Are we all handing to Google the SSID of our home routers?

No. Each device and each access point has to be uniquely and consistently identified so that you know which thing is talking to which. Your suggestion would have everyone blasting invalid passwords at everyone else and no-one getting connected. A good way to collect passwords, but not good for anything else.

Reply to
Whiskers
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But it can tell you're near your neighbours, by seeing their SSIDs :-)

Reply to
Andy Burns

One way to change the MAC is to buy a dozen wireless routers and rotate a different one into service on a random basis, whenever you feel icky.

Reply to
Char Jackson

That?s why I gave a quantitative approach for translating estimated attacker capabilities into an answer, which doesn?t seem to have survived your editing.

Reply to
Richard Kettlewell

So it is writ by Alice J. , so mote it be.

It is necessary for operations that it be unique within its own ken. Since that extends to about 100 meter sat best anyone wishing to take advantage of that uniqueness will need to be close.

Why? Don't you have to change all of the devices that would connect to this access point? I would never consider changing something used over dozen devices on a regular basis. Not to mention how annoyed my elder son, his wife, my younger son, his girlfriend, and my wife would be every time I told them to change their devices. This doesn't even consider any other relatives who may have accessed it and still have the connection defined on a phone, tablet, or laptop.

Mike "yes I am free with my home network" Yetto

Reply to
Mike Yetto

Reply to
Mike Yetto

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-29 um 17:37:

Maybe they do also send SSIDs - but not to Google of course but to Apple.

As i explained - the SSIDs may be transferred along with the current mobile network cell id and/or GPS location so Google can use the SSIDs as an additional way for "coarse location".

But I don't worry about this. Neither my privacy nor the security of my data depends on hiding the SSID of my home WiFi network.

AFAIK the default allows transmitting the SSID. So even if you turn it off on your own device many other devices may still tell Google which SSIDs they see at their current location. But I'm not sure about this as I don't check this on every device I use.

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Jeff Liebermann schrieb am 2016-01-30 um 19:43:

[...]

You can. You just don't have all the Google services. But with F-Droid () there are alternatives - e.g. K9 Mail, OsmAnd, DAVdroid etc..

And telephony, addressbook and calendar work without a Google account as well. Also internet access is possible without Google as well.

With CyanogenMod or AOKP you don't get any Google stuff anyway - and it also works quite well.

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-30 um 09:20:

This is just a two-factor-authentication to avoid that someone else uses your account.

You can also setup the Google Authenticator on your phone (or a similar App on a Smartwatch like Pebble) as the second factor - then you don't need to provide a mobile number for the verification process.

No - it wouldn't - because the number you enter there is the one of the person who will be allowed to use the account. Google will send a verification code to this number which you have to enter on the next page during the login process.

For the first time this may look stupid as someone who has stolen your account details may abuse this. But therefore it is even more important to set this up - because the second time Google will not ask again but just send you a verification code via SMS if needed. And this makes your account more secure as before.

You can also use Apps like Authenticator or QuickAuth on Pebble smartwatches as the second authentication factor and configure this in your Google account, so you don't need to use a mobile number at all in the future.

Why?

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-31 um 00:24:

Just don't use a standard Android device but something with CyanogenMod or AOKP - then you don't have Google services at all. No Maps, no GMail, no Play Store.

Or just don't log in to Google on the phone - this is not needed at all.

For apps you can use F-Droid as well (see ).

No, Google does not "hate" you. It's just a security measure not to allow a login from many multiple adresses without an additional authentication factor beside a username and password.

Then don't do it. What's the problem with that? What kind of Google service do you need that bad, that you still log in there and not just stop using Google services at all?

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-30 um 16:25:

Taking Google to the court.

The location is still the same and the SSID or MAC address will not show up somehwere esle. So Google may assume that in fact this is always the same network just changing its SSID or MAC address.

Even if it would - this will not happen as you can not teach and persuade everybody in this world to do that.

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-31 um 06:31:

It's not very unique. Half of the address - the first 24 of 48 bits of the MAC address - is the manufacturer identification (OUI) and the remaining 24 bits are some serial number by the manufacturer. So it's very likely that this address will exist more than once as many big manufacturers produce more than 524288 network devices in total (which is the maximum possible number of unique numbers using 24 bits).

