Voip Problems?

No.

Named after you.

Pane in the Glass.

:)

Doug L

Thanks!

I usta skipper a ketch...for 2 years (long time ago)

Anyway, I'd never heard of the backwards trick..I'll try it tomorrow. Starting small and going bigger is not good on these windows...the less you mess the less chance of splintering...wood is really dry on these puppies.

I use both bell hanger or flex...problem with the canadian flexi's is the flutes disappear before the weld to the rod...DUMB...they won't unload the chips very well...but yah I use the flexi.

Also in new construction I use 5/8-3/4 18" auger on the end of a hole-hawg with

36" extension arm (Yah...too lazy to climb ladders all day!) we can drill out a big house in less than a hour (if the plumbers are not in our way!).

Crash Gord> That's EXACTLY how I do it...and I buy a new brad point and bell hanger for

each job. Could be the humidity is non-existant out here so the wood is really dry...even putting masking tape didn't help too much...only slightly splintered one of 20. Time consuming being so nervously careful...if I monge one up I end up losing money.

Crash, I'm going to give you something that I learned, while working on boats.

When drilling into fiberglass, if you start out with *any* kind of drill bit, the gel coat ( the overcoating that goes over the color layer) splinters and takes pieces of fiberglass with it from around the drilled hole. Primarily because it's brittle. This leaves the uncolored fiberglass, showing all around the edges and can sometimes splinter a big chunk of the color coat away, making for a pretty ugly sight. A way to avoid this is to push the point of the drill bit into the fiberglass with some amount of pressue and run the drill backwards. If you make the indentation deeper than the angled tip of the bit ..... then slowly run the drill forward, you'll find that the tearing around the edge of the hole is reduced considerably. This works especially well when drilling into vinyl at all times of the year. Sometimes, here in the cold climate, in new construction, the vinyl on doors and windows can crack from being cold. Running the bit backwards, heats up the vinyl and then it drills a lot better.

Another way of course, is to start with a smaller drill bit and work your way up. But, time consuming. But sometimes, depending upon the material, just a few bit changes will do it. And, of course, once you break through, any sharp bit will do. Masking tape helps .......... only sometimes.

I've never tried this with a brad point bit, because I've gotten used to using standard point. But, just thinking about it, it just might work better than a standard tip bit.

I expect we can all be prepared to see this show up in Bass's FAQ.

By the way, are you really using a "bell hanger" bit or a flex bit? I can see using bell hangers in new construction, where you can see where you're drilling, but I use all flex bits, regardless. No reason to carry two kinds of bits when one will do. The flex bits are so much more maneuverable.

If it follows the same path that occured quite a number of years ago (70's ....80's?) .......... it will go something like this.

The mfg, will do a survey in the alarm industry and only take advice from those who are not in the industry and who don't know a thing about contacting windows. They'll pick a contact mfg, who isn't known in the alarm industry and imbed the contacts in the window frames. They wont advertise to the public or to the alarm industry. The people who accidently discover them, and do choose to use the windows, will have them installed by contractors who wouldn't know a wire from a piece of cooked spaghetti, who will pinch, cut, compress, tear and completely obliterate any trace of any leads or make other unique special efforts to do everything to make access to the contacts all but impossible. In addition, hitting the window with a hammer, numerous times, right where the reed contact is, will be part of their window installation procedures. Then, after a year or two, the window mfg will take the product off the market, as impractical. Oh yeah, no one anticipated or figured out what to do with a window that had a bad contact in it, since they were epoxied in. Oh yes, I almost forgot. The mfg's price of the window will be twice as much as a window without contacts.

mess the less chance of splintering...wood is really dry on these puppies.

When you start dilling forward, don't press hard, just go back in lightly.

You might want to practice on something else first, just to get the feel for it.

Hope it works for you.

What kind of windows? Are these the Pella?

Around here, there's mostly Andersen and Marvin. Pella isn't very popular. I don't particularly like them. No room for contacts and they aren't designed for security. Sliding glass door on the outside track? Yeah ....... sure.

But, come to think of it, the newer tilt out Andersen windows, aren't very secure either.

What was the name of the company?

BobbyD

Frank Ols>

Yah, these particular ones are Pellas, with those cute interior opening panes (really a pain) where you put fancy smancy window blinds inside the window. This of course (with the inward opening frame) eliminates any place to put a magnet. The way houses are framed here it's next to impossible to drill up into the bottom of the opening window for a recessed magnet too...so i'm ending up using recessed contacts vertically in the inside (visible) frame then supermags on the hidden face of the opening window frame (works like a champ and really easy to service) but a pain to install.

