Opinions on backup reporting devices

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I have a problem with some of the backup wireless devices that are
being promoted and being  used today that don't promote or provide for
redundancy reporting.

In the past, when setting up back up radio devices, the back up device
reported at the same time as the land line dialer. Now days, I find
that even though the devices are now capable of sending CID .... they
never send an alarm signal unless the dialer doesn't detect a dial
tone. And anyone I talk to about this just doesn't think that it
matters.

Any one have thoughts on this?

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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RHC: Well, lets look at the alternatives...

1- Dial tone works, panel reports regularily, backup unit is
static....all is well
2- Dial tone doesn't work, backup reports....all is still well. Backup
likely advises the fact that TLM is down, either then or in advance,
in which case client knows his phone line is out in advance of the
alarm...all is well
3- Dial tone works, panel sends, backup also sends and duplicate
signals are received at the station....not sure how good or useful
this is, but in some cases it can count against your signal count on
the backup device

If the backup device is only used for backup, I don't think it matters
much if at all. If it's being used as primary communications, the
signal goes through faster than a phone line. If the backup device is
programmed NOT to send the weekly or daily test....all is still well,
since lack of a test signal from the panel itself tells the dealer
that the panel is not working in regular phone line mode for whatever
reason.....

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't see a problem ???

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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How about line is so noisy signals can't get recognized properly by CS, but
there is dial tone and line voltage?

 


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RHC: Ok, that's one.....

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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How about .... the last time the installer was there for a trouble
shooting call, he forgot to reconnect the trip wire to the backup
device.

How about the trouble that DSC had where their backup device was
sending supervisory signals but wouldn't trip in the alarm state.

How about when the cable company back feeds the telephone line through
a phone jack and although the panel senses a dial tone it gets cut off
when the panel tries to send.

I have a feeling there's more but I can't think of anymore right now.

But, part of the point I'm getting at here ....( aside from the
redundancy/lack of security issue)  is that now ..... since everybody
is trying to get in on the recurring revenue golden egg .... Like DSC,
Alarmnet, etal, .... sending wireless signals are being charged by the
transmission. and THAT's what's driving it in the direction it's
going.

And THAT'S the issue.

For what reason do you or I need another "partner" in sending alarm
signals to central station. We pay the phone company, we pay the
ISP's. We pay the central stations. Why do we have to pay anyone else?
I can't believe that there's no way to just send a signal to central
station by just using a cellular phone device ..... same as a land
line telephone without paying someone eles for the "privilege" of
doing it because they manufacture equipment that can only operate
using a network that they control. CCTV mfg's set  up DDNS servers and
don't charge for it .... What's the problem here?

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
Jim Wrote:

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If you can negotiate with the cell carriers to use their "control
channel", go for it.


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Uh I think we all went through that debacle just a few years ago

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I understand one of the manufacturers is working on a flag semaphore
system, only drawbacks are it has to be line of sight and data
transfer is very slow

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I've got a semaphore for you .... It consists of my middle finger,
pointing up.


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Gotta use a flag, people can't see that from a distance

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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RHC: Why would that surprise you ? Everyone wants a share of the
golden goose. Large multinationals sell their souls everyday for RMR.
Hell, companies buy each other out simply to get the lists of that
company's customers so they can target them for sales of other
recurring revenue products and services ! Even cable companies are
starting to bundles numerous services together simply to get more of
the recurring revenue "pie".

Everyone wants in......but your question is no less valid

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You can't tell me that there is NO WAY that a device can't be designed
that will allow alarm signals to be transmitted over VoIP .... I don't
believe it. Change the format. Change the bandwidth, Change the
frequency, change the pulse width. Use sum check, use WHAT EVER and
get it done. All these mfg's are doing is coming up with their
proprietary methods using 20 year old technology and THEIR primary
purpose is to insure that they are getting a piece of the RMR instead
of trying to fix the problem.





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That's hard to believe. So let's see .... AlarmNet, who's primary
busines is figureing out how they can create a need for a product that
requires them to retransmitt a signal to my central station, doesn't
charge anything at all, to anyone in the signal path for this? So the
central has to have the appropriate receiver and this module is
universal or only compatable with Hornywell products?

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices

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There seems little point trying to make an alarm panel communicate over
VoIP, if the customer has VoIP then they have a broadband connection so they
should just use an IP communicator and be done with it.

Doug






Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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That's a valid point. However, it's possible that it would be less
expensive to produce a product that would work with VoIP. I dunknow.

So .......... what's the next step? What are the objections to using
IP communications. Whatever they are .... let the manufacturers
overcome them ( without becoming my parther and without over
pricing  ) and let's get on with this. Provide a panel with built in
land line/VoIP/Cellular/IP Comm/Semaphore flags/Morse code
Whatever!   .... going directly to a receiver at the central station.
Why the brain freeze?  I aren't an injunear but ....... I mean ......
with all this technology out there, is it really possible that there
ISN"T a way to do this?  I don't believe it.

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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I'm sure it's possible but most installation companies won't pay for
it and with what is out there now it's not worth it.

IP-only communications are fine until the customer's router or cable/
DSL modem goes down, that is THE problem

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
doug Wrote:

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Agreed, they are usually too cheap to pay for the extra cost of equip. &
monitoring though.


Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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If they could they would have long long ago

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Cool! now you've made everything incompatible with every central
station receiver out there

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CID and SIA aren't proprietary and look how long it took to get people
weened off of 4x2?


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Other than the cost of the equipment no they don't charge anything,
the signal path is direct between the panel and central station

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It requires a 7810ir Internet receiver, the panel side would use a
7847i and if the panel is capable of CID then they have a dialer
capture module available

Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
mleuck Wrote:

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But not have remote access and the cool shit that the panel is capable
of.


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Then the CS would not send an ack. (kiss off), and the FTC would trigger
the backup device.  Correct?

What backup device specifically?




Re: Opinions on backup reporting devices
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It depends on how you set up the panel, you can have redundant or
backup reporting with Honeywell panels and AlarmNet cell/IP devices,
with TelGuard and Uplink you are limited to either cell primary or
backup.

What cell units are you specifically talking about?

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