And some addresses are reserved as well - as for example ff-ff-ff-ff-ff-ff is the broadcast address and the addresses between

01-00-5e-00-00-00 and 01-00-5e-7f-ff-ff are reserved for multicast.

And you really like to tell your devices the new SSID every month? I have around 6 WiFi devices which I use here. It would just be awful if I would have to reconfigure the network on all these devices every month.

I think it's easier just to use the "_nomap" extension for the SSID and believe Google that they don't record these SSIDs. Otherwise take Google to the court to forbid them the recording at all - good luck with that.

Reply to
Arno Welzel

What's a good free permanent email service you suggest outside of Google or Yahoo (too much spam) that you can get without having to provide a phone number?

I can't find any.

Reply to
Alice J.

I think you missed the point which was to set up a free permanent mail account *without* having to give it a phone number.

Google used to let you do that until only extremely recently (months).

Who else let's you do that?

Reply to
Alice J.

Actually, it wouldn't work, but not for the reason you stated. People make up MAC addresses all the time. For example, I change mine daily on my laptop when I travel. When I'm at a hotel, I always change it so that all devices use the same connection (if the connection is limited to 1 device).

Cable subscriber 'clone' a MAC address all the time also.

So, changing the mac address is not causing "chaos" in the world.

But, the problem is that you can't easily change the SSID's MAC address, as Jeff explained. You can easily change the router's WAN ethernet port MAC address, but that's the only one easily changed on the router.

Reply to
Alice J.

Yes. Privacy was never synonymous with convenient.

Reply to
Alice J.

I love that idea!

It's novel, and it would work!

(It's expensive though... but you knew that!).

:)

Reply to
Alice J.

Yes. Using _nomap is easier. I agree. It's a no brainer, from the standpoint of privacy.

Reply to
Alice J.

Alice J. schrieb am 2016-01-31 um 21:57:

I have my own server and my own domains - so I can't really recommend anything (and no, my services are not for free ;-)). But so far GMX also worked quite well for me.

But wait - in you mentioned that don't use a permanent Google account but change it frequently - "Then, over time, periodically I deleted them (once every few months).".

But when you want to use a pemanent email service at Google - isn't it much easier to have just *one* Google account for everything? I do since I also publish Apps and use the web developer tools to check if there is any issue with my websites and it would be quite cumbersome if I would have to login with a number of different Google accounts all the time.

And seriously: If you don't trust Google, then don't use their services. Or do you encrypt all the e-mail you exchange with others?

Reply to
Arno Welzel

Whiskers wrote in message snipped-for-privacy@ID-107770.user.individual.net:

I always turn off my wifi card using the switch on the laptop. Unfortunately, my script to change the mac *requires* the laptop wifi card to be turned on (I don't really know why, but it does).

So, I have to turn on the laptop far away in the parking lot first, and change the mac address, and then go into the hotspot.

Here's the changemac script that I pulled off of the linux newsgroup: #!/bin/bash ################################################# # # Script: changemac.sh # written by: Marek Novotny # version: 0.4 # date: 2015-10-17 # notes: MAC Address Changing Kubuntu # See also:

formatting link
#
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# use sudo if you're not root (add ifconfig to sudoers.d) if [ $(id -u) != 0 ] ; then priv="sudo" else priv="" fi

# grab the NIC interface (e.g., devID=wlan0) # WIP: Add a check if device ID is "tun0", don't change it devID=$(ip route get 8.8.8.8 | awk 'NR==1 {print $5}') # Get the device MAC address MACaddr=$(ifconfig $devID | grep HWaddr | awk '{print $5}') echo "old MAC: $MACaddr"

