What are the voltage measurements of the pins by the capacitor?
What connects to this connector?
What connects to J1 and J2 (GND and PWR post, respectively)?
That black object between J1 and J2 is a relay. This relay needs to be activated by something, and I am guessing a power failure deactivates this relay, enabling the battery back-up.
So, are J1 and J2 inputs with the connector being the output, or vice versa?
Are you asking me to check the DC voltage across the capacitor of the D135A low-battery disconnect circuit?
formatting link
Specifically these two points, where I had previously measured the resistance (with no power to the circuit) across that same cap?
formatting link
J1 on the D135A board goes to gnd on the Radionics D2212B board. J2 on the D135A board goes to pwr on the Radionics D2212B board.
I do not know the answer. Here's a closeup of that relay:
formatting link
All I know, for sure, that's bad is that the ELK-TRG1640 transformer has a blown secondary (open circuit) but I don't know what blew it:
formatting link
I think the D135A low-battery disconnect is supposed to be taped to the battery, which turns off the circuit at 9.5V but otherwise does nothing else; so that's why I think it's weird that I get
0 volts across J1 and J2 when the battery is hooked up.
To see if it was the battery, I charged the battery on a car charger (6 amp limited) and I was surprised to see the battery only took about 30 ma (I had to measure it since it was too low for the car charger gauge to show any movement).
After five minutes, I took it off, and the battery measured at
13.5 volts (some of which might be surface charge):
Then, I hooked that battery to the D135A and measured across J1 and J2 again (which seems to be the 12VDC input to the alarm circuit board).
The voltage across the battery inputs was 13.31VDC:
formatting link
The voltage across the PWR and GND (J2 & J1) spaces was 0V:
formatting link
The voltage across the battery & the GND (J1) was 13.31 VDC:
formatting link
But the voltage across the battery & the PWR (J2) was 0 VDC:
formatting link
I don't understand that.
The voltage across the electrolytic capacitor was 0V:
formatting link
And, the capacitor leads appear to have heated up at one point:
formatting link
So, could it be that the 16.VAC transformer opened up a secondary when the battery protection circuit opened up a capacitor?
Seems unlikely, doesn't it? Especially just from turning off the main breaker with the generator kicking in the day before?
Dud, it looks to me like you got a bad module.. the Cap is bad just to look at, and since you need the relay to close to pass the voltage to the terminals, anything in that hold-in circuit that?s bad will disable that.. discard the module, if you still need a low voltage disconnect feature, try
formatting link
the Elk 965 will disconnect the power when voltage drops below its threshold ..
rts
Are you asking me to check the DC voltage across the capacitor of the D135A low-battery disconnect circuit?
formatting link
Specifically these two points, where I had previously measured the resistance (with no power to the circuit) across that same cap?
formatting link
J1 on the D135A board goes to gnd on the Radionics D2212B board. J2 on the D135A board goes to pwr on the Radionics D2212B board.
I do not know the answer. Here's a closeup of that relay:
formatting link
All I know, for sure, that's bad is that the ELK-TRG1640 transformer has a blown secondary (open circuit) but I don't know what blew it:
formatting link
I think the D135A low-battery disconnect is supposed to be taped to the battery, which turns off the circuit at 9.5V but otherwise does nothing else; so that's why I think it's weird that I get
0 volts across J1 and J2 when the battery is hooked up.
To see if it was the battery, I charged the battery on a car charger (6 amp limited) and I was surprised to see the battery only took about 30 ma (I had to measure it since it was too low for the car charger gauge to show any movement).
After five minutes, I took it off, and the battery measured at
13.5 volts (some of which might be surface charge):
Then, I hooked that battery to the D135A and measured across J1 and J2 again (which seems to be the 12VDC input to the alarm circuit board).
The voltage across the battery inputs was 13.31VDC:
formatting link
The voltage across the PWR and GND (J2 & J1) spaces was 0V:
formatting link
The voltage across the battery & the GND (J1) was 13.31 VDC:
formatting link
But the voltage across the battery & the PWR (J2) was 0 VDC:
formatting link
I don't understand that.
The voltage across the electrolytic capacitor was 0V:
formatting link
And, the capacitor leads appear to have heated up at one point:
formatting link
So, could it be that the 16.VAC transformer opened up a secondary when the battery protection circuit opened up a capacitor?
Seems unlikely, doesn't it? Especially just from turning off the main breaker with the generator kicking in the day before?
Hi, First of all, did you check the battery by hooking up a 12V automotive bulb to really see it is holding good charge at 12V? Secondly remove one leg of diodes and check them, one may be Zener type. do the same with capacitor. Remove any two legs off the circuit and check that transistor. The other K1 is a relay, you can check it same way. Then go to next step which you are trying to do now. First thing first. If you can find a URL for schematic, it'll be lot easier to TS.
