Problem With ADT System - Need Advice

Cats are very difficult to adjust for, they may need to move the pirs to an area where the cats cannot get close to them and do more extensive tweaking - which can be time consuming and a big company like ADT may not want to spend the time doing this.

When I have a difficult cat situation (if I can't convince the homeowner to get rid of them:-) the way I deal with tweaking is I turn on the Chime/Watch Mode for that device. So the pir will beep the keypad when the cat trips the pir, then I don't have to actually be there all the time. I tell the homeowner to watch where the cat is going and report to me when they hear the keypad beep. We can watch this for a few days, in the meantime I may put that one particular zone on CS test as well so we don't gather a bunch of false alarms with the pd.

Then I go out and re-mask, tweak, etc.

But...cats ARE difficult...especially more than one.

Crash's comments in my opinion are right on the money, especially the point about ADT not wanting to really bother about solving your problems. As long as they get your money, that seems to be their major concern.

Cats ARE a major cause of false alarms. The two rules of thumb whenever you use pet motions are 1- Don't mount the motion where the cat can get within six measured feet of the device, and 2 - Don't aim them at stairs where the vertical motion of an animal running quickly up the stairs can fool the motion into thinking it's "looking" at a human.

Many situations can be quite tricky, but I have never found a situation where I couldn' t inevitably solve the problem. Young frisky cats that chase each other around the house when you are gone seem to cause a lot of the problems. Fat old cats sleep most of the time and don't usually cause any problems. Masking so the motion doesn't "see" directly down often works. If your panel has a double trip feature, that helps too (zone doesn't go into alarm unless it trips twice within a given time period). You didn't tell us what make and model of motions you are using. Some are much better than others. A dual technology motion( passive infrared with microwave built in) when also designed for animals, is significantly better than a regular motion with immunity built in.

All motion detectors are compatible with all makes and models of panels (assuming they work on the same 12 volts). It's just that big companies often standardize on certain makes and models and can't or won't consider anything else. I have had good personal experience with the Paradox DG75 motions, which I use standard in all installations, pets present or not, but they may not be commonly available where you live. Aritech make a very good pet motion (I can't remember the model number), and the Bosch devices (DS 820 and 835 I think) I have had very good luck with also. There are many more but these are just the ones I've used and had good experience with. The most "insensitive" one seems to be the DT 500 (which I refer to as "moose proof"). It's weight limit is 100 lbs, and may be necessary if the extreme situation warrants it.

At this point, you're probably best to try changing the make and model of motion detector. And whatever you do, put the motions on trial at the station for a period of time until you're comfortable the problem is solved, to ensure no false police dispatches. I'm a reluctant ADT third party dealer, and my experience with their monitoring station has been anything but good, but you may be able to get them to do this for you (or not). Something like.."Trialing pet motions; no dispatch of Zone X for X weeks on single motion alarms alone. Call dealer and client only"....or something like that.

Simply circumventing the problem with glass breaks and window contacts might solve the problem, but at considerable extra cost.

Finally, when your contract is over, use your memory of this service experience to decide if you want to find another company to monitor and service your alarm.

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, > I'm looking for some guidance on a problem I am having with my alarm

Sorry Crash , you didn't make that comment, the customer did...

RHC

tourman wrote:

I've also used cross-zoning two motions together to solve exteme cases.

By "cross zoning", do you mean that particular feature as set out in DSC panels. Or do you mean, putting in two motions looking at the exact same area from two different directions, but wired in parallel (so they both have to trip simultaneously in order to trigger the zone)

I've seen the latter option done on occasion, but in one instance I heard of, the installer didn't aim them carefully enough at the same area and someone got by the motion in a real break in. I've always been pretty leary of using that option ever since I saw that early on in my installation career.....

RHC

Crash Gord> I've also used cross-zoning two motions together to solve exteme cases.

No not in parallel...took risky imo.

