want to see Bass trying to get out of an argument that he cant win?

You just now figuring that stuff out?

I think we should use Teflon coated wire for everything...but thats just my opinion...

Jim Rojas

I prefer the wire be made from Teflon and the jacket out of metal

Heh, heh, heh... :^)

Poor Petem can't win an argument in another newsgroup so he came here looking for someone to help him out.

Just be sure to ground the plastic wire to the plastic box. :^)

(Sorry, Frank. I couldn't resist)

he is the king of lies and post editiing. a sure sign of a losing arguement.

Wow.. now i call this twisting of the fact..

you could have done a great republican.. twisting facts, lying out right in front of people, talking about issue you dont even know a thing about... Yup a grrreat! republican...

Maybe thats why you are so good at pointing out there lies... A pro in lying and such stuff cant be folled just like that!

nope, just having some fun before it all ends ;-)

he is a dumocRAT. not a great one. but a real life lie spewing democRAT. they lie all the time. just check out Obammy. he even got called out in the House of Reps for lying.

I could never understand the outdated party system. I never belonged to any party whatsoever, unless you can consider voting for the lesser of 2 evils a type of party.

Jim Rojas

Now just a minute, buster! Call me every dirty name in the book and I can take it but that's going too far! :^)

Many years ago I registered as a Republican so I could vote in the primaries for the candidate least likely to win. :^)

e de

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I don't have a problem with it, 2 parties with 2 opposing views, if you want confusion go to some European countries where they have 4 or

5 major parties and it's almost impossible to get anything done

message de

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e spewing democRAT.

got called out in

Problem is Jim, .............. now days the evils are as equally bad as they can get. There are only losers, both in office and in the populace. Anyone of integrity will not step up and subject themselves to the compromise necessary to hold office. If you want to hold the office, you have to pay back the favors that will get you there. How can the words honesty and integrity be expected from that point forward, in any administration? Somewhere there's a quote that goes something like ..... No nation is defeated by another until it is first destroyed from within. We're in that process now. We're just waiting for preparation and opportunity to meet.

Wait .... wait...... where's those whatchamacallits? You know the Constitoochin and the Receipt of rites ..... or, or whatever they're called?

Yes, the Constitoochin and the receipt of rites, get rewritten, or set aside to serve special interest groups. they are usually the ones that control all the money anyway. As long as the government allows lobbyist, and private campaign contributions, nothing will ever change.

Healthcare is a joke in this country. Those without it are much better off. Free clinics are in no short supply, and probably provide better care. Those with some sort of healthcare can expect to get dropped, denied coverage. or go bankrupt if major claim is made. That's just business as usual.

Cash For Clunkers is just another example of recent government waste. Sure it is a bandaid to help the economy along, But instead of mandating that SUV's, trucks, etc., that get under 15 MPG be banned from production, someone found more loppholes to exploit. This is why this country is on a one way track to total destruction. I would like to see a ban on gasoline only vehicles. Flexfuel and Hybrids make more sense. At least oil companies can easily go from refining oil to producing ethanol, no matter what special interest group says otherwise. I haven't bought a drop of gasoline in 3 years. There is an ethanol plant here in Tampa that produces biomass E100 ethanol. There is no need to add 15 percent gasoline to it, because biomass ethanol is not drinkable. I can buy 2 55 gallon drums for roughly $1.08 a gallon. This is the same product that is added to standard gasoline at the pumps...10 percent ethanol by volume.

Jim Rojas

Worked just fine for me earlier this year

Cash for Clunkers is a prime example of why government should not jack, they initially allotted a billion with the expectation that it would last for several months when it didn't last a week. They had to scramble for 2 billion more to close it out. If they can't even run that....

And as far as alcohol there isn't enough farmland to create enough product to power all our cars, as it is now increased alcohol production takes away food crop which drives food prices higher.

