Do you know where we can find the 3 key WiFi specs for the iPad?

Wow. That's six times the power, not just doubling.

I officially will give up on my prior assumption that the power gain at 5GHz was twice that at 2.4 GHz.

It's actually 5.62 times the power!

Thanks for explaining.

The important takeaway is that the iPad antenna has

4.2dB more gain at 5.7GHz than at 2.4GHz (which means the iPad transmits 2.6 times as much power at 5.7GHz as it does at 2.4GHz).

Note: My conversion of dB to power factor are from here:

Oops. My apologies and my faulty memory (again).

Starting in about 2006, I used a XV6700 on Verizon. Not the best audio or range, but no disconnects: Starting in about 2009, I used an iPhone 3G on AT&T for only about a week after which I discontinued the service due to poor coverage in my mountain area. For the next year or so, I went through a variety of used phones on Verizon. Since the iPhone 3G was mine, I carried it around as a PDA for about 2 years after pulling the plug with AT&T. After that, I retired the iPhone 3G and switched to a Droid X and later a Droid X2. For cellular voice, I use, an old LG VX8300 phone on Verizon.

The reduction in dropped calls on my friends AT&T iPhone 3G's was quite real.

This is an excellent idea! Thanks!

they probably added capacity, which they said they would be doing because it was so horribly overloaded.

Hi Jeff,

That's pretty interesting, because, well, um, I had assumed that they almost always lie when it comes to specifications.

The WiFi chip found in this iPad teardown

Is the Broadcom BCM4329:

Googling for the specs for that broadcom chip, I "think" I found them on page 6 of this document:

Do those specs look reasonable for that chip?

See the red bar graph showing iPhone 4 dislikes. 24% listed "antenna issues" as what they "most dislike" about the iPhone 4. What someone dislikes the most is a great way of reducing the incidence of lesser complaints. For example, users were given a choice of "most dislike" of requiring using the AT&T network, and coverage, speed, and of the quality of the AT&T network. The result was 27% and 24% respectively. What this did was effectively split the complaints about AT&T roughly in half. If they had only offered AT&T complaints as a single "most dislike" choice, the combined total of 51% would have indicated that at least half the users were not thrilled with AT&T. Similarly, the participants were given the choice of "dropped calls" and "antenna issues" again effectively splitting the complaints. If I assume that all dropped calls were precipitated by the antenna problem (not system overload), then at least 47% were having problems. If they had asked "Which of the following do you dislike about the iPhone and about AT&T. Pick all that apply", it would have been a very different survey.

Of course, there's something wrong with the numbers anyway, as the total of the percentages adds up to 129% instead of 100%.

The article claims: To gauge the impact of the antenna obstruction issue, we asked iPhone 4 owners to tell us how big of a problem it

Experienced Any Problem and another 14% reported it

it was Somewhat of a Problem (14%) or a Very Big Problem (7%). So, 14+14+7 = 35% of the users were having a problem. I guess Apple has such a large customer base, that it can afford to ignore 1/3 of it's early adopters.

Full disclosures. I used to craft such surveys in the late 1980's but haven't done much since then. I would be interested in seeing the original survey. They usually charge for reports:

For every customer that actually calls tech support with a real problem, it can be assumed that there is a fairly large number of users that simply didn't bother to call. I've worked on a few products that had this problem. We didn't know that something was wrong until one customer made considerable noise at a trade show, followed by plenty of "me too" complaints. Kinda like priming the pump. Unfortunately, it's quite common to run a business these days on the basis of no complaint = no problem. The result is that some brilliant manager decides that it's easier to discourage complainers than it is to fix the product. I wrote this about 20 years ago in honor of such brilliance:

More examples of products that don't work, and few or nobody complains:

It demonstrates that customer complaints and product defects are not directly connected. It is quite possible to have a problem, and nobody complain, as I found out. I can supply other examples of this if you are not convinced.

True. iPhones are not the only products that sell well but have defects. I see them all the time in the computer biz. For example, Dell was (allegedly) knowingly selling computers that had defective electrolytic capacitors known to bulge, leak, and fail in a fairly short time. Various laptop vendors did much the same with lousy BGA soldering (and blamed on bad Nvidia chips). They sold quite nicely, even during the various class action suits and settlements which provided the only way consumers even knew that there was a problem.

Perception is everything, and the perception of Apple products is truly impressive.

