Are we all handing to Google the SSID of our home routers?

I think Jeff explained that the MAC address that we can clone is not the same MAC address that google saves.

We clone the WAN MAC address, which is always behind a modem or transceiver so everyone could have the same WAN MAC address I think.

But, Jeff explained that Google doesn't save your WAN MAC address. Google saves the LAN MAC address.

That LAN MAC address can't be cloned, and, it's an important part of keeping the neighbors out of your WiFi, so, it wouldn't work if everyone had the same LAN MAC address.

Sigh.

Reply to
Alice J.
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So it is writ by Alice J. , so mote it be.

I don't think so. The MAC address that your router broadcasts is the one shown as the BSSID of that access point/router. The LAN and WAN MACs are separate from the wireless MAC.

If several Wi-Fi networks in an area all showed the same BSSID they would cause collisions among and between all of the networks. You might be able to keep it all straight by handing control over to a neighborhood network administrator. Just be sure to address him as the BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell).

All this to avoid having your browsing habits aggregated by Google? Perhaps you should use a wired only network at home.

Mike "Google and Android or Apple and, well, Apple" Yetto

Reply to
Mike Yetto

So it is writ by Alice J. , so mote it be.

Actually it is the Wireless LAN address not the wired LAN address. You can see this as the BSSID on your phone if you install something like the "Wifi Analyzer" app.

Mike "if you could do it you wouldn't want to" Yetto

Reply to
Mike Yetto

So it is writ by Alice J. , so mote it be.

The BSSID is a unique label, not security, for the access point of the network.

Mike "that pass-phrase keeps looking more important" Yetto

Reply to
Mike Yetto

Like I previously mumbled, the typical home router only allows you to change the WAN (internet) MAC address to allow the ISP to use the MAC address for authentication. You normally cannot change the LAN side MAC addresses, which includes the Wi-Fi port (which is on the LAN side).

Incidentally, if you're going to spoof MAC addresses, at least make the first octet one of the locally administered numbers found in the above URL's.

A modem (modulator/demodulator) mostly lives on the VC or LLC bottom half of OSI Layer 2. It does not usually have a MAC address normally associated with the top half of Layer 2. The only reason modems have MAC addresses is because it's required by the LAN or management ethernet port. Even so, the ISP will see the router MAC address, not the MAC address of the modem.

Incidentally, in the dark ages of internet, we had USB DSL modems that didn't have an ethernet port. These also didn't have a MAC address anywhere in sight. Also, when using SLIP or PPP over a dialup modem, the ISP again only sees the MAC address of the router, because dialup modems don't have MAC addresses.

Incidentally, the current 48 bit MAC address morphs into a 64 bit (EUI-64) MAC address under IPv6.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I'm from an early generation that used "Curses... foiled again". I think the current explitive is "Bummer".

Yes, I can. However, a late dinner beckons.

Yep. "...Street View software to collect so-called payload data, which includes telephone numbers, URLs, passwords, e-mail, text messages, medical records, video and audio files sent over open Wi-Fi networks."

"A year later, when our mobile team started a project to collect basic WiFi network data like SSID information

included that code in their software, although the project leaders did not want, and had no intention of using, payload data."

Sure... accidental. That's about as accidental as the numerous accidental attempts by Microsoft to accidentally upgrade Win 7 and 8.1 users to Win 10. I've been unable to find exactly what data Google is CURRENTLY collecting with Street View.

Incidentally, you can visit your data online: It's in there, somewhere...

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Thank you for clarifying. That was my mistake. Google sees the BSSID (i.e., MAC address) of the *wireless* LAN. Unfortunately, we can't easily change *that* MAC address. (Sigh)

BTW, I have lots of apps that show the SSID/BSSID such as these which I recommend to others in the order shown ...

Wifi Analyzer, by farproc

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WiFi SNR, by Javali Inc.

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inSSIDer, by MetaGeek

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FRITZ!App WLAN, by AVM GmbH

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Reply to
Alice J.

