Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?

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I would like to install about 4 cameras around my house, not necessarily for
security but to see who's at the front door, monitor the kid's playground, etc.

My plan is to install these cameras, run them to the equipment room under the
stairs in my basement, then get channel modulators to insert them into my cable
system (or maybe run them into a quad generator to create one channel).

Without knowing yet what kind of cameras I will get, what wiring should I run?
Just a coax and 2 conductor power?  For cameras with other features, such as
motion trigger, or audio, do I need more conductors?

Also I am at a loss to figure out how to easily fish these wires through my
outside walls to the basement.  Obviously I want them to be hidden and
inaccessible to someone with wire cutters, but I don't see how I can run them
down inside the siding with the boards and insulation on the other side.  How do
you guys do it?


Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
BIOSMonkey wrote:
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RG-59U, Some Cat 5, and a two or four conductor 18AWG will just about
cover everything that's out there.


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That part I like...  We use a chain saw.  We rip a wire way channel down
the inside wall (make sure you wear a good quality dust mask and
protective clothing to avoid injury from flying splinters, odd bits of
nail and insulation).  It's also a good idea to use a well insulated
chainsaw in case you hit a live 110 or 220 VAC wire.  Lay your wire in
the channel you've just created and staple it all down.  Stuff some
insulation on top, and nail on a thin strip of drywall.  Don't forget to
tell you wife that you're leaving it like this so that you can open the
wireway anytime you need to service it.

Seriously, you'll need to get yourself some basic tools as well as some
more specialized ones like a 6 foot flex-bit, and a good quality fish
tape.  Judging from your comments you have good access to the basement
(that it's largely unfinished).  Drilling or fishing down an outside
wall is never easy, but is possible.  You have to be careful about
displacing insulation or damaging the vapour barrier.  A fire-stop can
make what looks like an "easy run" a tad more difficult too.
Maintaining separation from higher voltage AC wiring also has to be
considered.  Sometimes it's easier to go "up" into the attic and then
down an inside wall to the basement.  Without actually seeing what you
want to do or the way your home is constructed, it would be difficult to
comment on which technique is going to work best.  If you've never done
this before, it would probably be a lot easier (and wiser) to have a
"Pro" run the wire for you.  He'll have all the gear necessary.  You'll
have to pay out some bucks but you'll have fewer headaches.

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?

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Frank, you forgot to take off your **Bass** fishing hat!
Switch hats and don't put on the counter guy hat either!

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Atta Boy!




Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Bob Worthy wrote:


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Haven't worn that for years.  I'm pretty sure there are still hooks in
it too.


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But I *love* my paper hat!!

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?

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Anything for kicks and giggles, eh!



Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 20:04:12 GMT, Frank Olson
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Thanks everyone.

I do have the tools, and I do have a couple of 6 foot flexbits.  I have run many
wires down walls, for satellite, network, phone, etc.  But I am just a 'handy'
DIYer, not a pro.

The fact that I have experienced fishing down insulated walls is what bothers
me, and  especially damaging vapor barrier as you said.  Generally what I have
done in the past is to drill straight thru a wall to the other side, and cut out
a vertical hole just large enough to get a good bend with the flex bit to
continue down.  That's a pain since I have to patch the drywall later and paint
it again, which won't be easy since I have a patterned design.  But at least
it's paint and not some intricate wallpaper I guess.

I am a little puzzled with the chain saw idea!  You mean you use a chain saw
inside the home to cut the channel?  How do you control depth???

I had considered cutting a shallow wireway into drywall for other projects
(remote controlled blinds) and just mud over it.  I never got to do it, but it
would seem like a rotozip with the router attachment and a wide, straight router
bit would give good control and constant channel depth.  You could also run it
down the side of a metal guide (the kind that clamps to sheet goods for the circ
saw) to make a nice straight line.   Or better yet run it along a window or door
using the trim as a guide to keep the channel away from potential nails.

On the other hand, I'd be a little afraid cutting a channel like this and
mudding it might just create a joint in the wall that will crack during temp
changes!  I guess taping would help...

Anyway, I was just hunting for some tips in case there was something I was
missing.

Thanks again.




Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
BIOSMonkey wrote:

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What "depth control"??  Chainsaw was a joke.  Get with the program!  ;-)

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Frank said:

We use a chain saw.....

Let's hear more about that, Frank.......
I bet it gets the customer's attention.......

Is it monitored or just a DIY chain saw?

Norm Mugford


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Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Norm Mugford wrote:
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No..  It's a "Huskie".  The gas fumes tend to make you giggle after a
while though...  I use a Toronto Maple Leafs goalie mask while I'm sawin'.

