Strange Fire Alarm Activity

Maybe a dumb question but gotta start somewhere. What resistors did you use? Where they left from the other panel? If so, maybe they took a hit at some point. Maybe that is why someone took a bat to it. Have you talked to tech support on this issue as you did for the burg system? Have you tried switching zones to see if there is a problem on that particular zone of the panel?

followup for the rersistor question.. have someone watch a meter reading the resistance of the loop at the panel and someone else shoot the eol with a cooling agent check the resistance then do the same thing with each pull station switch, if your resistance changes over 200 ohms at any time, replace the eol and make new connections on the ckt..

repeat the above till the change is no more than 50 ohms..

RTS

blowing on it count?;)

well, I have used new EOL risistors. I have done this. I have changed zone 1 and zone 4 with each other. When I do that, Zone 1 goes into alarm, and zone 4 does not.

So tech support doesnt think its the panel.... They dont know what the problem ..... I have even put zone 4 on its own fire alarm panel, Still goes off.. so I have done some hard core testing.. still dont know what the case it...

Its costing some coins in labor..... so I kinda need to do someting about it..... I am thinking it could be some energy or something in that area of the building... Clocks dont seem to keep correct time in the gym if that helps anyone.... but if you put a clock in another room, it works fine.

Its all just to strange for me... I have never ran into this problem before....

Matthew

I think I forgot to mention.. This only happens 1 time between Midnight and

Matthew

Have you made a visit to the site at that time? Is the wiring in conduit or is it free run. Something is happening at that time to effect the system and/or the resistance on the wire. Pumps turning on (surge), boiler pipes heating up, generator tests, etc. Something may become very obvious to you if you are there during these times. Set up a temporary wire to those devices at lets say 11.30 at night so that it doesn't effect JQ public. Let it go through those devices between the times you have narrowed it down to. That way the exiting wire is eliminated from the system. It seems you have eliminated the other obvious possibilities. Are there different makes and models of equipment on the same zone? It seems that you are right on the edge of the resistance tolerance and the slightest difference will put it over the top.

If you suspect an impedence problem then try using a couple of torx rings on the loop wire right at the screw terminals of that zone. those rings have the ability to block some amount of impedence and ac problems..

RTS

the only two devices are pull stations. I have replaced them with new ones, I have ran a new 16/2 fire wire to the devices that ran from the FACP on the floors through the hallways to the gym... Still does it... Im going to try going there when it happens at night time to see what happens..

This building was built in 1890 and its very old... The boiler they dont use anymore, the system has new forced air heaters installed.. No A/C units.....

I will keep everyone on here posted on what happens... I hope I get this taken care of cause its just making me go crazy...... (They say the building is haunted but I dont buy that crap)

Matthew

Are you sure the alarm at your premises is actually going off, and not someone else's alarm panel hitting on your's?

I've had this happen...someone else makes a programming mistake and sends signals to my account that are unexpected/misinterpreted.

| >> Matthew | >>

| > Have you made a visit to the site at that time? Is the wiring in conduit | > or | > is it free run. Something is happening at that time to effect the system | > and/or the resistance on the wire. Pumps turning on (surge), boiler pipes | > heating up, generator tests, etc. Something may become very obvious to you | > if you are there during these times. Set up a temporary wire to those | > devices at lets say 11.30 at night so that it doesn't effect JQ public. | > Let | > it go through those devices between the times you have narrowed it down | > to. | > That way the exiting wire is eliminated from the system. It seems you have | > eliminated the other obvious possibilities. Are there different makes and | > models of equipment on the same zone? It seems that you are right on the | > edge of the resistance tolerance and the slightest difference will put it | > over the top. | >

| >

| |

Since it is an old school, does it have a clock system? Often the old clocks syncronize at some ungodly hour. Perhaps the sync pulses are setting it off? Perhaps the fire alarm wire is run in the same conduit, not unusual for the old systems where everything was 120 VAC.

So, let me understand,

You laid wire on the floor, ran it into the gym, connected an EOLR and the zone didn't trip.

You connect the same wire to pulls and the zone trips. Only at night (between midnight and 1 am). Hmmm....

Did you try connecting just 1 of the pulls to isolate which pull might be the prob?

I will assume you have been very thorough and are absolutley sure there are no other devices connected on this loop, no T-tapping, ect...

A convential pull is nothing more than a N.O. switch, which is no more than a piece of wire, so it shouldn't be affected by high freq energy sources....

Try hooking up the pulls outside the wall ( on the floor?) and see what happens.

Zone each pull seperatly, temporarily, to see which one trips?

If one of the pulls is in the basement or on a cold exterior wall, make sure there is no moisture condensation dripping into the pull to cause shorts.

Good luck

Jewellfish

Just Some Guy wrote:

Off topic:

I used to know a Matt Stanley in Olathe, KS. Not too far from southern Missouri. One and the same?

Chad Speer Kansas City, MO

hehe... Never Lived in KS,..... Im from Central IL

Matthew

You never answered this question. Is the account number issued for this system a recycled account? Or was it previously unused account number for your CS.

you haven't ruled out. Have your CS verify the Caller ID of the signal with the panel's phone line.

You never answered this question. Is the account number issued for this system a recycled account? Or was it previously unused account number for your CS.

possibility you haven't ruled out. Have your CS verify the Caller ID of the signal with the panel's phone line.

Matthew

Can't say I've seen that name in the last 20 years. Worth a shot. :-)

Most clock systems sync the minute hand on the 58th or 59th minute and the hour hand at 6am and 6pm.

I remember a condensation problem which drove me nuts several years ago. Each night in the fall the FA system would false alarm. Finally traced it back to condensation forming inside a conduit buried in an outside wall. It was running down inside the conduit and shorting out the pull station micro switch. This was an intermittant problem however, and was not occuring each and every night at a precise time as you mentioned.

Rick P.

It's obvious to me that there must be devices on the system (heats in the attic?) that are hooked up with the manual stations. The are several troubleshooting steps you're going to need to perform. Run a wire between the two pull stations (on the gym floor) and bypass the existing interconnection between the pulls (not between the pulls and the panel). I'll bet your falses disappear. Now all that's left is to determine where the interconnection wire is going and what device is connected to it that's causing the false alarm. Tracing the wire should be fairely easy if you have a tone generator, however it may be cheaper at this point to simply run a new wire between the pulls and abandon the existing one.

There are only 2 pull stations on this zone... I have already ran a temp wire along the floor and connected it to the two pull stations that are installed. Still False Alarm... This is what I did.... I was there Friday night and it falsed alarm again. So Saturday I moved the pull stations from inside to the gym. I placed one in the lobby by the main entrance doors, and the other one is by the rear west exit of the gymn in the stair well for the locker/shower room and stage. Now the pull stations are located by exit doors and I have not had a false alarm yet. Keep in minde its only been one nite but saturday it was a clear.

This is not a central station issue.. I think I mentioned that the HORNS are sounding.... it reported to the fire department and they responded... They mention about the horns sounding so That takes care of that questions....

I hope this corrects the problem.....

Matthew