I had a service call to move a keypad today because the customer is removing the wall where it was previously mounted. After the move keys 369# (and the various special function keys) no longer work. Keys 124578*0 still work fine and user codes using those keys (fortunately they had some programmed) still arm and disarm. I didn't drop or abuse the keypad in anyway during the move. It seemed like an easy service call.
Chances are some drywall dust (or other non-conductive material got behind that row of keys. Take the keypad apart and clean all the surfaces (back of the buttons and the PCB with some alcohol swabs).
Do you really know for sure that the keypad was working correctly before you moved it or did the customer tell you that it worked fine before. You say that they already had codes that did not use those "now" non-functioning keys. It is possible if they had codes that did not require the use of those keys that you mentioned, that they did not know that there was anything wrong. I doubt that you tested those keys prior to removing it, you would have had no reason to suspect anything prior.
You may be the innocent victim of either the customer knew there was something wrong with it and blames you wrongfully; or they knew nothing of it either and you are ending up with the blame and it had nothing to do with moving it.
Disassembling the keypad and cleaning may work, but I have experienced those keypads with that similar problem myself-they can just go bad. Hopefully, they are paying for the keypad in any case, for your sake. The age of the keypad can matter as well as finding out the fact that their system got surged somehow. If you can find something else on their system that does not work correctly, such as wired doors or windows that do not chime, or other things, you might find that the system got zapped at one time.
Hope this helps you in some way. I just would not assume guilt and responsibility in your case until you have logically reasoned the whole thing out first.
I'm not to worried about it if I have to eat the keypad (which I won't). They have three full data with cellular accounts with me, and they always pay on-time.
ay because the customer is removing the wall where it was previously mounte= d. After the move keys 369# (and the various special function keys) no long= er work. Keys 124578*0 still work fine and user codes using those keys (for= tunately they had some programmed) still arm and disarm. I didn't drop or a= buse the keypad in anyway during the move. It seemed like an easy service c= all. Any suggestions? I did already order a replacement keypad.
Had they already begun construction? Maybe dust inside? Did you disassembl= e and look at the lands on the PC board? Is there a ribbon connector that m= ay have come loose? I don't know the configuration/layout of the keypad but= it looks possible that 3,6,9 and # are all in a verticle row. That would i= ndicate (to me, anyway) either a loose/bad connection either on the PC boar= d or wires in the keypad or something to do with the processors matrix. If = you have an eye loup or good magnifier, look at the solder connections on t= he PC board. In removing the Keypad, you may have flexed the PC Board and b= roken a component or lead solder connection. It depends on how crazy you wa= nt to get with it but, you could touch each of the solder connections with = a (not too hot ) iron. Nah! Only I'm that crazy.
I did take it apart and give it the eyeball, but I didn't go get my reading glasses out of the truck. Never carried a loupe in the truck, but I do have a couple in the shop. Maybe its time to start.
On Friday, October 5, 2012 8:44:28 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com... > On Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:59:48 PM U= TC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: >> PK5501 LCD Some Keys Don't Work I had a servic= e call to move a keypad >> today because the customer is removing the wall = where it was previously >> mounted. After the move keys 369# (and the vario= us special function keys) >> no longer work. Keys 124578*0 still work fine = and user codes using those >> keys (fortunately they had some programmed) s= till arm and disarm. I >> didn't drop or abuse the keypad in anyway during = the move. It seemed like >> an easy service call. Any suggestions? I did al= ready order a replacement >> keypad. > > Had they already begun constructio= n? Maybe dust inside? Did you > disassemble and look at the lands on the PC= board? Is there a ribbon > connector that may have come loose? I don't kno= w the configuration/layout > of the keypad but it looks possible that 3,6,9= and # are all in a verticle > row. That would indicate (to me, anyway) eit= her a loose/bad connection > either on the PC board or wires in the keypad = or something to do with the > processors matrix. If you have an eye loup or= good magnifier, look at the > solder connections on the PC board. In remov= ing the Keypad, you may have > flexed the PC Board and broken a component o= r lead solder connection. It > depends on how crazy you want to get with it= but, you could touch each of > the solder connections with a (not too hot = ) iron. > Nah! Only I'm that crazy. I did take it apart and give it the eye= ball, but I didn't go get my reading glasses out of the truck. Never carrie= d a loupe in the truck, but I do have a couple in the shop. Maybe its time = to start.
At times I think I could use a pair of glasses with two 20X eye loupes glue= d onto the lens of the glasses.=20
I think it must be the air polution that prevents me from seeing as good as= I used to.
