Oil Refinery

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A customer at a hydrocarbon refinery wants to kick out his current provider.
The existing cameras are at least 6 years old. Most look bad, but that is to
be expected with the age as well as the level of workmanship involved.
However there are signs that the environment there has taken an extra toll
on the equipment. The customer wants to replace some of the fixed cameras
with PTZ cameras. I have never installed a PTZ in a refinery that I can
recall. Anyone here have any tales to tell about that kind of environment
and how well a PTZ would do?



Re: Oil Refinery
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ExtremeCCTV has a raft of "all-environment" cameras
which we carry. They're not cheap but they'll still be
working until you record the Second Coming...  :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota Florida 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>


Re: Oil Refinery
First you will need to find out if any of these cameras fall within the
hazardous location areas of the facilty which means they have to be
explosive proof designed first and foremost. and all cabling etc has to meet
the NEC requirements.

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Re: Oil Refinery
Well I thought of that. Bosch Gen 3 cameras had a pressurized model we used,
but I haven't gotten a good answer from the rep on a Gen 4 equivalent model.
I was going for at least one VG4-524-ETE1R model. I was not worried about
"needing" explosion proof housing since I don't think it would be an issue
(with the Aiphone LED and maglocks and strikes etc already there) in the
area of deployment. However if there was an accidental release of something
nasty from the refining area, without a pressurized dome the gas could enter
the sensitive areas of the camera dome and cause problems.

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meet
there
PTZ
about



Re: Oil Refinery
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Before you get too worried about explosion proof cameras, definitely
find out if any of them will be in an explosive atmosphere.  Those do
exist within a refinery but they don't comprise the major portion of
the environment.

In any case, Extreme also makes explosion proof camera units.  Here's
a link:
http://www.extremecctv.com/products.php?producttype_id=4&whichpage=1

We get a fair number of orders from government and military buyers.
They rarely know the hardware -- just the make and model number
they've been asked to source.  One buyer called for some explosion
proof mafnetic contacts from GE Security.  While I was taking her
information, she asked, "How can these things withstand an
explosion?"  :^)

Regards,
Robert L Bass
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com


Re: Oil Refinery


what kind of baloney is bAss pulling now?



Re: Oil Refinery
Spammy wrote:
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It's a mystery to me why he would want to post a response impersonating
one of the individuals he despises the most...  A lot of things Robert
does defies explanation.  For instance...   Why would a "successful"
online business not provide a contact email address, or an "800" number
on their "cotnact us" page?  Why would he spread his efforts between
three or four websites when he's supposedly doing so well with the one?
  How does one program a custom English LCD keypad to read "Attention
Burglar.  Go Ahead Make My Day" when you only have 32 total characters
available on two lines of sixteen?  And is it true that the people at
ADI are under pressure to cut him off because he's an unlicensed company
(and a felon to boot)?  Stick around...  but keep your hip waders handy.
  The bullshit gets might deep around here at times.

Re: Oil Refinery

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ADI doesn't care about anything but numbers.  He has an established account
and he buys a lot of merchandise from them.


--
Sincerly,
The guy who makes the final decision on who we buy from.
Bob La Londe

The Security Consultant
Bob La Londe - Owner
P.O. Box 5720
Yuma, Az 85366

(928) 782-9765 ofc
(928) 782-7873 fax

Licensed Contractor
ROC103044 & ROC103047



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Oil Refinery

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how would you know?  crystal ball? swag? or do you just buy the crap he is
selling on the GROUP?



Re: Oil Refinery
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I've dealt with ADI for many years off and on.  All they care about is
money.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


Re: Oil Refinery
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We sell ~$2M a year and it's all hardware --
no labor.  Very few independent dealers come
close.  That's not all from ADI though.  We
have accounts with most of the national
distributors and several regional ones.  We
buy some lines directly from manufacturers.

I'm about to add a major product division catering
to locksmiths.  As soon as I get the product feeds
set up correctly I'll launch the new website.