This house also had the stupidest sliding door (yah exterior slide) with a roll up screen door - this was a 500 $$$ upgrade that the homeowner broke the first time he used it!).

Anderson & Marvins are popular here as well.

What pisses me off is that this house was bid for standard aluminum sliders - where I can knock off 20 in an hour at the most....now I'm playing window surgeon.

Crash Gord> Thanks!

mess the less chance of splintering...wood is really dry on these puppies.

When you start dilling forward, don't press hard, just go back in lightly.

You might want to practice on something else first, just to get the feel for it.

Hope it works for you.

What kind of windows? Are these the Pella?

Around here, there's mostly Andersen and Marvin. Pella isn't very popular. I don't particularly like them. No room for contacts and they aren't designed for security. Sliding glass door on the outside track? Yeah ....... sure.

But, come to think of it, the newer tilt out Andersen windows, aren't very secure either.

Inverted Windows Inc?

Heh, heh... :-))

Yep. It's always easier to drill "down" than "up". That way you can take advantage of the "negative lift" and achieve the correct "angle of attack of the wind". Don't forget to use your Mikita "C-152 tail-dragger" drill and follow through with lots of "carb heat" so you don't "stall" and "auger in".

Jim,

So to recap the window comments. The windows needs to come with a couple optional cavities (tampered?) that are designed for standard size alarm industry contacts; that can be pre-mounted and are mounted in such a way that they are then accessible for repair and replacement without damaging the window.

Piece of cake.

BobbyD

Jim wrote:

Are you saying that the windows should or should not have the contacts installed at the window factory?

If installed at the factory, there was still the problem of the switches being damaged by hammer blows during installation and/or lead damage or leads made in-accessable by un-"witted" window installers.

How about THIS? "Knock-outs" on "every" window that would hold a standard size ..... lets say 3/8 inch recessed contact. This way, the window mfg, makes every window the same, no special assembly. Alarm installer simply "knocks out" the plug and installs his own contact. But, then, would that mean that in pre-wire jobs, the wires would have to be run ** before ** the windows were installed? And on after market jobs, of what real value would a pre-existing hole in the window have as far as ease of installation? You still have to drill to the attic or basement. All I can see is that, if their contact hole were used, it would absolve the alarm installer from voiding the warranty.

If the window mfg could even be enticed to TALK about alarm contacts on their windows ....however, I'm sure they would not want to do the "knock out" thing. They'd only want to think of it in terms of making it a SPECIAL item, so that they could charge four times as much as it was really worth. Which .... we all know, would price it right out of the market, because the alarm guy would still have to make his money. The wires still have to be snaked and holes to the basement or attic still have to be drilled.

About the only condition that I can think of where a saving would take place, is if it were a wireless job and the contact leads were just extended to reach the transmitter.

I don't think it's ever gonna happen...... again.

Jim, Yes, the cavity or knockout idea seems the best. I agree with you in that it will not probably happen across the board. However, it would be nice to see one leading window manufacture try it. With all the technology going in to houses these days, this would appear to be a no-brainer.

BobbyD

Jim wrote:

With that comment, I can only think of one response.

If it's only a "no brainer" it'll likely be too complicated for the window manufacturers and or the builders to comprehend.

Here goes.

In the last year or so maybe a couple dozen of my clients with lots of phone lines switched to VOip because it looked good on paper and was supposed to save them big bucks. In every case I told them I needed a line with dial tone extended to our equipment in order for their alarm systems to continue working.

Not a single account was able to do that and all those accounts went kaput. None of their installers could give you a working phone line you were just supposed to pretend everything works.

Now all of those places have dumped the VOip crap and paid SBC tons of money to get phone lines installed again. During the time they had VOip the service guys were there all day at least two or three days a week trying to get anything to work and my understanding was that most of these systems either never worked right to begin with or only worked halfass for short periods of time and it cost everybody a fortune. All of these places had different companies with different vendors and they all had nothing but trouble. I don't know if this is the case nationwide or we just have a lot of dumb guys here who didn't know what they were doing. At some point you would think that somebody would figure out what is wrong and get it fixed.

The other day I dropped off my RR cable modem at TWC and the line was out the door with people bringing in junk equipment and everone in line had a modem or a couple of dvr's or both and TWC was just handing out new stuff to everyone and acting like there's no problem with their VOip service when in fact you can tell by the huge crowd there must be some sort of problem.

Meanwhile you can now install a wireless communicator for $5. a month and not have to worry about a pots line or VOip and not make several service trips out to look for trouble you can't fix anyway.

Now if we could just get alarm panels connected to TCP/IP service for $10. like you can with any personal computer then we will all be in good shape.