Re: Quality Ademco engineering

Here's a couple of interesting Ademco bugs you may not know about:

The 6160 is the replacement for the 6139 Alpha keypad, which is no longer available. Only one tiny little problem: the 6160 doesn't work on older Ademco panels. The workaround: replace the control panel as well as the keypad. Or find a 6139 on your junkpile. Oops.

If you're using the 7845GSM radio, you may not have heard about the recall. Early versions of the radio have a defective microprocessor. The radios stop working after a while. A link to the recall notice is on the Alarmnet website. Oops again.

Reply to
Nomen Nescio
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Which older panels? It works with all the panels the 6139 keypads worked with

Actually they had 2 recalls

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Bosch is better. They had three recalls of the G Series panels.

Reply to
Roland Moore

You would think so, but you'd be wrong. The 6160 does not work on the XMPT2. The 6139 does. I'm guessing the XMP has the same problem, but I haven't verified that.

The 6160 will display correctly, but the panel won't respond to keypad data from a 6160.

Oops.

Reply to
Nomen Nescio

see my earlier post regarding CO detectors on a zone expander (my B**** list for Ademco/Vinegarpit is two pages long and I give to everyone from the company I meet)

Reply to
Eyeball Kid

As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 anyway. And I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of the later stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life.

Now if it was say the original Vista-10 I'd agree

Reply to
Mark Leuck

That is not a bug.. It's a well documented incompatibility. In fact, on the ADI site (Webtech, and ordering site, it states right next to the part number * not for CO use*) So if you missed that - you're the bug. 2 wire smokes can not be used on expanders either - is that a bug too?

Your what list? Bassshit list? Post the vinegar here and let the experts analyze your 'list'. I'll bet most can be crossed off because you didn't RTFM.

Reply to
Milhouse Van Houten

the 6160 does not work on the older vista 50's either. :(

James B

Reply to
J Barnes

The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50. There are lots of them in the field. From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work with the Vista 50 either. They work fine with a 6139.

The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels. They also work with the Vista 40. I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160.

I have two complaints here. First, backward compatibility is a pretty obvious thing to do. But my main bitch is, none of these problems are mentioned in the instructions. You don't find out about them until it's time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad keypad. Oh no they idn't, the keypad is fine.

Make that three complaints. The fine engineering staff at Ademco still hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel type to a newer panel type. So when you have to replace that bad keypad with a 6160, you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have to program the new panel from scratch. None of the program information from that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, even though the programs are very similar.

How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a bad keypad.

Reply to
Nomen Nescio

Yes but how far back do you go? Neither of those keypads will work on say a

4110XM/DL or a 4140XMP. Your scenario isn't going to happen very often and while it isn't a good thing when it does it's likely better to replace the panel anyway

True but it's not that hard to save and print the old info out and download it into the new panel

That I can't argue with

Reply to
Mark Leuck

that's one of the many things i like abt dmp...all backwards compatable.

| > >As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 anyway. | And | > >I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of the later | > >stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life. | >

| > The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50. There are lots of them | > in the field. From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work with the | > Vista 50 either. They work fine with a 6139. | >

| > The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels. They also work with | > the Vista 40. I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160. | >

| > I have two complaints here. First, backward compatibility is a pretty | > obvious thing to do. But my main bitch is, none of these problems are | > mentioned in the instructions. You don't find out about them until it's | > time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad keypad. | Oh | > no they idn't, the keypad is fine. | | Yes but how far back do you go? Neither of those keypads will work on say a | 4110XM/DL or a 4140XMP. Your scenario isn't going to happen very often and | while it isn't a good thing when it does it's likely better to replace the | panel anyway | | >

| > Make that three complaints. The fine engineering staff at Ademco still | > hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel type to a | > newer panel type. So when you have to replace that bad keypad with a | 6160, | > you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have to | > program the new panel from scratch. None of the program information from | > that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, even | > though the programs are very similar. | | True but it's not that hard to save and print the old info out and download | it into the new panel | | | > How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a bad | > keypad. | | That I can't argue with | |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

It's the same with most manufacturers. One reason is the newer panels may have a totally different EEPROM map. It's far easier to ensure that all fields are correct if they require you to write the replacement panel's program from scratch.

I've been involved in software development for alarm control panels. With each model there's a different EEPROM map. In laymen's terms, the programmer develops a schema to fit data items where they belong in the EEMPROM map, limit the values that can be entered for each data point, compare each value with related values, etc.

It's a fairly complicated task error checking all data entered for one specific model. To make the data portable to newer version releases is slightly more complex but doable. Once you decide to go beyond that to making an account file portable to entirely different models things get much more complicated. This is especially so if the newer model has data points and options which didn't exist on the previous model or (far worse) if it has more stringent limits on certain data. It can be done but the software becomes significantly more expensive to develop. Given the competitive nature of the marketplace, most manufacturers are not inclined to increase their costs when they can simply lay the extra burden on installers.

Honeywell's (nee: Ademco's) Myweb Tech website has documentation listing compatibility of each keypad, panel and accessory.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Your just a elitist bragging about your gear (according to some here).