They drop by differing amounts, measured in dB. Did you measure the signal levels as I suggested in my previous message? I have a mess of phones in the office that I can measure on Monday or Tues. If you need help getting into the test mode:

Some people do, but most don't. They simply don't consider the effort necessary to file a proper complaint worthwhile. Also, many companies have no mechanism for complaints. For example, about 4(?) years ago, I had a firmware update failure that trashed an Apple aluminum Bluetooth keyboard. The installer would not let me go back a version, not let me reinstall, and there was no later version. I asked for help on various forums and to various email addresses with little result. When I changed my questions to complaints, my postings were deleted from the Apple forum and my account locked.

I saw little in the way of an effect except to see 1 or 2 bars go to zero. No dropped calls. I have several phones that will successfully make calls with no bars showing. I want to see the change in signal level in dBm before and after.

It's still not sinking in. Go to: All the ordinary cell phones lost signal when the antenna was covered. Most lost 5 to 8 dB in signal, which is considerable, but not fatal in moderate signal areas. The worst was 12dB. However, the iPhone 4 lost between 19.8dB and 24.6dB which is enormous, huge, monstrous, and full able to create a dropout. When I did the tests, we didn't have the iPhone 4 rubber protectors available, but I can test those when I have time and add them to the table.

To put the numbers in perspective 5 to 8dB is about 3.2 to 6.3 times. The iPhone 4 19.8dB to 24.6dB is 95.5 to 288 times drop in signal. That's like trying to operate with 1/100 to 1/200 of the normal signal level.

Now do you understand the problem?

I used to track cell sites in the Santa Cruz county area. This is a really old (2003). I have some spreadsheets and maps with current cell site locations and capabilities: The plan was to make an overlay of the coverage areas by vendor, but that ended when I landed in the hospital for some major surgery. This is the only map that I managed to do at the time: See map at bottom of page. Since then, the coverage maps produced by Radio-Mobile have been considerably better:

At the time (about 2010) there had been some growth in the AT&T system in the downtown areas and along the major highways. It was not spectacular. In the mountains, where I live, there has been no changes in the AT&T system since about 2001. The biggest build was the shared DAS system at the local university (UCSC). The sites are at the telco CO's, on a few local hills, 2 small sites, and nothing more. I can't find my spreadsheet with the locations or I would be more specific. I think (not sure) that all 3 of my iPhone using friends were in moderate signal areas, where they would not be significantly affected by additional cell sites, but would be affected by additional users.

2AM. Enough for tonite...

No. The problem is that the module is using an XM2400LT for a 2.4Ghz receiver preamp, and a SKY65404 rx preamp, and an RTC6651 tx power amp on 5.7GHz. See Pg 5, Fig 1, in the Lairdtech document. Because the iPad is NOT using any of these additional chips, all the numbers will be different.

WHICH MODEL IPAD DO YOU HAVE? FCC ID or APPLE MODEL NUMBER.

only 7% had a major problem. that's very low, just as i said.

'nearly two-thirds reported they haven't experienced any problem'. that's a lot.

it also means the entire thing was overblown. most people did not find it to be a problem *at all*.

add in the 14% who said it wasn't much of a problem and you have almost

80% who are either not impacted at all or only slightly. almost 80% !!!

the capacitors were not dell's fault. dell bought what they thought were good capacitors, as did many other companies, and they turned out to be defective. a lot of companies were affected, including apple.

the nvidia chip delamination issue also affected many companies, including apple, who issued an extended repair program because of it.

and users found out the hard way, because their products ceased to function.

not really.

what matters is does the phone work in normal day to day operation and can the user make and receive calls without dropping and do whatever tasks they want to do.

it does, and they can.

that's a formal complaint.

you said there were a lot of hits on google. that's *not* a formal complaint.

it takes almost no effort to post on a forum that a product isn't working properly or there's some other problem with it (even if it's minor), the user hates the product etc. type up a rant, and a few clicks later it's posted for all to see.

it's very rare to see people post that they like something. it happens, but not as much as complaints.

and this isn't just tech. people complain about everything more than they do praise. it's human nature.

apple has mechanisms for complaints. did you avail yourself of it?

if you took the bluetooth keyboard to an apple store, they would have fixed it or replaced it.

exactly my point. all phones are affected.

that includes the iphone 4. it's no different.

physics is physics.

If I remember to turn of the wifi or block the autoconnect, then it isn't a problem. But you grab the phone and leave the house, and forget to change things like switch off wifi. I'm waiting for the next rev of my phone OS, then I can use a NFC to change the phone parameters. That is, leave a NFC in the car and the phone will automatically be set. Right now all I can do is program tags and read them as messages or URLs.

