Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

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Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?

For example, *why* does ES File Explorer need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/HH2sfG.png

I'm shocked at how many apps "require" location access.

For example, why does the basic *clock* need location access?
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

A couple of days ago, when I factory reset Android 4.3 and re-installed all
my apps, one by one, from APKs, I decided to turn off location access for
all but the map apps.

It amazes me how many apps "require" location access.

I don't see why a WiFi Analyzer needs location access, do you?  
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

Why does the T-Mobile carrier-iq "System Manager Application" need it?
http://i.cubeupload.com/puQjf5.png

Or the Contacts app, for heaven's sake?
http://i.cubeupload.com/QDEOwe.png

The list goes on and on and on.
My "experiment" is to see if anything bad happens.
So far, after two days, nothing bad has happened yet.

So my question is only:
Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Why do so very many apps require location access anyway?

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 16:45:25 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers wrote:

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No, my Nexus 5X will warn me when an app tries to access it. I can then
choose to either allow or admit. Lots of apps demand lots of permissions
(even when they don't need them), but they don't always use those
permissions.

--  
s|b

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
Horace Algiers schrieb am 2016-09-23 um 18:45:

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Maybe because it includes weather info as well and needs to know for
which region the weather data should be displayed.

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Because this app also records the location to build WiFi "heatmaps" if
your region:

<https://www.acrylicwifi.com/en

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Ask T-Mobile - probably to enable/disable services which are only
available in certain regions.

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To initiate a navigation from your current location to the address of
the contact.

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No.


See above. And I don't care. If I don't trust an app I would rather not
use it at all instead of just disabling requested access rights.


--  
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
http://fahrradzukunft.de

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On 9/23/2016 9:45 AM, Horace Algiers wrote:
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Yes.


Mine doesn't. (clock version 4.5.2)

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Mine doesn't. (WiFi Analyzer version 3.9.10-L)

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If an app wants 'location' it asks me to change the settings.

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That was your first question in this post.


Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 12:35:54 -0700, AL wrote:

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Thanks for honestly answering the question.

I'm on Android 4.3 which allows App Ops Starter to control permissions.
I think App Ops Starter doesn't work with 4.4 (from memory, so I could be
wrong), and that it's not needed in 5.0 and above.

Do you know if that's true?

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Thanks for letting me know that.  

The only reason an Android clock might need the location is for automatic
time-zone correction - but - doesn't the clock get the time from the
carrier signal?

My clock seems to be version 3.0 and it *does* seem to want the location.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mAHrrA.png

So, why would we need Timezone correction if the carrier signal is
*already* corrected?

I guess we need to ask two questions to answer that:
1. How does Android get its time (in the notification bar)?
2. How does the clock app get its time?

Are these two methods the same or different?
  
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Again, thanks for the input.
There is a pattern here.

My WiFi Analyzer does ask for permission, and it's version 3.9.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PKxm2Z.png

So your versions are all slightly newer than mine.
Maybe the app developers had an epiphany between your OS and mine?

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Thanks for that input. In my case, location is asked by the map apps, but
not necessarily by the clock app or ES File Explorer, or the WiFi Analyzer.  

I'm not sure what that tells me, but it makes sense that if an app truly
*needs* the location, that it should simply *ask* for the location access
at the time it needs it.

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It seems you have a *different* Android OS than I do, and certainly your
apps are newer, so, that's probably the distinction.

It will be interesting to see how others fare on whether their basic apps
ask for location permission or not and whether people manually grant that
access or not.

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 00:04:42 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers wrote:

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I have Wifi Analyzer (farproc) version 3.9.11-L and it does *not* ask
permission for Location. It only asks permission for Storage:
<https://s18.postimg.org/8ejr6ryg9/Screenshot_20160925_172934.png

"App-machtigingen" = Apps Permissions
"Opslagruimte" = Storage

(I have a Nexus 5X, Android 7.0, it has "App ops" built-in.)

