Re: [Telecom] 11X and N11 Codes (was 911 not universal)

In Carlisle, Pa (United Telephone of Pa) in the 60s and 70s, long distance dialing required 112 plus a party identification digit. This was on a Kellog K-60 crossbar system, and was in use until 1974 when they cut over to a rather bizarre North Electric NX1-E computer- controlled crossbar switch. In nearby Perry County DDD was 12 plus party digit, and operator-assisted LD calls were 10 plus party digit.

Steve Gaarder

Reply to
stevegaarder
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I remember Bell TV ads in Dallas in the early 70's, talking up the availability of DDD. I remember a clown with a broom, and a jingle that went something like "Dial 1, plus the area code -- if it's different from your own -- and then the number." Anybody else remember those ads? Were they just SWBell, or AT&T?

I was too young to be making LD calls, so I have no idea what the procedure was before that. I do remember, though, several friends in high school (ca. 1978-79) having to change their numbers in order to get touch-tone.

--=20 Linc Madison * San Francisco, California * Telecom at Linc Mad d0t c0m URL: <

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> * North American Area Codes & Splits Read my political blog, "The Third Path" US, California, and Washington State laws apply to LINCMAD.COM e-mail.

Reply to
Linc Madison

We didn't have TV ads that I recall. Despite the standardization of the Bell System, different companies (even different regions within one company) had latitude in the kind of advertising they did. Also the design of the front section of telephone directories with the dialing instructions varied from place to place.

But you bring up something interesting. Back then the system was set up that you only dialed an area code if it was different than your own, it rejected your call if you dialed your own area code.

Today many places have overlays and you must dial your own area code.

But for places that don't have overlays, do they accept your own area code? I know one place that does. I think maybe now they have it set up to take an area code just to be consistent with other places.

That was common in the early days of Touch Tone. Many central offices in larger towns and cities had multiple exchanges out of theml; I might be APpletree-8 and you could be APpletree-9. When TT came along only one of the exchanges was equipped with the equipment. If you happened to already be in that exchange you were ok, but anyone else needed a new number.

Reply to
hancock4

They're supposed to. You should be able to dial 1+10D anywhere and have it work. This issue arose when people started carrying laptops around that had fax numbers programmed into their phonebooks.

I have heard that in parts of Texas with overlays, you are required to dial 10D for local calls, and 1+10D doesn't work. But I find it hard to believe that even Texans are that stupid.

R's, John

Reply to
John L

I remember Rochester (NY) Telephone in the '70s and their #5XB-equipped exchanges using 1+.

Moving southwest around Jamestown gave us another independent telco which would grow up to be Windstream. Anyway, the SxS in Randolph, about

17 miles or so east of Jamestown, had us use 120+. No ANI there. One of their operators would cut in and ask for our billing. I presumed they would key in our 10 digits for their billing system.

All that came to a stop in April 1978 when Randolph got the first DMS-10 installed anywhere in upstate NY. We all went to 1+, but our eight-party selective ringing line still demanded manual number identification.

Getting a private line out there finally allowed ANI to work in the manner intended. I think it took until about 1990 for then-Alltel to get their DMS-100/200 installed so the toll handling wasn't so primitive and all fully SS7 signaled. I remember calling Buffalo from there and hearing the old toll setup's sender MF pulse 7 digits, with a bit longer of a delay between the last digit and the ST tone pair.

Reply to
Curtis R Anderson

Buffalo does. I had received a call from my mother in PA, and when stepping through the caller ID display, I pressed "format" to put the 1 first and called her from the number in the display.

Then I called my woman who was working that day. I stepped to her last call, not realizing the format was still in 10 digits, and when pressing the switchhook button, I heard the phone dial 10 digits. The #5ESS took it in stride.

It might have something to do with all those overlays in NYC and our Public Services Commission mandating it statewide.

Reply to
Curtis R Anderson

It wasn't just Texas and it wasn't really stupid... Many parts of the country (Bell & GTE) used 1+ to mean toll call follows, not area code follows. It was very common to dial 1+ 7D for calls within the same area code that were outside your local calling area and 1+ 10D for out of area toll calls. And just to make things interesting, some communities near area code borders could call each other as a 10D local call.

In some those communities you would get a recording if you attempted to dial a local call (7D or 10D) with 1+ where the recording stated it wasn't a toll call and you were told to redial.

That made sense when toll calls were expensive. As you stated, the advent of computer dialers, programable fax machines and cheap long distance rates make a warning about a toll call less important and the ability to dial with a common dial plan (1+ 10D) for all calls regardless of local or toll status, more useful.

I've not heard of anyone blocking 1+10D recently...

Reply to
Rick Blaine

About twenty years ago, Bell tried an overlay and forced new accounts to the new overlay. There was a discrimination lawsuit over that claiming of implying business with new numbers were not thus in business for a long time.

In the Dallas area, its a mess. In 1996, the 214 was split up for a surburbian 972; but in 1999 when the 469 overlay was added, the 972 was converted into an overlay.

