want to see Bass trying to get out of an argument that he cant win?

Wow! All I need to do is stop paying the pool guy and I'll have an endless supply in a matter of weeks.

Hardly. It takes alot of Algae just to make a single gallon of ethanol.

Jim Rojas

I haven't really kept track of that at all. But when I heard what they were doing with the buy-backs, the first thing I wondered was who were they going to sell all the trade-in's to? Are they just going to put them all out in the Used car sales lot and sell them to whoever wants them? Are they going to export them? If so ....... what the hell is the point!

How do you spell boondoggle! or ......Now you see it, now you don't? Or ...... Guess what hand it's in? ummm Which shell is the pea under?

All of which winds up with the public getting the same results as from ........ "Pull my finger!"

What they are suppose to do is pour some kind of mixture to seize the engine, then scrap it all. But being our govt what it is, I'd say many of those cars mysteriously made it to Mexico.

Jim Rojas

Exactly! and the process to make that gallon will use way more energy than that gallon of ethanol can produce

Florida is loaded with lakes infested with Algae. Large enough local supply to get started. All that is needed to extract the ethanol is a press.

Oil on the other hand has to be processed and separated in into its usable forms. Diesel, gasoline, propane, etc. All heavy polluters, but let's forget that minor issue.

We already have the technology available that can convert any carbon based waste item into oil. There is a plant in PA doing that as we speak. The only problem with the plant is that it does not solve our pollution problem. Sure it can replace oil because it uses the same technology we use to create a Cubic Zaconia...HEAT & PRESSURE.

The earth has had a 3+ billion year head start on us producing oil from plant and animal matter. It took us less than 100 years to consume over half of it. How much time do you say we have left? Why wait until it causes a global depression we cannot get out of?

Jim Rojas

Hardly, they can't block anything in committee and they can't filibuster, any delays are coming from the other side, looks like "the community organizer" isn't doing his job

If it were all that easy we'd be doing it, this isn't a conspiracy with oil companies. Fact is the process is expensive and nobody will pay for it including you

Actually, I do pay for it. I stopped buying gasoline 3 years ago. My

2004 Ford Explorer Flexfuel runs just fine on E100 biomass ethanol.

This ethanol was first produced locally for the gasoline industry as an additive. Then the local counties started using it for their fleets. Then bus companies. Eventually it trickled down to contractors.

Consumers will usually pay the same rate as 87 octane fuel. Since it only costs about 75 cents a gallon to produce in these smaller amounts, it makes me wonder why big oil don't jump on this cheap alternative as a mainstream cash cow.

Jim Rojas

Maybe they're just not properly mooooo-divated. :-)

Customers pay the same rate as 87 octane fuel because of large government subsidies, get rid of that and it all falls apart because there is no money in producing it and even if it was profitable it's impossible to grow enough product to be self sufficient, you'd have to import massive amounts kinda like what we now do with oil.

Nope. The facility that makes the ethanol is privately owned and operated, and get zero subsidies. They do have an agreement with the county that allows them free access to all the biomass they can haul away at no charge. That could be considered a subsidy, depending on your point of view. Local landscaping businesses that deal in huge amounts of yard waste get to dump it at the facility for free, where the county charges by the pound.

The facility is located in an old run down industrial area. Many businesses closed their doors many years ago, or abandoned the area altogether. They might be getting a huge break in rent from the county owned land.

Jim Rojas

That one may not be subsidized but the majority of the Ethanol industry is

Find out how much Ethanol that plant can produce, how much energy to produce it and then look at the overall population of the Tampa area, even with hundreds of plants like that there is no hope of getting enough product to power cars much less anything else

From what I have briefly seen, they use some of the biomass mash to fuel the boilers. They have 4 12K+ gallon tanker trucks on site for deliveries. There is one aboveground tank with 4 pumps for local sales. There is always someone there filling up several 55 gallon barrels at any given time. The facility is open 24/7. My 2 55 gallon drums last me

3 months, depending on my family's needs. I added a fuel injection module that converted my daughter's & son's cars to allow the usage of ethanol (2002 Chrysler Sebring & 2000 Honda Accord). The vehicle must be fuel injected in order for it to work. The conversion module cost $160 each, and allows the usage of both gas and ethanol without any further modifications. You just to make sure your vehicle fuel lines can handle the additional corrosive ethanol fuel. Most cars made after 1996 have no issue with ethanol. I had to replace all the fuel lines in my boat to allow the use of the fuel, plus an after market fuel injection kit for boats.

Jim Rojas

That's all fine and lovely but upscale it to 100+ million vehicles and you quickly see why gasoline rules, there isn't the available land to produce all that we need

And you have a Chrysler Sebring????

Industrial Hempseed - Burns clean, grows just about anywhere, drought resistant and requires very little in the way of chemical assistance.

It also provides chemical assistance for when you're bored!

Yup. Studies I've read have determined that ethanol is actually energy negative, when you calculate the fuel used to distill, the fuel for the harvesting machines, and the fuel of getting it to market.

Well. industrial hemp, not so much.

But I'm also in favor of legalization of the other type as well.