Again, I was wrong. Thank you for clarifying. I was thinking that we clone MAC addresses on the router all the time and it causes no problem.

But, Jeff (and you) explained we only clone the WAN wired MAC address while Google is stealing our LAN wireless addresses.

May I presume that Google steals both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz BSSID's?

Reply to
Alice J.

Yes. You are correct. But my point was that the MAC *is* unique darnit. That's bad for privacy to have a unique number.

I'd much prefer Jeff's suggestion of changing it, but he explained that it's not as easy as just cloning the WAN MAC address is.

Sigh.

Changing the SSID monthly is looking better and better.

Reply to
Alice J.

My mistake. I later realized my folly. It was wishful thinking, on my part, that we could change the MAC address that Google gets from our phones (not mine) and those of our neighbors.

I just wish my neighbors didn't throw me under the bus.

Reply to
Alice J.

Jeff Liebermann wrote in message snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Here's the script someone posted on the unix newsgroup that I use to change the mac address daily of my laptop.

It uses a randomized OIC ...

#!/bin/bash ################################################# # # Script: changemac.sh # written by: Marek Novotny # modified by: Tom # version: 0.4 # date: 2015-10-17 # notes: MAC Address Changing Kubuntu # See also:

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#
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# In the future, change the MAC address in /etc/network/interfaces. # That way, the interface starts up with fake mac. # When the interface goes down it gets re-configured. # You can put the hide_me script in /etc/if-pre-up.d # and the change would go in before the interface comes up.

# use sudo if you're not root (add ifconfig to sudoers.d) if [ $(id -u) != 0 ] ; then priv="sudo" else priv="" fi

# grab the NIC interface (e.g., devID=wlan0) # WIP: Add a check if device ID is "tun0", don't change it devID=$(ip route get 8.8.8.8 | awk 'NR==1 {print $5}') # Get the device MAC address MACaddr=$(ifconfig $devID | grep HWaddr | awk '{print $5}') echo "old MAC: $MACaddr"