--  
s|b

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On 9/23/2016 5:04 PM, Horace Algiers wrote:
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It would still be needed in 5. But not in 6 and above which allow you to  
deny permissions in settings, no app required.

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My Maps app (version 9.36.2) wants access to contacts, location, phone,  
and storage. I leave them all off. So far no app complaints for just  
bringing up a map. If I want turn by turn directions then I'd of course  
need location on.

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IMO that would be a hassle for people who aren't as paranoid as we are.


Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
wrote:

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My map app is My Trails (Pro):
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.frogsparks.mytrails&hl=en
It wants to use GPS, modify SD card, add|find|use accounts, full
network access, run at startup, prevent phone from sleeping, and
vibrator.  I'm not so sure about the accounts stuff, but the rest
doesn't look too horrible.

No turn by turn needed or wanted.  I rarely listen to instructions
from anyone and certainly don't plan to start doing so with
instructions from a machine.  Incidentally, anyone trying to use a GPS
map device to find a usable route to my house is sure to get lost.
There are roads on the maps that don't exist which the mapping
programs never fail to use as the preferred route.

--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 22:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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??? How would any mapping program every use "maps that don't exist"?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--  
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On 2016-09-25 00:26, tlvp wrote:
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No, roads that do not exist, painted on the maps.

--  
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 02:45:33 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

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Oh, sorry. Dangling modifiers like that always confuse the heck out of me.
Thanks for reinterpreting for me. Cheers, -- tlvp
--  
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On 2016-09-24 07:42, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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The accounts is probably because it wants you to register to use it and
save your routes. Some of these apps may offer to share a track with
someone.

The access to the SD card may be to save the track or to save photos you do.

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LOL :-)

--  
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 22:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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Worse, Jeff, is that there are roads by my house, which is near your house,
that I have *personally* requested Google mark as "restricted use".

I really wanted them to mark the paths and roads as "blocked" but Google
doesn't seem to have that designation.

They only have restricted use.  

Interestingly, you *never* can *talk* to a Google person by phone. You just
get the runaround for an hour at their hq even. So what you get is a local
*volunteer* who has distinguished himself by a certain number of posts to
the Google Mapping Forum (as far as I can tell).

This distinguished local volunteer is actually reasonable, and he/she
listens to your public arguments, and he/she makes a call on what to
designate the road and he/she then submits that decision to a higher-level
group (presumably of google employees).

Only then do you get a notification of the final action, which, in some
cases they agreed and in others (such as marking the road blocked), they
disagreed. Each time they gave a rationale, which I consider reasonable
(although inaccurate - since the road "is" blocked).  

Their rationale is that a locked gate isn't a blockage - it's a
"restriction". Their point is that someone who has the gate code or key can
get past the blockage, so, it's merely a restriction.

In the end, my point is that simply *looking* at an *accurate* map will
sometimes tell you better how to get somewhere than Google directions. In
this case that I had the Google database corrected, if you route to a house
on one of the "restricted use" roads, Google will take you to that house
(because they don't "block" the road).

However, if you route from a point "just outside" the restricted-use roads,
Google will take you roundabout over 30 additional miles since it won't
route using the "restricted use" road unless the destination is "on" the
restricted use roads.

Interesting ...  

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 16:31:31 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers

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Google made a rather big mistake in the Santa Cruz area.  The 122deg
longitude line goes through the middle of town.  Everything to the
west of 122deg was correctly based on WGS84.  Everything to the east
was based on NAD27.  I never bothered to see how far east it extended.
You could actually see the jog in satellite photos.  Measuring the
offset produced approximately a 200ft error, which is approximately
what I would expect from the this mistake.  

With such a clear cut and drastic error, one would expect Google to
fix the problem fairly quickly.  Nope.  It took about 2 years to met
to get their attention.  I was only successful because at the time, a
friend worked in the Google Maps group and crammed it into the queue
for the price of a restaurant dinner for his family.  I think it was
about 2000 or maybe earlier and things undoubtedly have changed since
then.