# Set up a list of organizationally unique identifiers OUI #

formatting link
OUIArray=( 00:01:2a # telematica sistems inteligente 00:02:b3 # intel corporation 00:03:47 # intel corporation 00:04:23 # intel corporation 00:04:3a # intelligent telecommunications, inc. 00:05:b5 # Broadcom Technologies 00:06:5b # dell computer corp. 00:07:e9 # intel corporation 00:08:1a # sanrad intelligence storage communications 2000 ltd. 00:08:74 # dell computer corp. 00:09:58 # intelnet s.a. 00:0a:f7 # Broadcom Corp. 00:0b:db # dell inc 00:0c:c7 # intelligent computer solutions inc. 00:0c:f1 # intel corporation 00:0d:56 # dell inc 00:0d:b6 # Broadcom Corporation 00:0e:0c # intel corporation 00:0e:35 # intel corp 00:0f:1f # dell inc 00:10:18 # BroadCOM CORPORATION 00:10:e6 # applied intelligent systems, inc. 00:11:11 # intel corporation 00:11:43 # dell inc 00:11:75 # intel corporation 00:11:76 # intellambda systems, inc. 00:12:3f # dell inc 00:12:f0 # intel 00:12:f0 # intel corporate 00:13:02 # intel corporate 00:13:20 # intel corporate 00:13:72 # dell inc 00:13:b1 # intelligent control systems asia pte ltd 00:13:ce # intel corporate 00:13:e8 # intel corporate 00:14:22 # dell inc 00:14:4d # intelligent systems 00:15:00 # intel corporate 00:15:17 # intel corporate 00:15:1f # multivision intelligent surveillance hong kong ltd 00:15:c5 # dell inc 00:16:6f # intel corporate 00:16:76 # intel corporate 00:16:ea # intel corporate 00:16:eb # intel corporate 00:16:f0 # dell 00:18:8b # dell inc 00:18:de # intel corporate 00:19:00 # intelliverese - dba voicecom 00:19:25 # intelicis corporation 00:19:b4 # intellio ltd 00:19:b9 # dell inc. 00:19:d1 # intel corporate 00:19:d2 # intel corporate 00:1a:3f # intelbras 00:1a:a0 # dell inc 00:1b:0a # intelligent distributed controls ltd 00:1b:21 # intel corporate 00:1b:77 # intel corporate 00:1b:b2 # intellect international nv 00:1b:e9 # Broadcom Corporation 00:1b:f9 # intellitect water ltd 00:1c:23 # dell inc 00:1c:bf # intel 00:1c:bf # intel corporate 00:1c:c0 # intel corporate 00:1d:09 # dell 00:1d:09 # dell inc 00:1d:40 # intel ? ge care innovations llc 00:1d:e0 # intel corporate 00:1d:e1 # intel corporate 00:1e:4f # dell inc. 00:1e:64 # intel corporate 00:1e:65 # intel corporate 00:1e:67 # intel corporate 00:1e:c9 # dell inc 00:1f:0c # intelligent digital services gmbh 00:1f:3b # intel corporate 00:1f:3c # intel corporate 00:20:7b # intel corporation 00:21:5c # intel corporate 00:21:5d # intel corporate 00:21:6a # intel corporate 00:21:6b # intel corporate 00:21:70 # dell inc 00:21:9b # dell inc 00:22:19 # dell inc 00:22:46 # evoc intelligent technology co.,ltd. 00:22:e6 # intelligent data 00:22:fa # intel corporate 00:22:fb # intel corporate 00:23:14 # intel corporate 00:23:15 # intel corporate 00:23:ae # dell inc. 00:23:b2 # intelligent mechatronic systems inc 00:24:d6 # intel corporate 00:24:d7 # intel corporate 00:24:e8 # dell inc. 00:24:ea # iris-gmbh infrared & intelligent sensors 00:25:64 # dell inc. 00:25:bd # italdata ingegneria dell'idea s.p.a. 00:26:21 # intelicloud technology inc. 00:26:b9 # dell inc 00:26:c6 # intel corporate 00:26:c7 # intel corporate 00:26:fd # interactive intelligence 00:27:0e # intel corporate 00:27:10 # intel corporate 00:30:72 # intellibyte inc. 00:50:f1 # intel corporation 00:60:aa # intelligent devices inc. idi 00:6b:a0 # shenzhen universal intellisys pte ltd 00:80:53 # intellicom, inc. 00:90:27 # intel corporation 00:a0:c9 # intel corporation - hf1-06 00:aa:00 # intel corporation 00:aa:01 # intel corporation 00:aa:02 # intel corporation 00:b0:d0 # dell computer corp. 00:c0:4f # dell computer corporation 00:c2:c6 # intel corporate 00:d0:5d # intelliworxx, inc. 00:d0:b7 # intel corporation 00:db:df # intel corporate 04:9b:9c # eadingcore intelligent technology co., ltd. 08:11:96 # intel corporate 08:3f:76 # intellian technologies, inc. 08:d4:0c # intel corporate 0c:8b:fd # intel corporate 0c:d2:92 # intel corporate 10:02:b5 # intel corporate 10:0b:a9 # intel corporate 10:4a:7d # intel corporate 10:98:36 # dell inc. 14:18:77 # dell