Does this PDF show where the IMEI number is stored in the SIM card?

I have the ability to read every parameter on a simcard. Which parameter restricts the phone to 2G?

No 3G sata (or calls). Older SIM's do not have the abilityt to configure on

OTOH they can still get data using GPRS or EDGE.

Well it won't be able to connect via 3G.

Unsurprising.

Rubbish it is part of registration when you switch the phone on!

However IMEI's are in blocks for manufacturers so an SP can usually work out what sort of phone you have.

Good question!

This, of course, is the (somewhat comical) crux of the matter.

I can see the court case now ...

"Your honor, the defendant explicitly told us, AT&T, that he did not want a data plan for his minor children; however we enforce that you must pay for a data plan, even if defendant doesn't want it, and even if the defendent has a data lock so that his minor children can't use it - and - while defendent can simply put his AT&T SIM card into a phone not on our penalty list - the defendent expressly bought a phone whose model 'was' listed on our data-penalty list - and - in fact - it was a phone we, AT&T, don't even sell - yet - this defendent used said phone, but didn't purchase the data plan he has no intention of using, and, which he cannot use due to the data lock he asked us to place on the phone. He avoided charges for that which he did not want and couldn't possibly use by merely spoofing his IMEI..."

The prosecution continued:

"Therefore, your honor ... we ask for the death penalty to be imposed."

Even on my smartphones, I only use voice & text. Would I need 3G in that case?

I'm thinking of buying a Samsung Galaxy Android phone; would I need 3G in that case?

That has been my experience with T-Mobile also.

The good news, for me, is that I don't even know what tethering is. So, I won't even miss it.

I don't even use data, even on my smartphones (they're WiFi). That's why I use T-Mobile - but unfortunately, AT&T coverage is better.

Actually, I thought it was clear - but it won't hurt to make it clear again. They ALWAYS know your IMEI! You don't have to tell them anything.

There is no way they don't know your IMEI.

I have emperical evidence of this by my calls from the VP at AT&T in response to my FCC complaint - but the point is that they ALWAYS know your IMEI so it 'should' be immaterial whether or not you "verbally" and voluntarily provided it to them over a phone call.

I have no idea. But I respect your long-standing status on a.h.r so empirically, I'm sure what you said happened. All I'll say is that they KNOW your IMEI, so, if they 'wanted' to use it, they could.

Note: While they 'know' your IMEI, they don't know if you own the phone that you're using. So maybe they want your IMEI for 'permission' to update the software on that phone? For example, you can borrow your brother's phone, and it would work fine - and they'd know that IMEI - but they might not have permission to install software updates onto that phone. Dunno. But that's a different issue.

My experience exactly. I have had multiple phones, from hand-me-downs to Target $35 pay-as-you-go phones (which work just fine in the 'normal' contract network).

This is the crux of this thread.

I also get data via WiFi, so, with a T-Mobile SIM card, I have no problem. Yet, with an AT&T SIM card, I'd have to spoof the IMEI to a phone not on the AT&T-data-penalty list in order to have the same use model.

Unfortunately, nobody here has provided a reference for how to do that!

I can't imagine how roaming will affect only voice & text (remember, the goal here is to use WiFi for data ... and to never use cellular for data).

I had to look up what an iPod touch was ... it seems to be data without the voice. But what I need is voice without the (cellular) data.

Therefore, I don't understand.

What I want is super simple: a) Voice + text b) No data fees c) WiFi data

Will the iPhone touch really give me that?

It has been my eperience that T-Mobile is very friendly toward iPhones, so I don't disagree with you on this.

My kid's iPhone works fine on T-Mobile, and the only data is WiFi which is exactly how I want it to be.

I was supremely scared when the AT&T/T-Mobile merger was announced, because that would be the death of consumer choice.

This is great information - and you are well respected so I commend you for the informative cite.

Only two points to clarify: a) It's my understanding the IMEI 'can' be changed - I just don't know how. b) It's not illegal to change an IMEI in the USA.

BTW, emperically, if the UK has a weird law against changing the IMEI, then that in and of itself implies (but does not prove) that the IMEI 'can' be changed.

That's essentially what AT&T told me in response to my FCC complaint.

I had complained they were charging me for services I didn't want. Comically, AT&T repeatedly parroted the party line that it was for a 'consistent bill', yet, in the same breath, they agree that they allow a data block - which gives you that consistent bill WITHOUT the data plan (which proves their insincerity).

Speaking of contracts, I 'almost' wish I had the guts to test their mettle in the courts. It would be easy, albeit time consuming.