Reply to
Roland

Yes...I own my dysfunction and I love a product I can program without doing advanced math or counting little blinking leds :-)

| >

| >

| > | > >As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 | > anyway. | > | And | > | > >I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of the | > later | > | > >stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life. | > | >

| > | > The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50. There are lots of | > them | > | > in the field. From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work with | > the | > | > Vista 50 either. They work fine with a 6139. | > | >

| > | > The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels. They also work | > with | > | > the Vista 40. I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160. | > | >

| > | > I have two complaints here. First, backward compatibility is a pretty | > | > obvious thing to do. But my main bitch is, none of these problems are | > | > mentioned in the instructions. You don't find out about them until | > it's | > | > time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad | > keypad. | > | Oh | > | > no they idn't, the keypad is fine. | > | | > | Yes but how far back do you go? Neither of those keypads will work on | > say | > a | > | 4110XM/DL or a 4140XMP. Your scenario isn't going to happen very often | > and | > | while it isn't a good thing when it does it's likely better to replace | > the | > | panel anyway | > | | > | >

| > | > Make that three complaints. The fine engineering staff at Ademco | > still | > | > hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel type to | > a | > | > newer panel type. So when you have to replace that bad keypad with a | > | 6160, | > | > you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have to | > | > program the new panel from scratch. None of the program information | > from | > | > that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, | > even | > | > though the programs are very similar. | > | | > | True but it's not that hard to save and print the old info out and | > download | > | it into the new panel | > | | > | | > | > How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a bad | > | > keypad. | > | | > | That I can't argue with | > | | > | | >

| >

| |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

So the 7760 graphics keypad works with the 1812? Cool!

Reply to
Mark Leuck

It should...but you'd have to enable the 70 panic in keypad programming for police panic though.

You still have 1812s?...man they is olde. I still have 1512's out there working fine.

Who can afford 7760 keypads anyway?...but the are slick lookin'

| >

| >

| > | > >As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 | anyway. | > | And | > | > >I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of the | > later | > | > >stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life. | > | >

| > | > The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50. There are lots of | > them | > | > in the field. From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work with | the | > | > Vista 50 either. They work fine with a 6139. | > | >

| > | > The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels. They also work | with | > | > the Vista 40. I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160. | > | >

| > | > I have two complaints here. First, backward compatibility is a pretty | > | > obvious thing to do. But my main bitch is, none of these problems are | > | > mentioned in the instructions. You don't find out about them until | it's | > | > time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad | keypad. | > | Oh | > | > no they idn't, the keypad is fine. | > | | > | Yes but how far back do you go? Neither of those keypads will work on | say | > a | > | 4110XM/DL or a 4140XMP. Your scenario isn't going to happen very often | and | > | while it isn't a good thing when it does it's likely better to replace | the | > | panel anyway | > | | > | >

| > | > Make that three complaints. The fine engineering staff at Ademco | still | > | > hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel type to | a | > | > newer panel type. So when you have to replace that bad keypad with a | > | 6160, | > | > you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have to | > | > program the new panel from scratch. None of the program information | > from | > | > that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, | even | > | > though the programs are very similar. | > | | > | True but it's not that hard to save and print the old info out and | > download | > | it into the new panel | > | | > | | > | > How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a bad | > | > keypad. | > | | > | That I can't argue with | > | | > | | >

| >

| |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

It was a joke, I picked the latest keypad with the oldest DMP panel I knew of to see if you'd say something like "Er okay thats too old"

Reply to
Mark Leuck

And he said it would work.

Reply to
Milhouse Van Houten

ah it was a quiz !

| > You still have 1812s?...man they is olde. I still have 1512's out there | > working fine. | >

| > Who can afford 7760 keypads anyway?...but the are slick lookin' | >

| >

| >

| > | >

| > | >

| > | > | > >As far as I know the XMP wouldn't work with either 6139 or 6160 | > | anyway. | > | > | And | > | > | > >I don't consider that much of an oops when the vast majority of | the | > | > later | > | > | > >stuff will, I've run into maybe 1 XMPT2's in my life. | > | > | >

| > | > | > The 4140XMPT2 was the predecessor of the Vista 50. There are lots | > of | > | > them | > | > | > in the field. From what J. Barnes says, the 6160 doesn't work | with | > | the | > | > | > Vista 50 either. They work fine with a 6139. | > | > | >

| > | > | > The 6139 keypads work fine with the 4140XMP panels. They also | work | > | with | > | > | > the Vista 40. I'm guessing neither one works with the 6160. | > | > | >

| > | > | > I have two complaints here. First, backward compatibility is a | > pretty | > | > | > obvious thing to do. But my main bitch is, none of these problems | > are | > | > | > mentioned in the instructions. You don't find out about them | until | > | it's | > | > | > time to replace a keypad, and then, oh shit, they gave me a bad | > | keypad. | > | > | Oh | > | > | > no they idn't, the keypad is fine. | > | > | | > | > | Yes but how far back do you go? Neither of those keypads will work | on | > | say | > | > a | > | > | 4110XM/DL or a 4140XMP. Your scenario isn't going to happen very | often | > | and | > | > | while it isn't a good thing when it does it's likely better to | replace | > | the | > | > | panel anyway | > | > | | > | > | >

| > | > | > Make that three complaints. The fine engineering staff at Ademco | > | still | > | > | > hasn't figured out a way to copy a program from an older panel | type | > to | > | a | > | > | > newer panel type. So when you have to replace that bad keypad | with | > a | > | > | 6160, | > | > | > you find that means you get to replace the panel too, and you have | > to | > | > | > program the new panel from scratch. None of the program | > information | > | > from | > | > | > that XMPT2 can be copied to the new Vista 50P you have to install, | > | even | > | > | > though the programs are very similar. | > | > | | > | > | True but it's not that hard to save and print the old info out and | > | > download | > | > | it into the new panel | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | > How to waste an entire day on what was supposed to be replacing a | > bad | > | > | > keypad. | > | > | | > | > | That I can't argue with | > | > | | > | > | | > | >

| > | >

| > | | > | | >

| >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

EWW Take that bragging about you're "gear" to alt.mystuff or whever it is you talk about that crap.

Reply to
Tommy

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