I'm also planning to build a separate site just for
CCTV equipment.  With over 90,000 static pages
our three existing sites are getting cumbersome
to "regenerate" when we make significant changes
and additions.  Breaking the CCTV section off into
it's own 40,000 page site ought to help.

I never thought the site would grow this large when
I first decided to go online.  The original website
had less than 200 products.  Now I'm looking into
buying additional machines for "fail over" service
in case the primary web server goes down.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota Florida 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>


Re: Oil Refinery
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Ummmm ..... just because there are other devices in the area that are
not rated as explosion proof, doesn't mean that they were installed
legitimately. I'd check anyway.

I've never installed any of that type of equipment, but I can't tell
you how many times I've found non plenum cable in plenums. I'll always
tell the client that there'll be additional cost for plenum wire, and
if they say to install otherwise, I make them sign a waiver that they
were informed or .... it's in the estimate that they sign off on, that
the installed wire is non-plenum, by customer request.


Re: Oil Refinery
As a rule we always consider ALL wire runs as plenum unless PROVEN otherwise
(meaning okay for PVC). There are too many times when a wire run starts out
as a non plenum, but before it reaches the target it goes through a return
air or similar area.

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Re: Oil Refinery
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Any time we installed in an office or store front location,
we would check first.  During construction there are
invariably a set of prints.  A couple of minutes spent
looking at what others are doing will go a long way
toward protecting your own work.

At times when working for the owner or tennant and a
GC is doing the construction, the client won't not even
know what a plenum is, let alone whether his ceiling
space is one.  If the HVAC ducts are already in place
when you begin your wiring (and they really should be
since HVAC guys will cut any wires that happen to be
in their way), just look at the setup.  If there's only
one set of ducts feeding the area, the ceiling will likely
be a plenum.

In a competitive market you don't need to load your
bid down with plenum cable if it's not called for.

Also, someone said he gets the client to sign off on
using non-plenum cable.  That's no protection for the
installer.  The customer is not the arbiter of code.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota Florida 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>


Re: Oil Refinery
It is weird all of the things that get recorded that you never imagined
could happen, let alone be recorded. It is creepy when people get seriously
hurt or even killed and it's all there in ones and zeros. That is one part
of an integrators world I never expected and never expected to be so
bothered by. But to answer the second coming question, I'll say if I catch
Jesus on an autotracker then I'll post it here.

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provider. The existing cameras are at least 6 years old. Most
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workmanship involved. However there are signs that the
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wants to replace some of the fixed cameras with PTZ
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Anyone here have any tales to tell about that kind of
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Re: Oil Refinery
Having a customer sign off on plenum wire does not relive you of liability
if there is a fire etc.
As some one who investigates fires part time for a living you do not want to
put your self and your company into such a comprimised posistion.
When i investigate fires for insurance companys the first question always
asked if it involves anything electrical is.

"Does the equiptment as installed  meet the codes  in effect at time of
install yes or no"

"does the fact equiptment was or was not installed to code effect its
perfomance in this case yes or no"

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Re: Oil Refinery
Nick Markowitz Jr. wrote:
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No, but it does give you a couple things:

It may help drive home the seriousness of why you're insisting on the
more expensive wire, rather than just as an up-sell, and cause the
customer to rethink cheaping out (not likely, but it's there).

It also gives you a little protection from the CUSTOMER, when the
inspector comes back and says, "Nope, this wiring won't pass, it's not
plenum-rated" and the customer either hits you with "Why didn't you tell
me?" and/or wants to be difficult when you charge him the materials and
labour to completely remove and redo all the wiring you've done already,
ON TOP OF the original install.


Re: Oil Refinery
Well said.

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Re: Oil Refinery
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And also wrong.

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

=============================>
Bass Home Electronics
941-925-8650
4883 Fallcrest Circle
Sarasota Florida 34233
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
=============================>


Re: Oil Refinery
Robert L Bass wrote:
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How so?


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