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Around here, the gated "restricted entry" properties are usually pot
farms.

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I email everyone who plans to visit a map with the route inscribed:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/1540%20Jackson%20Ave.jpg
As one gets further up the hill, many of the roads shown on the map
were either washed out, overgrown, undermined, planned but not built,
or gated.  A few end in a precipitous drop.  It would be nice if the
map makers added such designations.  Maybe add pot holes, death traps,
angry land owners, no turn-around, etc.  I used to have a sign board
at the transition between the county maintained road, and the owner
maintained section, showing some of these hazards.  It was a big help,
but the tourists and visitors kept stealing the map.  When someone
stole the map and the sign board, I gave up.

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I use Open Street Maps to generate routes and directions.
<http://map.project-osrm.org
<http://www.yournavigation.org
<http://open.mapquest.com (going away)
I've made a few local corrections to the maps.  Adding things is
fairly easy.  Removing them, such as deleting roads that don't exist,
is almost impossible.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 11:05:52 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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That's interesting because I always wondered *where* Google Maps gets it's
baseline map information from.

I know they have the satellite view, but I don't think they use the
satellite view as a primary view - but only as an "overlay".

I actually thought they get their maps from the local county GIS office,
who themselves gets their map information from the county assessor's
office.
http://gis.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/PublicGISWeb/

The GIS office maintains all sorts of maps (e.g., hydrology, foliage, etc)
but they also cover the roads and the road status (e.g., dirt, paved,
etc.).
http://www.co.santa-cruz.ca.us/Departments/GeographicInformationSystems%28GIS%29.aspx

AFAIK, GIS gets the road status from the assessor (e.g., public, private)
and they put it as a property on the GIS map.  

Everyone else (e.g., the police, fire department, etc.) gets their maps
from the GIS office (AFAIK).

Given that system, I would *assume* that Google Maps gets their baseline
maps from GIS.

I don't want to assign homework to you, but, if/when you have time (ok if
that's never), you could check to see if your local GIS map has the same
errors that you see in Google Maps.

That would be further evidence that the process is:
a. Assessor's map  
b. GIS map
c. Sheriff/police/fire/etc. map & Google/Delorme/Garmin/etc map

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Wow. I have friends in that Mountainview HQ but even they told me to get my
map corrections through the official channels! You have more clout than I
do down the hill in Mountainview!

This is the official process:
https://support.google.com/maps/answer/3094088

1 Open Google Maps and make sure you're signed in.
2 To report a problem about an address, search for that address or click on
the map to drop a pin.
3 In the bottom right, click Send feedback.
4 Choose Report a data problem.
5 Follow the instructions.
6 Click Submit.

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Heh heh ... out here, there are both legal and illegal pot farms, but I try
to stay away from them, if I can. They shoot to kill.
  
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I also have put up volunteer signs, and they were defaced, within months,
and some stolen, so I know what you mean when you get discouraged.

I had kids go to UCSC, so I should have stopped by when I visited them. Too
late now, but it was fun sending them off to school. :)

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I love that the OSM maps in my area have a certain "mistake" which is what
I use to instantly tell whether a free mapping program is using OSM maps or
not, since all the ones using OSM maps have the same mistake.

So that's one that I won't try to fix, as it gives me useful data.
:)

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 00:23:03 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers

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That sounds suspiciously like the process I followed in about 2008/2009
where a major North/South state highway in Kansas abruptly ended on the
map, but in reality it continued all the way to the Oklahoma border.
They corrected the error in about 7 months, IIRC.


Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:21:10 -0500, Char Jackson wrote:

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They fixed the errors I told them about in roughly a week or two (as I
recall). So maybe they're getting better ... or maybe it just depends on
the "local volunteer" who makes the initial decision...  

Or maybe it depends on the google employee who has to approve the change.