# Set up a list of organizationally unique identifiers OUI #

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OUIArray=( 00:01:2a # telematica sistems inteligente 00:02:b3 # intel corporation 00:03:47 # intel corporation 00:04:23 # intel corporation 00:04:3a # intelligent telecommunications, inc. 00:05:b5 # Broadcom Technologies 00:06:5b # dell computer corp. 00:07:e9 # intel corporation 00:08:1a # sanrad intelligence storage communications 2000 ltd. 00:08:74 # dell computer corp. 00:09:58 # intelnet s.a. 00:0a:f7 # Broadcom Corp. 00:0b:db # dell inc 00:0c:c7 # intelligent computer solutions inc. 00:0c:f1 # intel corporation 00:0d:56 # dell inc 00:0d:b6 # Broadcom Corporation 00:0e:0c # intel corporation 00:0e:35 # intel corp 00:0f:1f # dell inc 00:10:18 # BroadCOM CORPORATION 00:10:e6 # applied intelligent systems, inc. 00:11:11 # intel corporation 00:11:43 # dell inc 00:11:75 # intel corporation 00:11:76 # intellambda systems, inc. 00:12:3f # dell inc 00:12:f0 # intel 00:12:f0 # intel corporate 00:13:02 # intel corporate 00:13:20 # intel corporate 00:13:72 # dell inc 00:13:b1 # intelligent control systems asia pte ltd 00:13:ce # intel corporate 00:13:e8 # intel corporate 00:14:22 # dell inc 00:14:4d # intelligent systems 00:15:00 # intel corporate 00:15:17 # intel corporate 00:15:1f # multivision intelligent surveillance hong kong ltd 00:15:c5 # dell inc 00:16:6f # intel corporate 00:16:76 # intel corporate 00:16:ea # intel corporate 00:16:eb # intel corporate 00:16:f0 # dell 00:18:8b # dell inc 00:18:de # intel corporate 00:19:00 # intelliverese - dba voicecom 00:19:25 # intelicis corporation 00:19:b4 # intellio ltd 00:19:b9 # dell inc. 00:19:d1 # intel corporate 00:19:d2 # intel corporate 00:1a:3f # intelbras 00:1a:a0 # dell inc 00:1b:0a # intelligent distributed controls ltd 00:1b:21 # intel corporate 00:1b:77 # intel corporate 00:1b:b2 # intellect international nv 00:1b:e9 # Broadcom Corporation 00:1b:f9 # intellitect water ltd 00:1c:23 # dell inc 00:1c:bf # intel 00:1c:bf # intel corporate 00:1c:c0 # intel corporate 00:1d:09 # dell 00:1d:09 # dell inc 00:1d:40 # intel ? ge care innovations llc 00:1d:e0 # intel corporate 00:1d:e1 # intel corporate 00:1e:4f # dell inc. 00:1e:64 # intel corporate 00:1e:65 # intel corporate 00:1e:67 # intel corporate 00:1e:c9 # dell inc 00:1f:0c # intelligent digital services gmbh 00:1f:3b # intel corporate 00:1f:3c # intel corporate 00:20:7b # intel corporation 00:21:5c # intel corporate 00:21:5d # intel corporate 00:21:6a # intel corporate 00:21:6b # intel corporate 00:21:70 # dell inc 00:21:9b # dell inc 00:22:19 # dell inc 00:22:46 # evoc intelligent technology co.,ltd. 00:22:e6 # intelligent data 00:22:fa # intel corporate 00:22:fb # intel corporate 00:23:14 # intel corporate 00:23:15 # intel corporate 00:23:ae # dell inc. 00:23:b2 # intelligent mechatronic systems inc 00:24:d6 # intel corporate 00:24:d7 # intel corporate 00:24:e8 # dell inc. 00:24:ea # iris-gmbh infrared & intelligent sensors 00:25:64 # dell inc. 00:25:bd # italdata ingegneria dell'idea s.p.a. 00:26:21 # intelicloud technology inc. 00:26:b9 # dell inc 00:26:c6 # intel corporate 00:26:c7 # intel corporate 00:26:fd # interactive intelligence 00:27:0e # intel corporate 00:27:10 # intel corporate 00:30:72 # intellibyte inc. 00:50:f1 # intel corporation 00:60:aa # intelligent devices inc. idi 00:6b:a0 # shenzhen universal intellisys pte ltd 00:80:53 # intellicom, inc. 00:90:27 # intel corporation 00:a0:c9 # intel corporation - hf1-06 00:aa:00 # intel corporation 00:aa:01 # intel corporation 00:aa:02 # intel corporation 00:b0:d0 # dell computer corp. 00:c0:4f # dell computer corporation 00:c2:c6 # intel corporate 00:d0:5d # intelliworxx, inc. 00:d0:b7 # intel corporation 00:db:df # intel corporate 04:9b:9c # eadingcore intelligent technology co., ltd. 08:11:96 # intel corporate 08:3f:76 # intellian technologies, inc. 08:d4:0c # intel corporate 0c:8b:fd # intel corporate 0c:d2:92 # intel corporate 10:02:b5 # intel corporate 10:0b:a9 # intel corporate 10:4a:7d # intel corporate 10:98:36 # dell inc. 