Ethanol can be extracted from cattle feed, without affecting that supply at all. It can also be made from biomass (yard waste which currently gets buried or burned away in most landfills. Most people don't even know that common table sugar comes from sugarbeets, not sugar cane. Sugar cane is a tropical plant. Sugarbeets can be grown just about anywhere. Even in those colder potato & corn growing states.

Ethanol is a clear, colorless alcohol fuel made from the sugars found in grains, such as corn, sorghum, and wheat, as well as potato skins, rice, and yard clippings. Ethanol is a renewable fuel because it is made from plants. There are several ways to make ethanol from biomass. The most commonly used processes today use yeast to ferment the sugars and starch in corn. Corn is the main ingredient for ethanol in the United States due to its abundance and low price. Most ethanol is produced in the corn-growing states in the Midwest. The leftover mash is then dried and turned into cattle feed. Only the liquid ethanol is extracted.

The starch in the corn is fermented into sugar, which is then fermented into alcohol. Other crops such as, barley, wheat, rice, sorghum, oranges, apples, grapefruits, pears, sunflowers, potatoes, sugar cane and sugar beets can also be used to produce ethanol. Switchgrass which blankets most of our country sides can also be used to make ethanol. Yard waste alone could easily provide 20 percent biomass for ethanol production.

Sugar cane and sugar beets are the most common ingredients for ethanol in other parts of the world. Since alcohol is created by fermenting sugar, sugar crops are the easiest ingredients to convert into alcohol. Brazil, the country with the world's largest ethanol production, makes most of its ethanol this way. Today, many cars in Brazil operate on ethanol made from sugar cane.

A new experimental process which breaks down cellulose in woody fibers, is called "cellulosic ethanol". With this process we can make ethanol from trees, grasses, and crop wastes. Trees and grasses need less energy than grains, which must be replanted every year.

Using ethanol means that we use a alot less gasoline (a nonrenewable fuel). Unlike gasoline, ethanol is nontoxic (safe to handle) and biodegradable, it quickly breaks down into harmless substances if spilled. When small amounts of ethanol are added to gasoline, usually less than 10 percent, there are many advantages. Ethanol reduces carbon monoxide and other toxic pollution from the tailpipes of vehicles, making the air cleaner. It keeps engines running smoothly without the need for lead or other chemical additives.

We need to stop listening to the special interest groups. There is plenty of renewable energy sources, if we bothered to look elsewhere than foreign oil fields. We spend billions on explorastion and extracting it from the ground, why not spend just as much growing it, and keeping the cash in American pockets? We complain that we outsource everything these days. Now its time to change that as well.

Iraq & Afghanistan don't buy their everyday need items on eBay...they buy weapons from anyone who will sell it to them. Yes, this includes the very same special interest groups in Washington that want to keep things just the way they are. The more foreign oil we buy, the more money they will have to buy these weapons.

Jim Rojas

Oh yeah...I almost forgot about Algae...

There is currently more living Algae out there than all the oil ever pumped out of the ground.

But special interest groups will have you believe otherwise. They will have you believe that growing our own algae will be too costly, thus drive fuel prices up even higher.

Most coastal states like California, Texas, Florida, etc., which border water supplies, can make endless amounts of Algae based ethanol. Imagine that...low cost fuel without hurting the environment, I'm sure there is a law against that as well...

Jim Rojas

Extracting isn't the problem, the problem is cost of extracting, yes you can get Ethanol from a lot of sources however many times you end up using more energy to extract Ethanol than the energy Ethanol contains which defeats the purpose. Also alcohol attracts water which is not a good thing up north during the winter when you fuel lines freeze. Cost of producing the product is why a lot of Ethanol refineries where I grew up went bust.

Extracting it from sugar cane is far easier than what we can use

The Midwest can't produce enough of it to satisfy our needs

And they didn't get there without massive government subsidies, also they are slowly moving away from all alcohol vehicles back to more gasoline-based engines mostly because they found a massive oil deposit off Brazil's shores recently

Easier said than done which is why we are a gasoline based society