
"Request timed out."

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After I powered on, the "destination host unreachable" messages stopped
but it did not get a successful acknowledgement - it just continues in
silence as noted above.

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Isn't that what holding the reset button in for 30 seconds is supposed to
do?

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I assume you mean "nasty bug".  No, the AOSS button will flash white if I
push it and then return to orange after some time, and it turns orange
when the powerup sequence is complete.

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Installation#TFTP_Flashing_Buffalo_Routers_under_Windows>

Since it can't be pinged, what's Plan B?

Thanks for the quick response!  I hope you have more tricks up your
sleeve :-)

--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**2 at steigerfamily.com.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Dude, where's my router?



Incidentally, is this a WRT54GL v1.0 or v1.1?  Look on the serial
number tag.

Worth reading:
<http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Troubleshooting

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Well, then it's alive.  The firmware has to be working in order for
the light to work.  However, it should start with a *FLASHING* power
light, and then settle to always on.  Is that what happens?

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It's dead.  The protected area of the flash contains the TFTP server.
There's no (easy) way to kill that using firmware uploads.  You could
wipe the user area clean, and still get the TFTP server to appear for
a few seconds after initial power on.  That's all that's needed to do
a TFTP firmware upload, but apparently that's not going to happen.

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Nope.  It just resets the NVRAM setup information, otherwise known as
the settings.  It doesn't touch the firmware, which is what I think is
the problem.

Are you *SURE* you're resetting the router correctly?  I've seen far
too many creative ways of doing it, many of which don't work.  I had
one creative individual insist that he's was "pushing the reset
button".  I eventually determined he was pushing the AOSS button on
the front, instead of the reset button, on the back.  I've also raised
more than one WRT54G from the dead by simply going through the reset
ordeal process.

Try it my way:
1.  Power ON the router.  Nothing plugged into any ethernet port.
2.  Wait until the router is ready (flashing power light stops).
3.  Stomp on the reset button with a paper clip in back.  Hold it down
for 60 seconds by the clock.  That's probably 3 times longer than
necessary, but every once in a while, I run into an old firmware
version that requires such a long reset.  Old bugs tend to re-appear.
If you accidentally let go, start over at step one.
4.  After agonizing 60 seconds, remove the paper clip and do NOTHING.
The router needs to copy something from here to there and it takes a
little while longer.  My guess is another minute will do.  Get some
coffee or something.
5.  Power OFF the router.  Wait about 10 seconds.  Then power it back
ON.  Try pinging or http and see what happens.

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Maybe it's not dead.  The light and button are totally under control
of the firmware.  If you can do that, most of the firmware is
functional.  Toss a coin?

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1.  Check your assumptions.  It worked once, it should work again.
2.  Do everything (reset, ping, etc) after a small delay to clear out
any assumptions.
3.  Eliminate anything that's common in all your tests.  For example,
are you always plugging into the same router LAN port?  Are you using
the same ethernet cable?  Is there something else (switch, hub,
router, patch panel) in between your test computah and the WRT54G?
4.  Shake the box.  Anything rattle?
5.  Try one of the numerous "DeBrick" utilities.  I suggest you save
this for last resort and desperation as my luck has been dismal with
most of these.
<http://www.ranvik.net/prosjekter-privat/jtag_for_wrt54g_og_wrt54gs/
6.  If you can't return it for credit, and feel like spending a few
days of Learn By Destroying(tm), then open it up, install a JTAG
header, plug in a JTAG adapter, and attack the problem from there.
<http://wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Customizing/Hardware/JTAG_Cable
I suspect this may be more trouble than it's worth.
7.  Buy a Buffalo WHR-HP-G54, WHR-G54S, or one of the new 125Mbit/sec
replacement models.  More RAM, more flash, and generally fewer
suprises.

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Everything I do is tricky.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Dude, where's my router?



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Of course, I double check my allegations AFTER I post wrong
information.  The WHR-HPG54, WHR-G54S and most of the Buffalo Broadcom
based products have 4MBytes of flash and 16MBytes of RAM, the same as
the Linksys WRT54GL.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Dude, where's my router?


On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 12:33:04 -0700, Jeff Liebermann sez:
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Whoops!  And there I was patting myself on the back for providing every
possible environmental detail that could possibly matter.  It's a 1.1.

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I read about openwrt but I was afraid to overwrite the firmware with a
third-party replacement.  Now that I read about the "failsafe" mode, I
wish I had that available.

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I could communicate much more effectively if I remembered to throw in the
occasional subject and verb.  What I should have said was, "Yes, *the
power light flashes* for about 5 seconds."

 
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I can't blame you for being skeptical.  I'm in the support business
myself, and over 20 years I have lost count of the number of times I have
had to say "No, don't type the word SPACE (or ASTERISK or ENTER)..."  In
this case I did indeed use the button on the rear labeled "reset", but I
was holding it in with the tip of my finger which may have jiggled loose
during the 30 seconds.  Per your advice, I used a thumbtack and held it
firmly in place while the second hand made a full circle around my on-
screen clock.

I'll skip the rest of our exchange and get to the punchline (as in, I
feel so stupid about missing this, I could punch myself).  None of the
more thorough reset methods made a difference at all.  I was online with
Linksys's helpdesk chat guy and he was taking me through the same reset
steps, and he mentioned the default gateway.

All of a sudden it hit me, my LAN has static IP addresses of
192.168.169.* .  Even though I punched a hole in the firewall and added a
route specifically to 192.168.1.1, I was still on a different subnet.

Long story short (too late!) I re-coded the static IP address on one of
my PCs to 192.168.1.2, restarted the ethernet driver... and I'm back in.

