Unbelievable !

original ones ( which were mechanical contacts) lasted 25 years, the new one's should last longer.

comfortable with being associated with doing this .... imagining that the next installer 25 years from now will be thinking .... what kind of A-hole would do this?

The damage to the window weather strip is already done. The customer is fine with replacing the switches. You said yourself it would last another 25 years, and who cares if someone calls you an asshole in the future!?

If you surface mount, it won't look as good as concealed. I would just replace the switches. It's the easiest and more aesthetically pleasing than surface mount. Plus, the customer is always right... If there is a problem with the configuration (does not sound like it), you can always go back and re-do at their expense.

I might turn the 4 zone system into a hybrid wireless/wired in order to separate the loops better. Use a x-mitter with the external input, and group the windows for better isolation.

Old Napco 825 control panel which means the whole house is on four zones with about 20 openings. The owner had a problem with the original installer after many years because he couldn't stop the false alarms that were occuring on the system. So I'm checking out the system to do the estimate .....looking at the wiring in the basement .... doesn't look too bad. Mostly twisted pair as was common 25 years ago. Ball contacts on the doors. Not a good thing .... but kinda acceptable... but the windows !!!!!

The old installer had installed roller ball switches on the sides of the double hung windows. Drilled through the metal track and weather strip ..... cut out the weather strip to accomodate the flange on the roller ball and chisiled some of the wood away underneath the weatherstrip, so that the sash wouldn't hit the switch flange when moving the sashes up and down. He did this on both the tops and bottom sashes. I can't imagine how long it took to do this on every window.

The owner just wants me to replace the roller balls with the reasoning that the original ones ( which were mechanical contacts) lasted 25 years, the new one's should last longer.

Even though the owners "logic" is sound .... for some reason I just don't feel comfortable with being associated with doing this .... imagining that the next installer 25 years from now will be thinking .... what kind of A-hole would do this?

I still haven't decided on how to "fix" this. If I take the rollerballs out, I can just drill a hole through the edge of the moulding and run the wire through the edge of the window and install a surface mount contact with the splice residing in the old switch hole. And that'll only work on the bottom sash. On the top sash, I'd have to install a recessed magnet so the two sashes could pass one another with out knocking off the magnet. Another part of the problem is ..... I'll have two big gaping 3/4 inch holes on each window to fill. And ...... With what? And I'm afraid that with the absence of the roller ball, the weather is going to come in through where the switches used to be. To me ..... the windows were ruined by the alarm installer.

It's amazing that the old switched have survived the exposure to the weather all these years.

Any suggestions?????

Walk away

Doug

RHC: I second that !! Why would you want to even consider a problem plagued old system like that for a few bucks a month. It's no different than fixing up an ancient car and having the owner think it will run like a new one. And you're on the hook to fix it (service charges or not...)

No offence Jim, but after 30 some years in the business, why would you even consider it. Personally, I walk away from most ADT trouble prone systems; I wouldn't even look at this one if it were me....

=A0 with about 20 openings. The owner had a problem with the original insta= ller after many years because he couldn't stop the false alarms that were o= ccuring on the system. So I'm checking out the system to do the estimate ..= ...looking at the wiring in the basement .... doesn't look too bad. Mostly = twisted pair as was common 25 years ago. Ball contacts on the doors. Not a = good thing .... but kinda acceptable... but the windows !!!!!

double hung windows. Drilled through the metal track and weather strip ....= . cut out the weather strip to accomodate the flange on the roller ball and= chisiled some of the wood away underneath the weatherstrip, so that the sa= sh wouldn't hit the switch flange when moving the sashes up and down. He di= d this on both the tops and bottom sashes. I can't imagine how long it took= to do this on every =A0window.

at the original ones ( which were mechanical contacts) lasted 25 years, the= new one's should last longer.

feel comfortable with being associated with doing this .... imagining that= the next installer 25 years from now will be thinking .... what kind of A-= hole would do this?

ut, I can just drill a hole through the edge of the moulding and run the wi= re through the edge of the window and install a surface mount contact with = the splice residing in the old switch hole. And that'll only work on the bo= ttom sash. On the top sash, I'd have to install a recessed magnet so the tw= o sashes could pass one another with out knocking off the magnet. Another p= art of the problem is ..... I'll have two big gaping 3/4 inch holes on each= window to fill. And ...... With what? And I'm afraid that with the absence= of the roller ball, the weather is going to come in through where the swit= ches used to be. To me ..... the windows were ruined by the alarm installer= .

her all these years.

When faced with a difficult decision, LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!

Your subconsciencious brain is TRYING to TALK to you ...LISTEN!

You have already answered your question as you posted.