I put them in slightly overlapping areas where a burglar would have to cross through both within a certain amount of time, then use the software cross-zone feature of the panels I install to set a crosszone time 5sec

10sec whatever seems right. If one zone trips it sends kinda fault, if both trip within the cross zone time it sends a real alarm. I can even crosszone a device with itself.

That's what I thought you meant actually. Didn't figure you for the amateur parallel trick. I takeover lots of DSC but only actually install Paradox. They have a neat feature called "intellizoning"....two trips needed on one zone during a specified period programmable up to

48 secs max. Works to solve lots of annoying little environmental trips for no apparent reason, yet set correctly, it doesn't materially compromise the device in question.

BTW, hear you got hit hard down Colorado way with snow blizzards. We here in Ontario, are up to 45 degrees, sunny with clear skies and clear roads. This has gotta be a first time ever I've seen this...hell, I could ride my motorcycle today if I hadn't put it away....

Sheesh....crazy weather...

RHC

Crash Gord> No not in parallel...took risky imo.

Yep same thing.

I'm not in CO, I can stand the cold...in my twilight years I guess. Im in AZ...it was beootiful today, right now it's down about 40 but I'm still wearing short pants everyday :-)

| > I put them in slightly overlapping areas where a burglar would have to cross | > through both within a certain amount of time, then use the software | > cross-zone feature of the panels I install to set a crosszone time 5sec | > 10sec whatever seems right. If one zone trips it sends kinda fault, if both | > trip within the cross zone time it sends a real alarm. I can even crosszone | > a device with itself. |

Chances are your system is "wireless", which means you'll have to rely on ADT to provide you a solution (not every PIR will be compatible). There are "alternative solutions", but as you mentioned, ADT is probably unwilling to spend the time/effort in implementing them. Perhaps you can post the model numbers of the PIRs and we can check with the manufacturer for you (about finding an alternative compatible detector for your system). Paradox makes the best pet immune PIR's I've ever used.

We have several installed in our house and one happens to be looking right at the stairs from the main floor to the second. The only false alarm we ever got was when she decided to climb the Christmas tree. Tree fell over. We were in Victoria at the time, and I had our guard service do a thorough perimeter check. I figured it was the "stupid cat", what with only one zone in alarm (and all the glass protected). The cops arrived fifteen minutes *after* the guard service (and they were there in about ten minutes of getting the call).

Happy Holidays all!

Thanks to Crash Gordon, Tourman and Frank Olson for your assistance. I've been checking your responses from time to time over the past few days and now that the big holiday is behind me I'm going to put some time into trying to get this resolved.

Here's the deal: The motions are Bosch DS835i Microwave Intrusion Detector with Pet Immunity. In the room I've had two false alarms from the closest thing to the motion is a couch. The back of the couch is just 4 1/2 feet from the motion and at the height of the couch, about 3 feet from the floor. In the room I have had one false alarm from the closest thing to the motionis again a couch. This time the back of the couch is 6 feet from the motion and again 3 feet from the floor.

I guess my questions at this point are:

1) Are these distances of 4 1/2 feet and 6 feet too close to warrant trying a less sensitive motion such as those mentioned by Tourman or by Frank Olson?

2) Does this system have the "double trip feature" Tourman recommended or the "cross-zoning" Crash Gordon mentioned? My Google research tells me this Safewatch Pro 3000 is really an Ademco Vista 20P in disguise. The double-trip idea sounds like it might reduce false alarms and may be effective when the house is empty but that it might run the risk of missing someone coming in during the night and heading straight up to my bedroom having only tripped the motion once. I like the idea of the cross-zoning and would be willing to pay to have two additional motions installed, one to work with each of the two 1st floor motions.

When I say willing to pay I don't want to sound like someone looking to get something for nothing. I specifically brought up my concerns about the two cats at the time of installation and the furniture is in the exact same place it was when the system was installed. I was assured that the placement and the type of motion detector would prevent false alarms so I tend to think they are partly to blame for the situation. I have no complaints about ADT yet, other than the current situation, they have been very accomodating. I guess their resolving - or not resolving this problem will be the true test.