No power supply on your work bench? If so you can use it as well. I have a lab. grade power supply with several commonly used voltage o/p. Very handy item to have.
The alarm system simply beeps when I plug in 12VDC
I plugged the 13.5V battery, without the ELK TRG1640 ac charger and without the D135A low-voltage-protection board, into the Radionics D2212B alarm system board.
The alarm beeped continuously, without any other indication of working, and the current I measured was 98 ma continuous:
formatting link
Can all that really happen simply by shutting off the 200Amp main breaker without also turning off the automatic power generator?
Looking at your picture, right above where the transformer leads connect to the terminal strip, there is an electrolytic capacitor right above a small bridge rectifier. I can't quite tell but the capacitor could be swollen and shorted. The 3 terminal voltage regulator is above that capacitor attached to the aluminum plate heat sink. Those are the main components of the AC to DC power supply and if one of them is shorted, that could kill the power transformer. ^_^
That's a very nice find, especially since three things appear to have been blown when I turned the power off without turning off the generator:
The ELK TRG140 16.5V AC transformer secondary windings are now open
The D135A battery-protection board cap is apparently blown
The Radionics D2212B alarm circuit board is apparently malfunctioning
The test of the Radionics board was to hook the battery directly to the power and ground leads. That drew 98ma and the alarm system merely beeped an incessant single beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep for the entire time that I left the battery connected.
There were unused leads for two batteries, so, I suspect there were two batteries in series initially. The battery in there now doesn't look all that old. The equipment was made in the 90s as you surmised.
That is the most direct test I could have run, so, following your advice, I took the power and ground leads coming out of the alarm system board and plugged them directly into the battery, which was at 13.5 volts.
The current draw was 98 ma.
But the only thing that happened was the alarm system made a single beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep that lasted the entire time that the battery was connected.
I tried this, multiple times, for no longer than the time it took to snap this picture though, as I didn't want to ruin anything further.
I'm surprised you knew *where* the transformer leads entered the board, because I didn't say, so, but I see what you're talking about.
Also, I'm surprised you knew that was a bridge rectifier, because, well, because I didn't - but - looking at it from the side, I can see four uninsulated legs, which indicate it has four leads, one of which is marked "+".
Here is the same picture, but, with a few things marked that I know of (including the electrolytic capacitor I think you're talking about):
formatting link
I looked and touched and that cap seems OK visually; but, of course, it's probably 20 years old...
For the first time, I'm wondering if it's not just a new transformer, but, that I probably need to replace the entire board...
Yeah. I've blown the 'bar' inside for the 10A fuse (my fault) and, I've had to replace the disc-shaped battery once (or twice?) but mine has to be from the early or mid 80s and it's still going strong.
Meanwhile, ELK called me back and explained the "limited" part of the "lifetime warranty" on the AC transformer. The service technician said mine has a PTC fuse in the secondary.
He said ELK will replace it for free as long as it was used within the specifications of the device, e.g., in an approved alarm system (which it was).
They told me I could send it to them, or, I could contact these local "trade distributors" to see if they would work with a homeowner:
Home Tech Solution 408-257-4406
Custom Electronics Supply 408-452-8300
formatting link
800-762-7846
So, at the very least, I'll get the transformer replaced, under warranty, by one of those four. Also, I'll ask all of them how much they sell the board I need.
BTW, must I get the exact same board? Or can *any* alarm system board suffice?
I called Bosch/Radionics at 800-538-5807 who told me they have plenty of D2212B(LT) boards in stock (the LT, they told me, simply means it comes without the external transformer in the kit).
But they can't sell them to me. They told me to go to Anixer or ADI.
So, I call Anixer at 925-469-8500, who says they can't sell the board to me, due to their legal agreements. I have to get it from a contractor as a "pass-through" (whatever that means).
So, this seems to be the path of the board: Bosch/Radionics sells it to Anixer who sells it to the pass-through contractor who sells it to me.
I wonder what the markup is each time?
Anyway, now I am looking for a "pass though" contractor, whatever that means. I mean, I realize it's an "installer"; but, I don't want an installer. I want a pass-through guy to just send me the board.
What do I google for? (The Anixer guys couldn't tell me.)
Now for the ADI guys ... 800.233.6261 ... ... they won't sell it to me either. I need a contractor's license. Sheesh.
It's getting to be harder to get a stinkin' alarm system replacement board than it was to get garage door torsion springs! :)
Does anyone know how I can find a "pass through" contractor?
Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.