There is no enforcement of IEEE specs. Often manufacturers say they are "compatible" with a spec, which doesn't mean they meet the spec.

Speaking of NFC, I think we get chip and pin credit cards in 2016. Well unless more corrupt politicians are purchased. I'd really like some scheme where my receipt is feed NFC. I don't mind using a card, but hate the paper, and am paranoid that someday the receipt will be useful.

No seriously, Apple sucks in the RF department. They are a class of shit to themselves. This isn't a secret. But the idea of the iphone is to having a gaming machine, so the RF issues are secondary.

Note for LTE, they use two antennas. This is part of the standard. That is, everyone uses at least two antennas for LTE. This should make the iphone suck less.

What they really need to do is hire some good RF engineers. If they drop the style (i.e. useless metal on the phone) for good engineering, Apple could be as good as the rest of the market.

Look at those cheap Droids. Totally killer RF at half the price.

The iphone dropped calls are due to something besides the antenna. I've seen the phone drop calls when not moving. I suspect some issue in IOS. The iphone declares "call failed" out of the blue.

depends on the carrier. at&t is well known for dropped calls.

bullshit.

7% is totally unacceptable. .7% is ridiculous and .07% is still too high. On the other hand, some people would defend a burning bag of dog shit as top quality and flawless.

How would you feel if the brakes on your car only worked 93% of the time? The electricity to your home?

I own a couple Apple computers. I use them for doorstops. They can't even do that rigt. most of the time.

Hi Jeff, Thanks for that advice. I always appreciate your help.

If I go to my settings in the iPad Air, I find the following: Settings->General->Software Update = iOS 7.0.6 Settings->General->About->Version = 7.0.6 (11B651) Settings->General->About->Carrier = T-Mobile 15.5 Settings->General->About->Model = MF534LL/A

Hmmmmmm..... I was expecting a different model number.

Getting out a (real) magnifying glass, I see on the back bottom: Model A1475 FCC ID: BCGA1475 IC: 579C-A1475

troll.

first of all, no product has a 0.07% failure rate. that's just not realistic.

second of all, the proper comparison is with other similar phones, not zero, and you'll see it's not significantly different.

all cellphones have the same problem to a certain extent, and in some cases, it's worse with others than it is for an iphone.

i've had to repair the brakes twice in the past 4 years, once on each of two cars.

the power goes out a few times a year typically, and was flickering a couple of weeks ago but didn't go off completely. a couple of years ago after a big storm, it was off for 2 days.

it sucks when it happens but nothing is perfect.

not that either one is relevant. if the signal strength drops a little, it's not a big deal.

then computers are far too complicated for you.

The Wi-Fi Alliance certifies that tested devices meet the major IEEE

802.11* specs. A fair number of devices have only some of their features certified.

There are also proprietary enhancements and privatized versions of common specs, such as Apple's Airprint as an "extension" of IPP (internet printing protocol). At this time, the Wi-Fi Alliance does not certify printing protocols, but that might change real soon.

I haven't seen that. If they have the appropriate logo or certification number, they passed the test.

I can't say anything about that for obvious reasons. However, I can point out an oddity. Apple has posted an ever increasing number of RF engineer job openings for approximately the last year or so.

24 are in the SF Bay area. The odd part is that postings are reposted as new openings every 2 weeks or so, sometimes with minor changes. To the best of my limited knowledge, they haven't hired anyone. Maybe their looking for an excuse to bring in some more H1B employees working for below industry pay scale. Dunno.

For me, it's mostly a camera and an HP41 calculator emulator.

It's the style and the perception of quality that sells the phones. I don't think that Apple is going to drop that.

Ummm... my Droid X and Droid X2 offer far from stellar RF performance. Same with various other Android smartphones I've tested. The limiting factor is controlling SAR (specific absorption rate), which is a problem with all phones. The limit is 1.6 W/Kg. Most Apple phones coming in around 1.2 W/Kg. Not too bad. However, the worst phones are mostly Android smartphones: Of course, some manufacturers cheat by reducing the maximum TX power of their phones in order to meet the SAR specification. If that happened, you should see the lower numbers in the FCC ID pages for the phone. I would lookup the power levels but the FCC ID site is still belching errors (on 2 different computahs and one tablet).

that could be for any number of reasons, including the 'new product categories' they have said they're working on.

nevertheless, conspiracy theories abound.

and they definitely don't suck in the rf department.