14:18:77 # dell inc 14:1b:f0 # intellimedia systems ltd 14:fe:b5 # dell inc 18:03:73 # dell inc 18:06:75 # dilax intelcom gmbh 18:3d:a2 # intel corporate 18:5e:0f # intel corporate 18:a9:9b # dell inc 18:c0:86 # Broadcom Corporation 18:fb:7b # dell inc 18:ff:0f # intel corporate 1c:40:24 # dell inc 20:47:47 # dell inc. 24:6e:96 # dell inc. 24:77:03 # intel corporate 24:97:ed # techvision intelligent technology limited 24:b6:fd # dell inc 28:b2:bd # intel corporate 28:c8:25 # dellking industrial co., ltd 2c:6e:85 # intel corporate 30:3a:64 # intel corporate 34:02:86 # intel corporate 34:13:e8 # intel corporate 34:17:eb # dell inc 34:de:1a # intel corporate 34:e6:ad # intel corporate 34:e6:d7 # dell inc. 3c:a9:f4 # intel corporate 3c:fd:fe # intel corporate 40:25:c2 # intel corporate 44:1e:91 # arvida intelligent electronics technology co.,ltd. 44:85:00 # intel corporate 44:a8:42 # dell inc. 48:45:20 # intel corporate 48:51:b7 # intel corporate 4c:34:88 # intel corporate 4c:76:25 # dell inc. 4c:79:ba # intel corporate 4c:80:93 # intel corporate 4c:eb:42 # intel corporate 50:2d:a2 # intel corporate 50:45:f7 # liuhe intelligence technology ltd. 54:9f:35 # dell inc. 58:10:8c # intelbras 58:91:cf # intel corporate 58:94:6b # intel corporate 58:a8:39 # intel corporate 5c:26:0a # dell inc. 5c:51:4f # intel corporate 5c:c5:d4 # intel corporate 5c:d2:e4 # intel corporate 5c:e0:c5 # intel corporate 5c:f9:dd # dell inc 60:36:dd # intel corporate 60:46:16 # xiamen vann intelligent co., ltd 60:57:18 # intel corporate 60:67:20 # intel corporate 60:6c:66 # intel corporate 64:00:6a # dell inc. 64:55:63 # intelight inc. 64:80:99 # intel corporate 64:d4:da # intel corporate 68:05:ca # intel corporate 68:17:29 # intel corporate 68:3c:7d # magic intelligence technology limited 68:5d:43 # intel corporate 6c:29:95 # intel corporate 6c:88:14 # intel corporate 6c:a1:00 # intel corporate 70:93:83 # intelligent optical network high tech co.,ltd. 74:86:7a # dell inc 74:e5:0b # intel corporate 74:e6:e2 # dell inc. 78:0c:b8 # intel corporate 78:2b:cb # dell inc 78:3d:5b # telnet redes inteligentes s.a. 78:45:c4 # dell inc 78:92:9c # intel corporate 78:ff:57 # intel corporate 7c:5c:f8 # intel corporate 7c:7a:91 # intel corporate 7c:cc:b8 # intel corporate 7c:cf:cf # shanghai seari intelligent system co., ltd 80:00:0b # intel corporate 80:19:34 # intel corporate 80:86:f2 # intel corporate 80:9b:20 # intel corporate 80:a1:ab # intellisis 84:2b:2b # dell inc. 84:2b:bc # modelleisenbahn gmbh 84:3a:4b # intel corporate 84:73:03 # letv mobile and intelligent information technology beijing corporation ltd. 84:8f:69 # dell inc. 84:a6:c8 # intel corporate 88:53:2e # intel corporate 88:cb:a5 # suzhou torchstar intelligent technology co.,ltd 8c:70:5a # intel corporate 8c:a9:82 # intel corporate 90:2e:1c # intel corporate 90:49:fa # intel corporation 90:b1:1c # dell inc. 90:e2:ba # intel corporate 94:65:9c # intel corporate 94:f1:9e # huizhou maorong intelligent technology co.,ltd 98:4f:ee # intel corporate 98:90:96 # dell inc 9c:31:78 # foshan huadian intelligent communications teachnologies co.,ltd 9c:4e:36 # intel corporate a0:36:9f # intel corporate a0:6d:09 # intelcan technosystems inc. a0:88:69 # intel corporate a0:88:b4 # intel corporate a0:98:ed # shandong intelligent optical communication development co., ltd. a0:a8:cd # intel corporate a4:02:b9 # intel corporate a4:1f:72 # dell inc. a4:34:d9 # intel corporate a4:4e:31 # intel corporate a4:ba:db # dell inc. a4:c4:94 # intel corporate a4:de:c9 # qlove mobile intelligence information technology w.h. co. ltd. ac:72:89 # intel corporate ac:7b:a1 # intel corporate ac:fd:ce # intel corporate b0:59:47 # shenzhen qihu intelligent technology company limited b0:83:fe # dell inc b4:6d:83 # intel corporate b4:b6:76 # intel corporate b8:03:05 # intel corporate b8:08:cf # intel corporate b8:2a:72 # dell inc b8:8a:60 # intel corporate b8:ac:6f # dell inc b8:b8:1e # intel corporate b8:bf:83 # intel corporate b8:ca:3a # dell inc bc:0f:64 # intel corporate bc:30:5b # dell inc. bc:77:37 # intel corporate