Thanks again for your assistance and I look forward to more of it!

Take care.

The units are hard wired. ADT will have access to the Paradox line through several distribution outlets in the US. Call your account rep and tell them you want Paradox DG75's installed at the manufacturer's recommended height. I can't honestly believe a company like ADT still think "pet alleys" are the way to go (mounting a motion sensor three feet off the floor). Your false alarms will disappear.

No. The Paradox DG75 will work. They may have to mask the lens to prevent it from seeing the couch(es) (or move the sensor to another location to increase the distance to the couch).

If you can, avoid going the cross-zoning route. In my book, it's the same as installing a motion sensor upside down and three feet from the floor. What if the perp "stops" long enough for the counter to reset between trips?

The Bosch sensors aren't "pet immune". They're "pet friendly". Two entirely different philosophies.

Sorry. I "Googled" for the detector model and one of the first links I clicked on was an eBay website (not the Bosch one) which referred to it as "pet friendly". It looked like another "cut and paste job" so I figured he got it from some Bosch supplied literature. We don't use them at all. In reviewing the PDF, though, it appears the installer mounted the units three feet from the floor and upside down. That's a no-no particularly as the "top view" (which becomes the "bottom" when the unit's turned around) isn't "pet immune" at all. That could be the source of all his problems right there.

Sir, I'm having a little difficulty understanding from your description exactly how the motion is placed relative to the couch. These motions should be mounted 7.5 to 9 feet above the floor level. As well, if I remember correctly, there may be an internal setting that the board has to be at in order to allow the PIR part of the unit to "see" at the correct angle. Check the board to make sure it's adjusted for the correct mounting height of the unit. If the unit is mounted at up at the correct height on the wall, then 4and a half feet is probably too close, and six feet only marginal.

Again, without being there to see it, I can only guess to some degree. Whatever you do, make sure the PIR part is masked so the unit doesn't "see" down....it only looks in the distance so it looks OVER the top of the couch.

Try this hoaky little trick. It's not exact, but might give you some indication of the sensitivity of the location. Kneel on the couch and move your head from side to side along the top of the couch, as if your head was actually the cat moving along the top of the couch. Does the motion trip ? If so, you've likely confirmed that this is the problem (although your body weight might still be fooling the device) The Bosch is a good motion detector; it's quite likely the problem is still placement relative to the couch.

BTW, its not likely that ADT would consider buying Paradox equipment. Some years ago, the story goes they tried to purchase the company and the owner wouldn't sell. Since then, ADT( in our area anyway) tell clients that Paradox is junk !!

Hehehe....don't yah just love "institutionalized corporate stupidity".

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I'll second that. The DSC system that came with our townhouse has a PIR in the living room, mounted a good 10' off the floor in a corner (ceilings are 16'). It's impossible for a person to cross through the living room without tripping it, but it's high enough that it's not yet in three years had a false due to our four cats. The one set of stairs within it's "view" has a 'pony wall' along its side, so people going up them are picked up, but cats aren't.

What might be adding an extra measure of insensitivity to your setup is the fact that the motion is so high up on the wall, and when you move in front of it, you are at quite a distance away from the device. So it's still sensitive to your body mass, but a small cat at that distance doesn't register much.

I swear, sometimes I think making pet motions work reliably is one quarter science, one quarter art, one quarter luck and the other quarter just plain magic.....:)))

RHC

Matt I>

I guess Paradox is big up there north of the ditch. No one seems to use it around here, although a least one parts house here says they sell it (or would sell it). Since it doesn't have CP-01 sticker (according to my limited information) it doesn't look like I'll ever find out for myself one way or the other.

I sell Paradox every day. I've also used some of their detectors (mainly the DG75) myself. They work reliably and they're relatively inexpensive. For more difficult locations (for example, multiple pets) I like the Visonic K-980D. I have not used their controls though the Magellan series has become quite popular in some areas of the US. One of my clients in Rhode Island has bought several of them. He installed one in his own house and is not selling them to his own customers. He's just getting his feet wet in the trade.