Or maybe it depends on the scope of the change.

Dunno... mine was no longer than two weeks as I recall, so, I consider that
"fast enough".

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 00:23:03 +0000 (UTC), Horace Algiers

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<https://maps.google.com/help/maps/mapcontent/basemap/
I guess the theory is that if you mix in all the various and diverse
AUTHORITATIVE map sources, the errors will all cancel.

My guess(tm) is that most road maps were originally aerial photos,
where software traced out the roads.
<https://developmentseed.org/blog/2015/08/17/uav-for-road-monitoring/

Fire up Google Earth and it tells you date, but not the sources or the
images.  I guess there are just too many now to list them on the maps.
However, if you go back to older images with:
  View -> Historical Imagery
you'll see the source of the images at the lower center of the screen.
Scrolling through my home area, I find USGS, NASA, Digital Globe, USDA
Farm Service Agency, Google, etc.

Incidentally, the County of Santa Cruz paid a fairly large amount of
money to do a LADAR survey of the county from the air.  For
benchmarks, they painted a white "X" on top of all the manhole covers.
Can't get much better than that.

Many years ago, I worked with CDF (Cal Fire) on jurisdictional
boundary maps.  The problem was that the SCZ County and San Mateo
County maps did not meet neatly at the boundary.  The gap left a fair
number of house in the gap with fire service from either both
jurisdictions, or neither jurisdiction.  Roads would also appear to be
skewed or broken.  Rumor had it that one house burned down while fire
fighters from SCZ and San Mateo argued over who should put out the
fire.  I don't know if that was for real.  I was not involved in the
inevitable compromise.  All I know is that it worked and was
non-violent.

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Nope.  The PSAPs (public safety answering points) use the telephone
company property maps for 911 location.  Since the call originally was
expected to come in via a wired POTS phone line, these property
numbers could be used for location.  There's a dedicated computah of
obtaining location data on 911 calls from this computer.  The location
is in a proprietary format which eventually produces a location on the
dispatchers console.  This is why giving the dispatcher your location
in lat-long has been somewhat of a problem.  However, I'm about 10
years behind on this technology and things may have changed.

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GIS is not a company or organization.  It stands for Geographic
Information System.  While there are now organizations for dealing
with discrepancies, such as what happens with we have an earthquake, a
botched surveying job, or continental drift, there is no central
depository for all the nations map data.

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Sigh.  I don't think you realize how much work that could be.  I've
done this rather crudely using Google Earth, which allows for
overlays.  I create an overlay map and record the lat-long of the map
corners.  When I insert it into Google Earth as a semi-transparent
overlay, I can see how the features line up.  I do this often with
radio and cellular coverage patterns.  It's not difficult to see that
the roads don't always line up very well.
<https://www.google.com/earth/outreach/tutorials/earthoverlays.html

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That was maybe 10 to 15 years ago.  I don't think I could do it today.
The problem today is very different.  With all the distributed
companies and work at home systems, just finding the person in charge
of something is difficult.  Getting a consensus is impossible because
I'm not on their secure work network.  Dinner bribes are also
difficult if the manager is somewhere in India or China.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 21:27:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

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Heh heh ... Jeff ... I hike these hills a lot, and I've seen big blue
plastic sheets with an X in white in the middle nailed to the ground.

I have photos of them, but I'd have to dig them out and I'm sure you've
seen the same things all over.  

SO that's what they must have been doing, which is what I would have
thought, since there's no other reason for a blue and white X to be on the
ground in the middle of nowhere.  

Re: Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Horace Algier

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<https://www.google.com/search?q=Survey+Aerial+Targets&tbm=isch
There's often a survey marker or benchmark under the markers.

When they were doing the county survey, I accidentally found a few of
ground markers in remote locations, but mostly the "X" was painted on
roadways, parking lots, etc.  Temporary markers tend to mysteriously
move or disappear.

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Yep.  Aerial survey and mapping.  
--  
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

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