The 940 area code is really weird. Its a long distance call (1+10D) to a town 10 miles north, but a local 10D call to a town 30 miles east. In some areas, its a 7D call. THEN you have a few businesses that have a mix of numbers that when calling a town only five miles away, it would allow 10D dialing from one line, but required 1+10D for line. In one county, 940 covers the entire county with local dialing, where both 7D and 10D will work for the same called number.

"Texas - It's Like a Whole Other Country."

Reply to
DTC

That was the case in Providence, RI back in 1973. Before we moved we=20 couldn't get Touch Tone (401-521) but when we moved we got it on 401-

751. I remember that our home phone had the precise dialtone, whereas=20 the phone at my grandparents house still had the Panel dialtone.=20
Reply to
T

All of New York does, since we have reasonable rules about dialing, i.e., in non-overlay areas you dial 7D within the area code regardless of local or toll, and 1+10D anywhere.

About 10 years ago, I noticed that my small independent telco was misrating local calls dialed with 1+10D as toll calls. I pointed it out, and it was clear that the routing table in the switch was wrong, and they were defaulting to the toll trunks to what was then NYNEX, which ran them through the toll tandem and then sent them back. Oops. That took about

15 minutes to fix.

Does anyone know whether NYC still requires 1+10D for all calls? They set it up that way in 1999 when they added overlays, since that was the only way to do 7D -> 10D transition without ambiguity. Now it's been nearly a decade, and the 1+ is a complete waste of time. NANPA says the 1+ is optional on local calls and still required on toll calls, but they've been wrong before, particularly in situations like this where some calls into

914 and 516 are local from some parts of NYC but not others.

Regards, John Levine, snipped-for-privacy@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be,

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ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.

Reply to
John L

But since 1995, 1+ **ALWAYS** **ALWAYS** **ALWAYS** means area code follows. In some places, it *ALSO* means toll.

Not really, not even then, except where the equipment was too dumb to zero-bill a local call dialed with the toll prefix. Even when a minute of long distance cost the better part of an hour's wage, I can't see people cowering in fear of opening the bill to find out that something they thought might cost money, turned out to be free.

In the 21st century, if there's a town of more than a couple dozen people with a switch that (when correctly programmed) couldn't handle

1+10d for a local call, billed as local, I'm shocked.

I've not heard of Texas (or Georgia, or any of the various other idiot state PUCs that have blocked 1+ local in the past) *unblocking* it recently.

--=20 Linc Madison * San Francisco, California * Telecom at Linc Mad d0t c0m URL: <

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> * North American Area Codes & Splits Read my political blog, "The Third Path" US, California, and Washington State laws apply to LINCMAD.COM e-mail.

Reply to
Linc Madison

Actually cross border callers could dial only 7 digits. That meant the exchange had to be unique in both area codes. When exchanges got scarce that practice ended.

We used to have 1+7D for toll calls within the area code. But now we are 10 digits for all calls, no 1 prefix is nececessary within the home area (I guess the LATA, which is a number of area codes now), toll or not. Long distance, I guess cross LATA, requires 1+.

But in the state next door they have splits only, and the remaining slivers can be rather long. It gets fairly complex. One could dial

1+10 d for a cross border call which deemed local, or one could dial 7D for a call that's within the area code but crossing a LATA and is toll.

It used to be easy to know what someone's area code was by where they lived, but with so many splits and overlays that's impossible now.

The definition of a toll call is very confusing today. It used to be very clearly defined and the Operator could tell you if it was and the rates for it. Only businesses that had outward WATS lines needn't worry about that (and they still had boundaries to know).

But now the local baby-bell carriers offer a great variety of plans, including relatively cheap nation-wide unlimited service for the home. There still remains the confusion between regional toll calls by the home baby-bell and long distance toll calls by a long distance company. What is a serious toll for you may be free for me.

Many businesses still restrict outgoing toll calls. While even a modest sized business could get some sort of long distance deal, the meter is still running and too many calls causes it to add up. Admittedly, some of the restrictions are outdated or arbitrary, but they remain in force. Some businesses still block local calls.

(Years ago PBXs blocked toll calls from most extensions and local calls from many extensions. Local call restriction was a feature offered very early on in dial PBXs.)

Some baby-bell coin toll calls are very expensive, even though some (such as in NYC), offer 25c minute anywhere US calls. (I should experiment at my local pay phones to try their rates for various regional calls.)

To make it even more confusing, some low-use cell phone plans have their own restrictions. My old analog cell phone plan allowed free regional calling and a 9c/minute (plus airtime) for long distance. The regional calling for me at the time covered a wide area and saved money offpeak. Even the toll rate was cheaper. But then I got national unlimited at home, and it's much nicer to use a real phone than the cell phone.

Reply to
hancock4

I grew up in Tampa (GTE Florida territory). When I'd called, say, Pinellas County, a toll-call, I dialed 1+7D. 7D didn't work and I seem to recall 1-813+7D didn't work.

Note at the time all of southwestern Florida was in the 813 NPA.

Reply to
John Mayson

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