369# (and the various special function keys) >> no longer work. Keys 124578*0 still work fine and user codes using those >> keys (fortunately they had some programmed) still arm and disarm. I >> didn't drop or abuse the keypad in anyway during the move. It seemed like >> an easy service call. Any suggestions? I did already order a replacement >> keypad. > > Had they already begun construction? Maybe dust inside? Did you > disassemble and look at the lands on the PC board? Is there a ribbon > connector that may have come loose? I don't know the configuration/layout > of the keypad but it looks possible that 3,6,9 and # are all in a v erticle > row. That would indicate (to me, anyway) either a loose/bad connection
processors matrix. If you have an eye loup or good magnifier, look at the >
solder connections on the PC board. In removing the Keypad, you may have >
flexed the PC Board and broken a component or lead solder connection. It >
depends on how crazy you want to get with it but, you could touch each of > the solder connections with a (not too hot ) iron. > Nah! Only I'm that crazy. I did take it apart and give it the eyeball, but I didn't go get my reading glasses out of the truck. Never carried a loupe in the truck, but I do have a couple in the shop. Maybe its time to start.
onto the lens of the glasses.
Naw. It's the sea air. Too much salt in your eyes. :-)
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:36:42 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
8 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: >> "Jim" wrote in messa= genews: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com... > On Thursd= ay, October 4, 2012 7:59:48 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: >> PK5501 LCD Som= e Keys Don't Work I had a service call to move a keypad >> today because th= e customer is removing the wall where it was previously >> mounted. After t= he move keys 369# (and the various special function keys) >> no longer work= . Keys 124578*0 still work fine and user codes using those >> keys (fortuna= tely they had some programmed) still arm and disarm. I >> didn't drop or ab= use the keypad in anyway during the move. It seemed like >> an easy service= call. Any suggestions? I did already order a replacement >> keypad. > > Ha= d they already begun construction? Maybe dust inside? Did you > disassemble= and look at the lands on the PC board? Is there a ribbon > connector that = may have come loose? I don't know the configuration/layout > of the keypad = but it looks possible that 3,6,9 and # are all in a v erticle > row. That w= ould indicate (to me, anyway) either a loose/bad connection > either on the= PC board or wires in the keypad or something to do with the > processors m= atrix. If you have an eye loup or good magnifier, look at the > solder conn= ections on the PC board. In removing the Keypad, you may have > flexed the = PC Board and broken a component or lead solder connection. It > depends on = how crazy you want to get with it but, you could touch each of > the solder= connections with a (not too hot ) iron. > Nah! Only I'm that crazy. I did = take it apart and give it the eyeball, but I didn't go get my reading glass= es out of the truck. Never carried a loupe in the truck, but I do have a co= uple in the shop. Maybe its time to start. > > At times I think I could use= a pair of glasses with two 20X eye loupes glued onto the lens of the glass= es. > > I think it must be the air polution that prevents me from seeing as= good as I used to. >
RHC: Occasionally I find DSC panels and keypads can do VERY strange things.= Today I was working with a 5501 keypad on a DSC panel and suddenly all th= e zones didn't work any more, while they were working just fine before I me= ssed with the keypad. Well to make a long story short, "somehow" messing wi= th the panel turned "off" all the zones 1 through 8 in Section 202, disabli= ng all zones. There is absolutely NO logical way this should have happened = but it did since I up until that point hadn't entered installer programming= mode... WTF!=20
And of course there is the other rule to remember with DSC panels..if somet= hing isn't happening the way it should, or there's a trouble that just wont= go away, power the panel down and back up. Chances are it may solve that i= nexplicable problem...WTF
RHC: Occasionally I find DSC panels and keypads can do VERY strange things. Today I was working with a 5501 keypad on a DSC panel and suddenly all the zones didn't work any more, while they were working just fine before I messed with the keypad. Well to make a long story short, "somehow" messing with the panel turned "off" all the zones 1 through 8 in Section 202, disabling all zones. There is absolutely NO logical way this should have happened but it did since I up until that point hadn't entered installer programming mode... WTF!
And of course there is the other rule to remember with DSC panels..if something isn't happening the way it should, or there's a trouble that just wont go away, power the panel down and back up. Chances are it may solve that inexplicable problem...WTF
Weird little PITA things like the DSC Gremlins is why I gave up on Napco years ago... I got tired of the panel freaking out, when I just wanted to program and test the thing and GO Home.......