Here's what (I think) would happen (legal pundits asked for advice): a) I sign up for basic AT&T cellular service and ask for a data block b) I slip the new AT&T SIM card into my old unlocked smartphone. ... < the next step is what AT&T 'says' they will do > ... c) 48 hours later, AT&T automatically adds the most expensive data plan d) I call up to tell them to remove it (AT&T says they'll do that) ... < Here is where we separate talk from action > ... e) I continue to use my AT&T SIM card in a smart phone f) 48 hours later, AT&T again automatically adds the most expensive data plan g) I call up to tell them to remove it ...(let's assume they remove it) < repeat as many times as needed with AT&T to make the point >

Now, at some point, we get to legal action.

What can AT&T actually do?

I assume they can:

1. Continue to charge me (and take me to court for the money)
2. Cancel my contract (and make me pay a cancellation fee)
3. Give up (and allow me to not have a data plan like T-Mobile does willingly)

If all this happens within the 30-day California mandated grace period, I take no monetary risks (as I don't intend to even USE the phone). But, likely it will span over 30 days.

I wonder what would happen if AT&T actually tried to take me to court? I doubt they would as I can't imagine being convicted for: I. Not using data II. Having a data block III. Yet, being forced to pay for data

Maybe I should open a separate thread on this topic in the legal forums.

IMEI's are not unique - but they're so close to being unique that this is effectively the case.

But here's the capriciousness of it all.

Does AT&T supply that list of models subject to the IMEI penalty? Nope. At least you can't get it.

So, in effect, from your perpective, they 'arbitrarily' determine whether or not the phone you are using is what they consider a 'smartphone'.

The capriciousness (and callousness) of it all is a key point. If I could make a case out of this, I would, but I'd need legal help.

Depends on the network. In the UK 3 only operate native on 3G. with fall back (aka roaming) to other networks when out of coverage. Obviously they will only give you a 3G SIM. OTOH if you roam to a network (in another country) that only has 3G then you won't be able to call or text.

Any phone that had multi-band support will operate on GSM, but I would recommend for coverage purposes that you get a SIM that works on all bands. In the UK

GSM900 O2 & Voda GSM1800 O2, Voda and EE

EE claim they will be first to 4G by means of bandwidth sacrifice.

If you are in the USA then there is CDMA as well, but the main problem is the service providers who make our predatory SP's look like a bunch of angels.

Just remember that AT&T can afford more lawyers than you can! Also known as "the Deep Pocket Doctrine" or "the party with the most money wins!"

I know. I know. I would love to make a case, because I feel it's illegal, and it's deceptive.

I called AT&T today and asked about the plan and they told me it's only for 'super smart phones'. I asked for a list of those 'super smart' phones, and they told me I could give them an IMEI and they could tell me if it was on the list but that they can't give me a list because a new 'super smart' phone might come on the market tomorrow.

Their policy is downright capricious!

Here's how I would make the case:

1. I'm buy on the open market a new or used "super smart" phone.
2. I'd buy an AT&T SIM under contract & get a data block on the plan.
3. I'd place that AT&T SIM into that new unused "super smart" phone.
4. Each time AT&T adds data charges, I'd call to have them removed.
5. At some point, AT&T will probably "do something legal".
6. And, that's when I'd cancel the plan & the court process occurs.

I wonder how much overall this would cost - and, since this is clearly for the benefit of the consumer - if there is an agency (other than the FCC) which might care enough that has deeper pockets than I have?

Any idea on an agency that would back me up legally on a purposeful court case?

I do not know where you live, but in California the words "Public Utility Commission" have done wonders. The PUC really works for citizens. They do not punish telephone companies, but the companies refund money rather than fight. PUC figures that the refund rights the wrong.

I do not have a smart phone. At this time in my life I want a big loud bright phone that I can understand how to use. Right now, I am using a TracFone. The price is right. The coverage is right. If I understand what the foreign "help personnel" are saying, no such phone is available from TracFone.

Argh, bad answer. There are so many parameters in a simcard with quite cryptic names.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these wireless companies are eventually going to shut down 2G service. AT$T already announced this. There will be no more 2G by 2017, but I suspect that is when the pull the last plug. It could start sooner. T-Mob has similar plans. They need to take that spectrum and use it for faster services.

Look on the bright side. EDGE has been hacked. It is not secure. By the time 3G is hacked, we will all be on LTE.

I have no idea what will happen to EDGE in rural areas.

The Samsung Galaxy S 3 is great for a phone that you can buy today. [There is always something better in the future of course.] It even takes those 64 Gbyte SD cards. It is at least a generation or two ahead of the fruity phone.

It is free for me until the end of the month, but I'm a Blackberry fanboi. I'm waiting for BB10. You can't be too secure.