Panel grounding

I don't ground. if one gets hit then I use one of these.

This ought to be fun! This bunch never could agree on that topic.

I'm a non-grounder if we're going to tally votes.

RHC: Not just this bunch; I don't think the industry can agree on this point. I don't ground either and in troublesome situations, I use the same Elk isolator as the other gentleman.....

no ground here either but we do fuse break the telephone input

RHC: Not just this bunch; I don't think the industry can agree on this point. I don't ground either and in troublesome situations, I use the same Elk isolator as the other gentleman.....

That doesn't do much after the fact :)

That doesn't do much after the fact :)

Having an electrician back round I ground all the time and it actually helps prevent problems when done properly. The problem is getting a good solid ground. of course I do commercial so I go off the electrical systems ground wire which is code by the way and where all ,phone,catv, etc grounds should be going and I check it first to make sure it is working proper. I also surge protect incoming leads to panel and often put main line surge protection on customers electrical service panels as part of the whole package to protect all the electronics and prevent interactions during a surge event. Proper tied in unified grounding works excellent but too many techs from all fields fail to follow code and you end up with a mess as usual situation and I end up getting called in to correct problems .

RHC: Yeah, I agree with you. I keep precise statistics on service work. With over 1000 panels in service, I have had to replace a total of 8 boards due to electrical surges damaging the panel in 15 years. Had I installed the Elk grounding unit for everyone, that would have been a cost of over $30,000 with limited payback. I prefer to spend the extra money on upgraded keypads and upgraded pet motions for everyone, and deal with dead panels as they happen (at $50 a pop plus cost of a service call). This with a severe lightning strike problem in parts of our city being a known fact as well...

BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer location, and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone company plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took me twice to learn....:((

BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer location, and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone company plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took me twice to learn....:((

I have a customer that had been hit twice before I put the elk unit on. his house is on a granite outcrop and he apparently can.t get a very good ground. on the third hit the elk unit blew out knocking out the phone line. but the panel board was ok. all I had to do was replace the elk unit. not much difference between the price of the elk unit and a new board, though. made me wonder if it was really worth it but it was easier to replace the elk unit than rewire a new board. if the panel was like the old moose where you could just pop a board on without touching the wiring I might think twice.

Im dealing with commercial fire and high end combo fire/burg panels and the panels have to work its a life safety issue and we get plenty of lightning and high wind storms, brown outs , poles hit etc here in Pa. so the protection is well worth it $25.00 to save upwards of several thousand dollars.

Have customers who had direct hits and there buildings were saved as well as vast majority of equipment was saved Vs other buildings hit around here that went up in flames go figure. It is just like the $100.00- 3 phase power protectors I install on machines etc which saves thousands of dollars in motor replacement.

RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything else in business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations are precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. But for "low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is under question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! It's not cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspective when so few systems are affected.....

RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything else in business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations are precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. But for "low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is under question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! It's not cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspective when so few systems are affected.....

plus there is no quarantee when it comes to lightening. it can just as easily blow out the protection and the panel.

..

Another reason i do not do residential. no money in it. lets see do 20 residential systems to make what i do on high end integrated commercial real tough one there.

m...

You think residential a tough sell now wait till they cost of sprinklers and all breakers have to be arc fault style at $40.00 a pop plus new energy insulation standards including a vacuum test all come into effect in next 2 years they will not be building homes any more.

m...

I guess that depends on how you look at it. You could also spin it to say you could do 20 small residential systems in the same time it takes to do one high end integrated commercial system, and collect RMR from all 20 of those accounts indefinitely.

But for me the choice is easy since their is virtually no demand for high end commercial systems in my service area.

I have a hard time believing that you would convince any small, mostly residential/light commercial dealer with a decent number of accounts that there is " no money in it ". I guess it would all depend on each individuals perception how much money "no money" is.

..

com...

I guess it really all comes down to the market in the area you service. "You think residential is tough to sell now"? Not where I live. . Plus most builders in my area, especially those who sub out the wiring to electrical contractors, have been installing arc-fault breakers for some time now. An average home around here might have 10 to 15 receptacle circuits, assuming a standard single pole breaker costs an average of $5, and an arc fault $40, that means an increase of $350 to $525. Not a huge difference on a $100,000+ purchase. In addition many builders here already voluntarily do the vacuum test because the resulting energy rating is a bonus when selling the home.

..

com...

I have the advantage of not having to rely on RMR on accounts I make money both installs and service plus I offer services no one else can on the integration end . Since I am cross trained in electronics , electrician and refrigeration I can offer some very unique designed systems. I could step away from alarms today and make money selling telco/data services, commercial sound /paging and intercom ,electrical/trouble shooting services and electrical mechanical design services you should see the custom built 12/24 DC and 220/480 VAC control systems I build for people. and never touch an alarm panel. Plus I am a Broadcast engineer i could just work in that field full time if i wanted to. I was fortunate enough 30 yrs ago to see the steel mills were going down around here so I went to every trade school and class i could get my hands on I figured this way i would always have work which was a good thing. Alarms are just part of the services I can offer a customer. So I do not go out and bid against alarm company's customers come looking for me because the custom work I can do that no one else can. Yet idiots around here think I am stealing work from them when it is work they can not do. I am not even in the phone book and do not advertise.

Ask Al Colombo from SSI Magazine he has seen a lot of my stuff.

It also begins when RLB gives a shot or two