On Friday, December 7, 2012 11:49:26 PM UTC-5, tourman wrote:
n Oct 10, 9:33=A0am, Jim wrote: > > > On Tuesday, Octob= er 9, 2012 2:00:20 AM UTC-4, Frank Kurz wrote: > > > > On 07/10/2012 8:25 P= M, Jim wrote: > On Friday, October 5, 2012 8:44:28 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe w= rote: >> "Jim" wrote in messagenews:ef5b0e3a-9a06-42a5-= snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com... > On Thursday, October 4, 2012 7:59:4=
8 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: >> PK5501 LCD Some Keys Don't Work I had a = service call to move a keypad >> today because the customer is removing the= wall where it was previously >> mounted. After the move keys 369# (and the= various special function keys) >> no longer work. Keys 124578*0 still work= fine and user codes using those >> keys (fortunately they had some program= med) still arm and disarm. I >> didn't drop or abuse the keypad in anyway d= uring the move. It seemed like >> an easy service call. Any suggestions? I = did already order a replacement >> keypad. > > Had they already begun const= ruction? Maybe dust inside? Did you > disassemble and look at the lands on = the PC board? Is there a ribbon > connector that may have come loose? I don= 't know the configuration/layout > of the keypad but it looks possible that= 3,6,9 and # are all in a v erticle > row. That would indicate (to me, anyw= ay) either a loose/bad connection > either on the PC board or wires in the = keypad or something to do with the > processors matrix. If you have an eye = loup or good magnifier, look at the > solder connections on the PC board. I= n removing the Keypad, you may have > flexed the PC Board and broken a comp= onent or lead solder connection. It > depends on how crazy you want to get = with it but, you could touch each of > the solder connections with a (not t= oo hot ) iron. > Nah! Only I'm that crazy. I did take it apart and give it = the eyeball, but I didn't go get my reading glasses out of the truck. Never= carried a loupe in the truck, but I do have a couple in the shop. Maybe it= s time to start. > > At times I think I could use a pair of glasses with tw= o 20X eye loupes glued onto the lens of the glasses. > > I think it must be= the air polution that prevents me from seeing as good as I used to. > > > =
I didn't think of that excuse. > > > > > > How kind of you. > > > > Swapped= the keypad, works perfectly including some codes that didn't > > work befo= re... interesting. RHC: Occasionally I find DSC panels and keypads can do V= ERY strange things. Today I was working with a 5501 keypad on a DSC panel a= nd suddenly all the zones didn't work any more, while they were working jus= t fine before I messed with the keypad. Well to make a long story short, "s= omehow" messing with the panel turned "off" all the zones 1 through 8 in Se= ction 202, disabling all zones. There is absolutely NO logical way this sho= uld have happened but it did since I up until that point hadn't entered ins= taller programming mode... WTF! And of course there is the other rule to re= member with DSC panels..if something isn't happening the way it should, or = there's a trouble that just wont go away, power the panel down and back up.= Chances are it may solve that inexplicable problem...WTF
I "hate" when crap like that happens. I think ..... if something like that = can happen to me ..... what the hell is the customer going to think when it= happens to them?
On Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:43:15 PM UTC-5, Russell Brill wrote: Weird little PITA things like the DSC Gremlins is why I gave up on Napco years ago... I got tired of the panel freaking out, when I just wanted to program and test the thing and GO Home.......
In my reply to Robert, I was going to say that I've never experience things like that with Napco panels. ..... Oh well.
Let me say this in Napco's defense; Gremlins never appeared with the P3200 or a few of the P9600's I installed, but the lower end panels seemed to suffer from reoccurring infestations :)
snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com... > On Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:43:15 PM = UTC-5, Russell Brill wrote: > Weird little PITA things like the DSC Gremlin= s is why I gave up on Napco > years ago... I got tired of the panel freakin= g out, when I just wanted to > program and test the thing and GO Home......= . > > In my reply to Robert, I was going to say that I've never experience =
co's defense; Gremlins never appeared with the P3200 or a few of the P9600'= s I installed, but the lower end panels seemed to suffer from reoccurring i= nfestations :)
I've used Napco for lot's and lots of years. Never had any major issues wit= h their products, even previous to the Gemini line. Their programming was t= he hardest issue for most "newer" users of their products but if (like me )= you were using them from the beginning, the programing was just an evoluti= on from the previous line of products, so the programming never seemed dif= ficult to me. The one advantage it DID have is that it made all other mfg's= programing a breeze. In the older Napco lines there were occasional little= "quirks" but they were able to be remedied quickly/easily. But I always us= ed the upper end of their products anyway and tried to stay away from their= lesser products that they made to compete with the other mfg's low end equ= ipment. Like now, I only use the P1632 .... on up .... so maybe that's a r= eason I've not had any problems. Also, my policy is to never use a newly in= troduced product until it's been out for about a year. I'd think that's a m= ajor reason also and should be applied for ANY mfg. But (in my experience) = that goes ESPECIALLY for DSC.=20
Don't know if you read it in my earlier post or not but just I had an issue= with their radios that had a flaw that they didn't issue a recall on. We h= ad the storm here on the east coast. Power out for some people for weeks. = When radio loses all power and battery wears down, when unit powers back up= it destroys the unit and it has to be replaced. Long past warranty. Fortun= ately I only have two of them installed.=20
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