c4:85:08 # intel corporate c4:d9:87 # intel corporate c8:1f:66 # dell inc c8:34:8e # intel corporate c8:f7:33 # intel corporate cc:2a:80 # micro-biz intelligence solutions co.,ltd cc:3d:82 # intel corporate d0:43:1e # dell inc. d0:67:e5 # dell inc d0:7e:35 # intel corporate d4:01:29 # Broadcom Corporation d4:ae:52 # dell d4:ae:52 # dell inc d4:be:d9 # dell d4:be:d9 # dell inc d4:c9:ef # hp d4:ec:86 # linkedhope intelligent technologies co., ltd d8:9d:67 # hp d8:9e:3f # apple d8:a2:5e # apple d8:fc:93 # intel corporate dc:15:db # ge ruili intelligent technology dc:53:60 # intel corporate dc:a9:71 # intel corporate e0:3e:44 # Broadcom Corporation e0:61:b2 # hangzhou zeno intel technology co., ltd e0:94:67 # intel corporate e0:9d:31 # intel corporate e0:db:55 # dell inc e4:f8:9c # intel corporate e4:fa:fd # intel corporate e8:2a:ea # intel corporate e8:b1:fc # intel corporate ec:23:68 # intellivoice co.,ltd. ec:f4:bb # dell inc f0:1f:af # dell inc f0:4d:a2 # dell inc. f4:06:69 # intel corporate f8:16:54 # intel corporate f8:b1:56 # dell inc f8:bc:12 # dell inc f8:ca:b8 # dell inc. f8:db:88 # dell inc fc:8f:c4 # intelligent technology inc. fc:f8:ae # intel corporate )

