Re: How does one find employees, including trainees?

"As far as ohm's law goes, I've never used it. What would I need it

You must be the best installer in the world. you've never had to chase down a faulty contact or bad wire. if you ever use a meter for much besides a paperweight you have been kneedeep in ohm's law.

shady wrote:

Maybe... I don't think I've had to do any real troubleshooting on my own systems... just other installers and especially other companies.

Seriously though, I don't assume to know everything there is to know. But (so far) faulty wires and contacts are easily found through continuity checks. Perhaps ohm's law is subliminally stuffed into that kind of thing? I can't even remember the formula to be honest.

I've never learned well through studying though, experience works best...

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." - Albert Einstein "My education was interrupted only by my schooling." - Winston Churchill "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

Ohm's law is one of those things we use all the time without even realizing it. kinda like algebra. what's x+3=5? that's algebra in its simplist form.

Unlikely.

More likely the technician was the end user of the pre-packaged implementation worked out be the designer of the meter.

Using an ohm meter to measure continuity, or even to measure a resistance and guestimate how far to a fault does not imply using ohm's law.

Now if you measure two of voltage, current, or resistance, and use those to determine the missing third, then you are using ohms law. But really, how often do you do that?

And no, don't delve into what the meter is doing internally, unless you are breadboarding up a meter from movements and shunts everytime you want to take a measurement. We know the engineer who designed the meter knows ohms law - the question is if the technician using the meter uses ohms law with any frequency?

Knowledge of Ohm's Law, however, implies a certain background or training in electronics.

Someone who knows Ohm's law is almost certain to understand the difference between a series circuit and a parallel circuit (very important in installing and troubleshooting alarms).

The last guy my company hired (and who is no longer working for us) overstated his training on his resume. He was a telephone "tech" in the military, and made it sound as though he was versed in electronics while all he really did was splice wires. Had they asked him that simple question (Ohm's law) we would have at least been working with a known value. Instead there was a lot of frustration before the rest of us figured out he really didn't know what he said he knew.

A few of us took him under wing and tried teaching him but he decided to quit instead. In his words, "its only a matter of time until they fire me."

So, while knowing Ohm's law may make one over qualified... it still means that they are likey to be able to handle anything the job throws at them (electronically).

I've had people work for me who couldn't quote Ohm's Law, but they still knew how to use a meter to trouble shoot. I think it's more that they understand to concept of current flow, resistance to that current flow and that votage is the "pressure" that moves the "current". Once understanding that .... it's sort of Ohm's Law with out knowing the actual formulas. They do it more by comparison and process of elimination. The actual formulas are really only needed for predetermining voltage drop , loads and current. Certainly a help if you know them, but for most troubleshooting cases, as easy as they are, a "tech" can get along 90% of the time, with out actually being able to recite them.

I would have to disagree. checking continuity is a perfect use of ohm's law. just because you aren't plugging numbers into a calculator dosen't mean you aren't using the formula. how can you use an instrument if you do not understand the feedback it is giving you.

Why would knowing ohm's law make one overqualified? that sounds like a comment from an unnamed (RLB) person who already says that alarm installtion can be done by "trained monkeys."

The above comment is from the same person who thinks that a one needs to know Ohm's law to use a continuity tester. He apparently doesn't understand that continuity testers only measure whether there is or is not a complete circuit.

While it is handy knowing Ohm's law when doing diagnostic work, that knowledge is rarely needed to install an alarm. Furthermore, one need not know Ohm's law in order to use a common VOM meter.

As to the trained monkey comment, the gentleman is simply displaying his own ignorance once again. What I said was that I could train any *primate* to install an alarm. The funny part was when the Waco moron responded in anger at being called (by implication) a primate. Clearly none of these folks made it through 9th grade biology class. :^)

You happen to be quite wrong. Ohm's law derives either resistance, voltage or amperage when the other two elements are given. A continuity tester doesn't read voltage or amperage. Some display resistance but that alone is insufficient to determine the other values.

Indeed. Since you obviously don't understand what "feedback" your continuity tester is giving, you clearly don't understand the instrument itself. Whether you actually happen to know Ohm's law or not is irrelavent.

BTW, I wasn't going to bother commenting at all until I noticed your snipe in the succeeding post.

Gotta agree with ya Tom! Why does the NY State License Class and State exam Teach AND TEST you for Basic Electricity including Ohm's Law? So you're OVER-qualified? Apparently they think it's important enough to LEARN for Security and Fire Licensing!