=A0 with about 20 openings. The owner had a problem with the original insta= ller after many years because he couldn't stop the false alarms that were o= ccuring on the system. So I'm checking out the system to do the estimate ..= ...looking at the wiring in the basement .... doesn't look too bad. Mostly = twisted pair as was common 25 years ago. Ball contacts on the doors. Not a = good thing .... but kinda acceptable... but the windows !!!!!

double hung windows. Drilled through the metal track and weather strip ....= . cut out the weather strip to accomodate the flange on the roller ball and= chisiled some of the wood away underneath the weatherstrip, so that the sa= sh wouldn't hit the switch flange when moving the sashes up and down. He di= d this on both the tops and bottom sashes. I can't imagine how long it took= to do this on every =A0window.

at the original ones ( which were mechanical contacts) lasted 25 years, the= new one's should last longer.

feel comfortable with being associated with doing this .... imagining that= the next installer 25 years from now will be thinking .... what kind of A-= hole would do this?

ut, I can just drill a hole through the edge of the moulding and run the wi= re through the edge of the window and install a surface mount contact with = the splice residing in the old switch hole. And that'll only work on the bo= ttom sash. On the top sash, I'd have to install a recessed magnet so the tw= o sashes could pass one another with out knocking off the magnet. Another p= art of the problem is ..... I'll have two big gaping 3/4 inch holes on each= window to fill. And ...... With what? And I'm afraid that with the absence= of the roller ball, the weather is going to come in through where the swit= ches used to be. To me ..... the windows were ruined by the alarm installer= .

her all these years.

Second thoughts, since you want to HELP this guy...

Sell him parts, at cost, guide his efforts, to make it a DIY project, that way his alarm system works, he should accept responsibility for the repairs, and you're not liable for repairs, yet you could both be happy with that scenario.

with about 20 openings. The owner had a problem with the original install= er after many years because he couldn't stop the false alarms that were= occuring on the system. So I'm checking out the system to do the estim= ate .....looking at the wiring in the basement .... doesn't look too ba= d. Mostly twisted pair as was common 25 years ago. Ball contacts on the doo= rs. Not a good thing .... but kinda acceptable... but the windows !!!!! = =20

double hung windows. Drilled through the metal track and weather strip ....= . cut out the weather strip to accomodate the flange on the roller ball and= chisiled some of the wood away underneath the weatherstrip, so that the sa= sh wouldn't hit the switch flange when moving the sashes up and down. H= e did this on both the tops and bottom sashes. I can't imagine how long= it took to do this on every window.

at the original ones ( which were mechanical contacts) lasted 25 years, the= new one's should last longer.=20

just don't feel comfortable with being associated with doing this .... = imagining that the next installer 25 years from now will be thinking .... w= hat kind of A-hole would do this?

rollerballs out, I can just drill a hole through the edge of the moulding = and run the wire through the edge of the window and install a surface mount= contact with the splice residing in the old switch hole. And that'll o= nly work on the bottom sash. On the top sash, I'd have to install a rec= essed magnet so the two sashes could pass one another with out knocking off= the magnet. Another part of the problem is ..... I'll have two big gap= ing 3/4 inch holes on each window to fill. And ...... With what? And I'= m afraid that with the absence of the roller ball, the weather is going to = come in through where the switches used to be. To me ..... the windows were= ruined by the alarm installer.=20

weather all these years.=20

Whew! What an array of responses!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I've already said that I'd give him and estimate. And I've pointed ou= t that the windows have been "damaged". And I've indicated that I would not= like to put the rollerball switches back in. So .......... I think that I'= ll have him sign a waiver that the windows were damaged by the previous ala= rm company and that in an effort to make the system better, I'll surface mo= unt the contacts but that I'm not responsible for any future consequenses t= hat may occur. Yeah, the surface mounts don't look as good, but it's an old= house and with blinds or curtains on all the windows the contacts aren't v= isible. All the windows are painted brown so I'll use brown contacts and th= ey'll blend in pretty good. With a new control panel and the basement acces= sable, I'll be able to break the four zones up into zones by the room.=20

And yeah, I probably should walk away but I've priced the job pretty good, = so I can make sure the quality of the job is brought up to my standards. So= ...... if he goes for the price ...... the whole install will be about 80%= redone. If he doesn't ..... then it's not worth it. I just have to keep it= in the realm of .... all ... or nothing at all.=20

I'll let you know what happens.

Well, as I say, I've priced it high .... it'll be almost a complete redo ..= .. And with a signed waiver ..... so I'll see what happens.

And actually, now it's 43 years.

I guess I've been married too long.

Every time I try to listen to myself ..... I hear my wifes voice. :-)