# if [ $# -eq 0 ] # then # echo -n "Enter new MAC: " # read $newMAC # else RANGE=$((${#OUIArray[@]} + 1)) i=$RANDOM let "i %= $RANGE" OUI=${OUIArray[$i]}

# generate a new NIC specific identifier NIC=$(date | md5sum | sed 's/../&:/g' | cut -b 9-17) newMAC="$OUI$NIC" # fi

echo "new MAC: $newMAC"

# Offer to replace old mac addr with the new echo "Do you wish to assign $newMAC to $devID?" echo "Press 1 to assign $newMAC to $devID? (otherwise press 2)" select yn in "Yes" "No" ; do case $yn in Yes ) $priv ifconfig $devID down sleep 2 # allow interface to go down $priv ifconfig $devID hw ether $newMAC sleep 2 # allow time to assign MAC to interface $priv ifconfig $devID up && $priv ifconfig $devID | grep HWaddr break ;; No ) exit 0 ;; esac done

## END ##

Reply to
Alice J.

Hey! Maybe that's why Comcast *requires* a MAC address to be cloned in my kid's router?

Reply to
Alice J.

???????? ummm ... I mean .... Bummer!

Reply to
Alice J.

Maybe, but I don't think so. Comcast formerly required registering the MAC address. However, that was years ago and should no longer be the case. What you're probably seeing is that Comcast does not like having the MAC address change. The ARP table in the router, which is what relates the MAC address to an associated IP address, requires some time to reset. I run into this problem all the time when juggling different cable modems and routers. You have to power OFF the cable modem for about 10-15 minutes, before connecting a new cable modem. I've heard rumors that it's now down to about 5 minutes, but I haven't test it yet.

There's also a similar problem between the cable modem and router, if they are two separate boxes. The cable modem stores exactly one MAC address, which is the device that it connects to, in this case the router. Similarly, the router WAN port only stores one MAC address, which is presumably the cable modem ethernet MAC address. This is why connecting a switch or hub to a cable modem doesn't work. With only one MAC address, you only can connect to one IP address. Anyway, when changing modems or routers, turn them BOTH OFF, wait a few seconds for things to discharge in the boxes, and then turn them both back on. Otherwise, the boxes will have the unrelated MAC address of the previously connected boxes in memory, which will not work. The reason that cloning the MAC address in the router seems to help is that all your boxes having the same MAC address, juggling boxes does not change the MAC addresses so everything works.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I set up this with my kid at college last September and I do NOT remember Comcast *asking* for a MAC address. This jives with what you said above.

Again, my kid's observation jives with what you said. The kid said the cloning must be done after hooking up the computer to the modem or when the modem or router is disconnected and then turned back on, but not all the time.

I don't get a clear story, but the fix when it happens is always to clone the MAC address.

When I was last up there, I disconnected the router & modem to move them, and then the Internet didn't work. I only had them unplugged for a minute.

Called the router company (TP-Link) and they had us clone the Mac and that worked to get the Internet back up and running.

So, would this work?

  1. Turn off everything.
  2. Wait the prescribed period (whatever it is)
  3. Turn on cable modem (and wait a while)
  4. Turn on router (and wait a while)
  5. Turn on laptop (and wait a while).
Reply to
Alice J.

I haven't had to clone the MAC address in many years. In the distant past, when it was about 15 minutes, I sometimes had to call Comcast support and have them remove my MAC address from the ARP table in the CMTS (cable modem termination system). That required 2nd level support, which did take some time. My guess(tm) is that the power wasn't off on the modem long enough.

One minute is not long enough. I did some Googling and didn't find a definitive time interval. The last modem swap I did (leased Arris TM722 traded for customer owned TM822) methinks took about 10 mins.

Fine. If you're curious if I'm right, just set the MAC address back to the default, pull the plug, wait 15 or more minutes, plug it back in, and see if it works. It should.

Yes, that's probably the ideal method. However, turning on the modem, router, and laptop at the same time will probably also be ok. The only part that might get screwed up is if the DHCP client in the laptop times out. For Linux you might have to do some of this:

Some devices, such as laptops, have WOL (Wake On LAN), where the ethernet power remains on when the device is turned off. Some routers, and media players also have WOL. If that's the case, you need to physically remove the power plug and possibly the battery to reset the ethernet card.

Many Comcast modems and router have a built in battery, especially when if they have built in VoIP (EMTA). For these, you have to either press the reset push button, or temporarily remove the battery as pulling the power plug does nothing.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

That's not a physical location though is it, that was the point I was making.

Reply to
cl

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 11:14:07 +0000 it happened:

Isn't it within a few feet of your location, based on the GPS coordinates listed in your phone?

So, that's pretty physical, isn't it?

Reply to
Dave Celt

That's sort of where I came in, I always keep the GPS turned off in my phone, so all that's available is proximity to microwave tower.

Reply to
cl

I don't know exactly what a device broadcasts when trying to auto-connect; the MAC number of the access point being sought would be better than the SSID as SSIDs aren't unique but MACs are supposed to be. Access points that aren't hiding their SSIDs tell everyone within range both pieces of information.

Disabling auto-connect should make your presence a little less obvious.

You can't hide your presence when connecting to a WiFi access point. The best you can do is disguise yourself - eg give your network card a new MAC every time you use it, or only use a device once then discard it.

Reply to
Whiskers

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