inc 14:1b:f0 # intellimedia systems ltd 14:fe:b5 # dell inc 18:03:73 # dell inc 18:06:75 # dilax intelcom gmbh 18:3d:a2 # intel corporate 18:5e:0f # intel corporate 18:a9:9b # dell inc 18:c0:86 # Broadcom Corporation 18:fb:7b # dell inc 18:ff:0f # intel corporate 1c:40:24 # dell inc 20:47:47 # dell inc. 24:6e:96 # dell inc. 24:77:03 # intel corporate 24:97:ed # techvision intelligent technology limited 24:b6:fd # dell inc 28:b2:bd # intel corporate 28:c8:25 # dellking industrial co., ltd 2c:6e:85 # intel corporate 30:3a:64 # intel corporate 34:02:86 # intel corporate 34:13:e8 # intel corporate 34:17:eb # dell inc 34:de:1a # intel corporate 34:e6:ad # intel corporate 34:e6:d7 # dell inc. 3c:a9:f4 # intel corporate 3c:fd:fe # intel corporate 40:25:c2 # intel corporate 44:1e:91 # arvida intelligent electronics technology co.,ltd. 44:85:00 # intel corporate 44:a8:42 # dell inc. 48:45:20 # intel corporate 48:51:b7 # intel corporate 4c:34:88 # intel corporate 4c:76:25 # dell inc. 4c:79:ba # intel corporate 4c:80:93 # intel corporate 4c:eb:42 # intel corporate 50:2d:a2 # intel corporate 50:45:f7 # liuhe intelligence technology ltd. 54:9f:35 # dell inc. 58:10:8c # intelbras 58:91:cf # intel corporate 58:94:6b # intel corporate 58:a8:39 # intel corporate 5c:26:0a # dell inc. 5c:51:4f # intel corporate 5c:c5:d4 # intel corporate 5c:d2:e4 # intel corporate 5c:e0:c5 # intel corporate 5c:f9:dd # dell inc 60:36:dd # intel corporate 60:46:16 # xiamen vann intelligent co., ltd 60:57:18 # intel corporate 60:67:20 # intel corporate 60:6c:66 # intel corporate 64:00:6a # dell inc. 64:55:63 # intelight inc. 64:80:99 # intel corporate 64:d4:da # intel corporate 68:05:ca # intel corporate 68:17:29 # intel corporate 68:3c:7d # magic intelligence technology limited 68:5d:43 # intel corporate 6c:29:95 # intel corporate 6c:88:14 # intel corporate 6c:a1:00 # intel corporate 70:93:83 # intelligent optical network high tech co.,ltd. 74:86:7a # dell inc 74:e5:0b # intel corporate 74:e6:e2 # dell inc. 78:0c:b8 # intel corporate 78:2b:cb # dell inc 78:3d:5b # telnet redes inteligentes s.a. 78:45:c4 # dell inc 78:92:9c # intel corporate 78:ff:57 # intel corporate 7c:5c:f8 # intel corporate 7c:7a:91 # intel corporate 7c:cc:b8 # intel corporate 7c:cf:cf # shanghai seari intelligent system co., ltd 80:00:0b # intel corporate 80:19:34 # intel corporate 80:86:f2 # intel corporate 80:9b:20 # intel corporate 80:a1:ab # intellisis 84:2b:2b # dell inc. 84:2b:bc # modelleisenbahn gmbh 84:3a:4b # intel corporate 84:73:03 # letv mobile and intelligent information technology beijing corporation ltd. 84:8f:69 # dell inc. 84:a6:c8 # intel corporate 88:53:2e # intel corporate 88:cb:a5 # suzhou torchstar intelligent technology co.,ltd 8c:70:5a # intel corporate 8c:a9:82 # intel corporate 90:2e:1c # intel corporate 90:49:fa # intel corporation 90:b1:1c # dell inc. 90:e2:ba # intel corporate 94:65:9c # intel corporate 94:f1:9e # huizhou maorong intelligent technology co.,ltd 98:4f:ee # intel corporate 98:90:96 # dell inc 9c:31:78 # foshan huadian intelligent communications teachnologies co.,ltd 9c:4e:36 # intel corporate a0:36:9f # intel corporate a0:6d:09 # intelcan technosystems inc. a0:88:69 # intel corporate a0:88:b4 # intel corporate a0:98:ed # shandong intelligent optical communication development co., ltd. a0:a8:cd # intel corporate a4:02:b9 # intel corporate a4:1f:72 # dell inc. a4:34:d9 # intel corporate a4:4e:31 # intel corporate a4:ba:db # dell inc. a4:c4:94 # intel corporate a4:de:c9 # qlove mobile intelligence information technology w.h. co. ltd. ac:72:89 # intel corporate ac:7b:a1 # intel corporate ac:fd:ce # intel corporate b0:59:47 # shenzhen qihu intelligent technology company limited b0:83:fe # dell inc b4:6d:83 # intel corporate b4:b6:76 # intel corporate b8:03:05 # intel corporate b8:08:cf # intel corporate b8:2a:72 # dell inc b8:8a:60 # intel corporate b8:ac:6f # dell inc b8:b8:1e # intel corporate b8:bf:83 # intel corporate b8:ca:3a # dell inc bc:0f:64 # intel corporate bc:30:5b # dell inc. bc:77:37 # intel corporate