That's probably how I got in the first time around, too, and I had just
forgotten that necessary step after changing the router's static IP to my
192.168.169 subnet.

Anyhoo, thanks again for giving me lots of stuff to try if this ever
happens again.  I think it's time to look into those replacement firmware
options.  Since you pointed me to openwrt is that your preference?  
wrt54g-linux sounds good because it installs in the RAM section so I
don't have to worry that I'm permanently trashing the only good copy of
the factory defaults.

--
Peter B. Steiger
Tremendously Relieved, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**2 at steigerfamily.com.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Dude, where's my router?



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Note that many manufacturers use the same product model number but
with different hardware version numbers to distinguish radically
different internal construction, usually from different vendors.  The
reason is so that the new and the old boxes look the same to the
customer and to the dealer.  This way, there is no old/new inventory
changeover hassle, where the dealer returns old inventory claiming
it's obsolete and unsellable.

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Quite old (1983 thru about 1994) but still applicable:
<http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/nooze/support.txt>

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Ouch.  That's why I posted the URL of how to do the TFTP upload.  It
included instructions for resetting the client IP address to the same
IP block as the router.  I assumed[1] that you had the test client
plugged directly into the Linksys LAN port and was getting a DHCP
assigned IP address.  I should have asked for the output of IPCONFIG
which would have shown the wrong gateway IP.

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Note that the bulk of my diagnostics revolved around watching the
flashing lights.  I sometimes take photos or video clips of how the
boxes should look when operating normally.

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No.  I prefer DD-WRT v23 SP2 (or SP3) or v24beta.  DD-WRT is far more
HTML driven than OpenWRT, which requires some file editing and command
line incantations.  Under the admin pages, they're very similar if not
identical.  For my own use, I would probably go with OpenWRT, but I
use what I inflict on my customers, which is DD-WRT.

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I haven't tried that for a while.  It was deemed unsuitable because
everything would disappear if the power failed.   Ideally, I would
like one with "pluggable" firmware (USB dongle or SD card) or perhaps
a TFTP OS boot (which I use on my thin clients).  However, there's so
little FLASH and RAM to work with in the typical WRT54G, that I'm
happy with what can be done with DD-WRT.  Incidentally, I have yet to
have any customer demand that I reinstall the original Linksys or
Buffalo firmware.

[1]  Assumption.  The mother of all screwups.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Dude, where's my router?


<big snip>
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The first line at the above url may help:

"For thoroughness, reset to factory defaults by holding the reset button
while plugging in the router. Hold for at least 30 seconds. Unplug the
router."

On a wrt54g v1.0 I know this is different than just pressing the reset
button. I dunno what the effect will be on your wrt54gl.

I have a wrt54g v1.0 that had Firmware Version: v1.02.1, Mar. 4, 2003
when I got it.
I flashed it to dd-wrt v23sp2 & it was working.

In learning my way around dd-wrt I got lost & wanted to wipe out my
changes & start over.

I used this "power-on" reset.

After the reset the wrt54g v1.0 had Linksys "V1.00.6" firmware!

Reflashing it to dd-wrt v23sp2 & it was all Ok.

kc

Re: Dude, where's my router?



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Well, it's wrong.  The way I read that quote is that one does the
reset thing for 30 seconds, and them immediately unplugs the router.
That has trashed at least two firmware loads when I did it that way.
You have to wait until the flashing lights stop (and then some) so
that the fireware is done copying something from here to there or
wherever after a reset or after a firmware upload.  My guess is about
a minute wait at least.

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Hmmm... Maybe it's something unique to the V1.0 mutation.  I have a
WRT54G v1.1 with DD-WRT v23 sp2.  I've done the grand reset several
times and it's never reverted to the Linksys firmware.  Weird...
Perhaps it's haunted?


--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Dude, where's my router?


wrote:

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It does read that way.
I always let the router finish booting before powering down.

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Tonight I couldn't duplicate this. Perhaps the original dd-wrt flash was
bad in some way? Dunno/don't care cuz it seems fine now - see below.

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Since the router in sitting here I tried various types of resets.

A normal reset needs the reset button depressed for 10 sec.
The "diag" led lights, then flashes & 30 sec. later the router is
operational.

Holding the reset button depressed while powering on & continuing to
hold the reset button depressed results in:
an initial reset at power-up & a second reset at about 35 sec (& a third
reset at about 72 seconds).

I let the router boot after both the 35 sec. & the 72 sec. interval & it
never reverted to the old Linksys OS.

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Maybe it got scared & decided to act right for a while?


Re: Dude, where's my router?


On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 04:11:06 +0000, Kim Clay sez:
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As a software support person, I have more than once suggested to a
customer that a problem which appears and disappears at random calls for
a consultation with Mulder and Scully.  You can always tell whether the
customer is over 30 - the younger ones don't recognize the names.

--
Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
If you must reply by email, you can reach me by placing zeroes
where you see stars: wypbs_**2 at steigerfamily.com.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Dude, where's my router?



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Submit it to:
"The Journal of Irreproducible Results "
<http://www.jir.com
Note:  You have to be somewhat of a research scientist in order to
appreciate the magazine.

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You didn't try the method I used to trash the firmware.  Punch the
AOSS button on the front during initial bootup.  It messed up the
flash on a WRT54G v3.0 twice when I tried it.  I don't recall the
exact version but I thing it was one of the beta versions between v23
SP1 and SP2.

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Dunno.  My standard cure is to submit burnt offerings to the computah
gods.  That's usually an old 386 motherboard on the hibachi.  Things
usually start to work well after that.  If not, human sacrifice is
always a temptation, but then the customer wouldn't be able to pay me
for the repair.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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