Tommy wrote:

I still disagree, continuity is "0" resistance to current flow. it does that by putins voltage on the line and seeing if it has current at the other lead, if that isn't ohm's law, what is? as it happens i understand quite well how and why a "volt-ohm" meter works so let me say this back to you, "Since you obviously don't understand what "feedback" your

As for the snipe, i'm really not trying to be harsh, but you have tried to give the impression that doing this job is ".... where monkeys can be trained to do a better job than some "professionals." quote by RLB.

If you'll read the post, what i said was that you do not have to be pluging numbers into a calculator to be using the formula. i would be willing to say that most techs worth a hoot understand ohm's law just fine. a good number of them probably cannot quote it but understand it nonetheless.

You are correct about one thing you don't have to know ohm's law to use a volt meter, but you probably couldn't tell a person what you are looking at on the meter either.

I would not want a tech who only knew that" bell ring good wire. no ring oh-oh, call supervisor."

If the "Tom" referenced above is Fowler, he wouldn't know about the NY state license because he doesn't have a license.

If you plan to do this work for a living you will be faced with service calls where knowledge of Ohm's law helps. Most paid technicians in the industry never even apply Ohm's law during the course of their work though. They use a VOM meter to read ohms, volts or milliamps directly when needed but can't do the math to derive an unknown without that VOM. Fortunately, the job can still be accomplished without ever knowing the formulas.

As stated earlier, you are wrong. That is not Ohm's law and it does not require knowledge of Ohm's law to operate a continuity tester.

That doesn't mean that you know Ohm's law. That just means you know how to use a VOM meter. The one does not imply the other and, according to contrapositive logic, the other does not require the one.

Note: Whether you do or do not know Ohm's law is not being questioned. It is only the idea that one must know Ohm's law to do this work and that one needs to understand Ohm's law to use a continuity tester.

The funny thing is I can quote you Ohm's law and I can explain it to you. I had to answer several questions related to Ohm's law on my license application some decades ago. Yet I've probably needed to actually use Ohm's law two or three times at most during the decades I've been in the industry.

No, you simply took a pot shot without provocation. That's par for the course in ASA.

Indeed I have seen work by some professionals that probably could have been done better by a trained monkey. If you decide to be honest about this you'll have to admit having seen some sloppy, witless, "professional" installations as well.

The reality is that alarm installation is not rocket science. Anyone with a modicum of tool skills and a bit of patience can be taught to DIY an effective, comprehensive security system. The other reality is that most people have neither the time nor the inclination to DIY. That's fine with me. I'm perfectly happy catering to the niche market of people who want to do their own installation.

Now we get to the source of your confusion. Ohm's law is about the relationship between voltage, current, and resistance. If you are not making conscious use of the relationship, you are not using ohm's law. Explaining what you see on the meter rarely involves using more than one of these parameters in isolation.

Ohm's law is not involved unless you measure two parameters and use them to determine (by feel if not calculation) the third.

And again, it doesn't matter how your meter actually takes the measurement presented to you. Just because the engineer who designed the meter made use of ohms law does not mean that the user does. If you are trying to read resistance, and the meter displays resistance, you are not using ohms law - only if it displayed voltage and current and left determining the resistance up to you would this relationship be involved in your work.

No, because it a moderately relevant topic which leads to problems easily included on an exam. It's not on their because you really need to know it, it's on there to test your intelligence - "this will be on the test, so learn it - now we'll see if you did" If you aren't able to handle that "test" assignment, they don't want you tackling the challenges of real world problems.

I don't see any problem with teaching material like this to trainees and testing them on it as part of a job-inspired intelligence test. But that is very different than expecting them to know it when they initially apply - it's largely unimportant and gets minimal attention in school, but it's not a complicated idea, so an intelligent person should be able to pick it up with a little instruction.

Who's opinion is that? YOURS? Did you write the exam questions? Do you administer the test?

It's not on their because you really need

Sorry jackass- it's there to test your Knowledge and how to apply it to your installations! - "this will be on

No-- this is a necessary part of electricity that you should understand and know how to use. - now we'll see if you did"

True If you aren't able

True, Again. To add to it- I don't want you tackling the challenges related to Ohm's Law Applications when it comes to FIRE!

What are you- the "Instruction Police"? The State Mandates to me the course content and the curriculum.

Again, I agree

- it's largely unimportant and gets minimal attention

Maybe in Grade and High School, but not where I teach! It's a part of every Apprentice, Masters, Journeyman, Security and Fire Course we teach. but it's not a complicated idea,

Guess Again- I rountinely am confronted by LICENSED MASTER ELECTRICIANS who can't understand ratio's, proportions, Kirchoff's, Ohms, Battry Calculations- I can go on. so an intelligent person

A very one sided, uninformed, and obviously uneducated opinion.