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?


Frank Olson wrote:
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The electric saws are much better for this because they are not as loud
and you don't have to go through so much gas.  Also, You can plug in
near where you are cutting so if you do hit the 110 it sort of acts like
an automatic cut-off.

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?

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Now, That's a picture......




Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Don't laugh I knew a guy that used to post wire homes with a circular saw
with several blades on the shaft, and slot the entire exterior wall of the
house around the perimeter!


| BIOSMonkey wrote:
| > I would like to install about 4 cameras around my house, not necessarily
for
| > security but to see who's at the front door, monitor the kid's
playground, etc.
| >
| > My plan is to install these cameras, run them to the equipment room
under the
| > stairs in my basement, then get channel modulators to insert them into
my cable
| > system (or maybe run them into a quad generator to create one channel).
| >
| > Without knowing yet what kind of cameras I will get, what wiring should
I run?
| > Just a coax and 2 conductor power?  For cameras with other features,
such as
| > motion trigger, or audio, do I need more conductors?
|
| RG-59U, Some Cat 5, and a two or four conductor 18AWG will just about
| cover everything that's out there.
|
|
| >
| > Also I am at a loss to figure out how to easily fish these wires through
my
| > outside walls to the basement.  Obviously I want them to be hidden and
| > inaccessible to someone with wire cutters, but I don't see how I can run
them
| > down inside the siding with the boards and insulation on the other side.
How do
| > you guys do it?
|
| That part I like...  We use a chain saw.  We rip a wire way channel down
| the inside wall (make sure you wear a good quality dust mask and
| protective clothing to avoid injury from flying splinters, odd bits of
| nail and insulation).  It's also a good idea to use a well insulated
| chainsaw in case you hit a live 110 or 220 VAC wire.  Lay your wire in
| the channel you've just created and staple it all down.  Stuff some
| insulation on top, and nail on a thin strip of drywall.  Don't forget to
| tell you wife that you're leaving it like this so that you can open the
| wireway anytime you need to service it.
|
| Seriously, you'll need to get yourself some basic tools as well as some
| more specialized ones like a 6 foot flex-bit, and a good quality fish
| tape.  Judging from your comments you have good access to the basement
| (that it's largely unfinished).  Drilling or fishing down an outside
| wall is never easy, but is possible.  You have to be careful about
| displacing insulation or damaging the vapour barrier.  A fire-stop can
| make what looks like an "easy run" a tad more difficult too.
| Maintaining separation from higher voltage AC wiring also has to be
| considered.  Sometimes it's easier to go "up" into the attic and then
| down an inside wall to the basement.  Without actually seeing what you
| want to do or the way your home is constructed, it would be difficult to
| comment on which technique is going to work best.  If you've never done
| this before, it would probably be a lot easier (and wiser) to have a
| "Pro" run the wire for you.  He'll have all the gear necessary.  You'll
| have to pay out some bucks but you'll have fewer headaches.



Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Huh???????????????????

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Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Yah. He was an idiot...I guess he thought patching stucco was easier than
fishing wires...what a mess he made.


| Huh???????????????????
|
| > Don't laugh I knew a guy that used to post wire homes with a circular
saw
| > with several blades on the shaft, and slot the entire exterior wall of
the
| > house around the perimeter!
| >
| >
| > message
| > | BIOSMonkey wrote:
| > | > I would like to install about 4 cameras around my house, not
| > necessarily
| > for
| > | > security but to see who's at the front door, monitor the kid's
| > playground, etc.
| > | >
| > | > My plan is to install these cameras, run them to the equipment room
| > under the
| > | > stairs in my basement, then get channel modulators to insert them
into
| > my cable
| > | > system (or maybe run them into a quad generator to create one
| > channel).
| > | >
| > | > Without knowing yet what kind of cameras I will get, what wiring
| > should
| > I run?
| > | > Just a coax and 2 conductor power?  For cameras with other features,
| > such as
| > | > motion trigger, or audio, do I need more conductors?
| > |
| > | RG-59U, Some Cat 5, and a two or four conductor 18AWG will just about
| > | cover everything that's out there.
| > |
| > |
| > | >
| > | > Also I am at a loss to figure out how to easily fish these wires
| > through
| > my
| > | > outside walls to the basement.  Obviously I want them to be hidden
and
| > | > inaccessible to someone with wire cutters, but I don't see how I can
| > run
| > them
| > | > down inside the siding with the boards and insulation on the other
| > side.
| > How do
| > | > you guys do it?
| > |
| > | That part I like...  We use a chain saw.  We rip a wire way channel
down
| > | the inside wall (make sure you wear a good quality dust mask and
| > | protective clothing to avoid injury from flying splinters, odd bits of
| > | nail and insulation).  It's also a good idea to use a well insulated
| > | chainsaw in case you hit a live 110 or 220 VAC wire.  Lay your wire in
| > | the channel you've just created and staple it all down.  Stuff some
| > | insulation on top, and nail on a thin strip of drywall.  Don't forget
to
| > | tell you wife that you're leaving it like this so that you can open
the
| > | wireway anytime you need to service it.
| > |
| > | Seriously, you'll need to get yourself some basic tools as well as
some
| > | more specialized ones like a 6 foot flex-bit, and a good quality fish
| > | tape.  Judging from your comments you have good access to the basement
| > | (that it's largely unfinished).  Drilling or fishing down an outside
| > | wall is never easy, but is possible.  You have to be careful about
| > | displacing insulation or damaging the vapour barrier.  A fire-stop can
| > | make what looks like an "easy run" a tad more difficult too.
| > | Maintaining separation from higher voltage AC wiring also has to be
| > | considered.  Sometimes it's easier to go "up" into the attic and then
| > | down an inside wall to the basement.  Without actually seeing what you
| > | want to do or the way your home is constructed, it would be difficult
to
| > | comment on which technique is going to work best.  If you've never
done
| > | this before, it would probably be a lot easier (and wiser) to have a
| > | "Pro" run the wire for you.  He'll have all the gear necessary.
You'll
| > | have to pay out some bucks but you'll have fewer headaches.
| >
| >
|
|
|



Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
I would get the cameras *first* so you know what wiring they will require.
If running coax, use RG-6 which is best.

So far as learning to run wires in an already built house, you need a
knowledge of construction (what is inside the walls), a combination stud
finder/metal detector/AC wire finder will help to keep you from damaging
things inside the wall, and then long drill bits ( 7 ft.) with a hole
drilled in the end to fish wires, and a fish tape will help. Then experience
doing these things.

Also experience running and bending electrical conduit helps quite a bit.

In your situation, it might be about the same cost (as buying all the tools)
to have an electrician run the wires for you.

Many cameras are sold without the mounting hardware. Get the cameras and
mounting hardware first. A camera I have uses shielded cable with RCA jacks
and 2 wire power. Another camera I have uses coax and 2 wire power. Some
cameras with zoom or whatever might need more wires to control the camera.
You can also get adapters: RCA to coax, etc.



"BIOSMonkey" wrote in message
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Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?

Bill wrote:
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Hi Bill,

With regard to the above...... I don't do much CCTV work anymore but
when I did, we always used RG59. Wire mfgs, and camera mfgs always said
that was the proper wire. And also that it was important to use copper
braid not aluminum. I think it also had something to do with the core
conductor too. Something to do with a copper clad steel conductor in
the RG6 versus a copper conductor in the RG59. Nowdays, I see people
recommending RG6 for CCTV installs, yet from what I read and hear, RG6
should only be used on long runs for CCTV, (like hundreds and hundreds
of feet ) and have copper braid.  I remember something about the
aluminum foil being ok for regular RF TV signal on the RG6 but not for
video signal. Do you use RG6 regularly and have you actually compared
the picture quality?  Is it the same kind of RG6 that you use for RF
TV? Did you just choose to use it and didn't see any difference or did
someone recommend and/or say that it was alright to use?


Anyone else have any info or input on this?


Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Jim wrote:
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We always use RG-59U.  I think you'll find most professionals do.

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Jim wrote:

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http://www.pelco.com/support/videosecbasics/selectingcable.aspx

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Frank Olson wrote:

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The way I read that, it basically says that the longer the run, the
larger diameter should be the center conductor.

It ->doesn't<- say that RG6 is worse than RG59 for short runs.

I think the shielding of RG6 is way better then RG59, and if the
resistance is less then it's a no brainer that RG6 is technically
always better than RG59.

For anyone doing the labor themselves, I think it would be a waste to
NOT use RG6.  For contractors that do this all the time, maybe the
extra expense of RG6 is why they think that RG59 is better (yea -
better for them, but not better for the customer).

Re: Running wire for security cameras, and tips on fishing wire?
Alarm Guy wrote:
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The important thing is that all of the RG-59U I've seen uses stranded
core wire (which is better suited to CCTV applications due to it's
flexibility).  The RG-6 I've seen available from most of the
whole-salers uses solid core wire.  I suppose you could use a signal
converter and CAT-5 or CAT-6 but that's going to add an additional
expense to your installation.  It will result in a cleaner immage on the
longer runs and less fuss though.  It all boils down to persnoal choice
I guess.

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