c4:85:08 # intel corporate c4:d9:87 # intel corporate c8:1f:66 # dell inc c8:34:8e # intel corporate c8:f7:33 # intel corporate cc:2a:80 # micro-biz intelligence solutions co.,ltd cc:3d:82 # intel corporate d0:43:1e # dell inc. d0:67:e5 # dell inc d0:7e:35 # intel corporate d4:01:29 # Broadcom Corporation d4:ae:52 # dell d4:ae:52 # dell inc d4:be:d9 # dell d4:be:d9 # dell inc d4:c9:ef # hp d4:ec:86 # linkedhope intelligent technologies co., ltd d8:9d:67 # hp d8:9e:3f # apple d8:a2:5e # apple d8:fc:93 # intel corporate dc:15:db # ge ruili intelligent technology dc:53:60 # intel corporate dc:a9:71 # intel corporate e0:3e:44 # Broadcom Corporation e0:61:b2 # hangzhou zeno intel technology co., ltd e0:94:67 # intel corporate e0:9d:31 # intel corporate e0:db:55 # dell inc e4:f8:9c # intel corporate e4:fa:fd # intel corporate e8:2a:ea # intel corporate e8:b1:fc # intel corporate ec:23:68 # intellivoice co.,ltd. ec:f4:bb # dell inc f0:1f:af # dell inc f0:4d:a2 # dell inc. f4:06:69 # intel corporate f8:16:54 # intel corporate f8:b1:56 # dell inc f8:bc:12 # dell inc f8:ca:b8 # dell inc. f8:db:88 # dell inc fc:8f:c4 # intelligent technology inc. fc:f8:ae # intel corporate )

# if [ $# -eq 0 ] # then # echo -n "Enter new MAC: " # read $newMAC # else RANGE=$((${#OUIArray[@]} + 1)) i=$RANDOM let "i %= $RANGE" OUI=${OUIArray[$i]}

# generate a new NIC specific identifier NIC=$(date | md5sum | sed 's/../&:/g' | cut -b 9-17) newMAC="$OUI$NIC" # fi

echo "new MAC: $newMAC"

# Offer to replace old mac addr with the new echo "Do you wish to assign $newMAC to $devID?" echo "Press 1 to assign $newMAC to $devID? (otherwise press 2)" select yn in "Yes" "No" ; do case $yn in Yes ) $priv ifconfig $devID down sleep 2 # allow interface to go down $priv ifconfig $devID hw ether $newMAC sleep 2 # allow time to assign MAC to interface $priv ifconfig $devID up && $priv ifconfig $devID | grep HWaddr break ;; No ) exit 0 ;; esac done

## END ##

Reply to
Alice J.

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