New Simon 3 erratic behavior

Sounds like a programming error.

Not much there. I removed the sensor and readded it. Set the alarm on for the first day (today) around 9am, and went to work.

Around 10:30am, the online monitoring site reported

Sensor Tamper Alarm: Zone 3 at 10:25 AM on Wed, Nov 28

I have to say this about my NextAlarm/Simon 3 Adventure... I'm not impressed with the Simon 3, to me it will likely go back if i can't get that motion sensor to work right. Also, the keychains have been setting off another error about :

Supervision RF Loss: Zone 5 at 3:01 AM on Wed, Nov 28

All that said. NextAlarm seems to be a pretty brilliant business Idea. Their site gives you real time information about the status of the alarm, and it provides an RSS feed you build an alert around. They even offer a $5/mo and free level of service. They have online support, but it is very limited. If I can just get the simon 3 to stop doing false tripping I might just keep it.

Anybody know of a simple wireless alarm with a remote dialer -meaning it's dialing wireless so I don't have to run a phone line to it? - I know there are rj11 devices that do this.

I usually stay out of these things as I've done with you so far, but sometimes it just gets to be too much and I just can't resist.

If you'd have hired a competent installer in the first place you wouldn't be going through this. What you're going through is just the chance you took when you decided to do this on your own. I doubt that there's anyone here who can help you. It sounds like one of those "experience" things that one runs into, when trying to do something they aren't equipped to handle. Call a few local installers and see if any of them are willing to come over and straighten out your installation. I'm sure they'll find a number of things wrong that you think you did right and it will be well worth whatever they charge to have a working system. You've tried it the hard way. At the least, why not let some one reassure you that you have everything right. After all, I'm sure you did this with a purpose in mind, which I presume is protection of your family and possessions. After all that you've invested up till now, why not have the satisfaction of knowing that it's going to do what you started out wanting to do.

Also, if you thought you were getting a bargin in monitoring fees, how does it feel now, when you can't get any help? It all ALWAYS boils down to

Ya get what ya pay for. This Simon system is a tinker toy. That is .......... If you'd hired an alarm installation company to install a "real" system and was being monitored by them, you wouldn't be going through all this shit now. Your alarm system ( what little you have) would be low on your list of priorities and you could be off doing something that you are more capable of doing.

No doubt most busy professionals would agree. But then again I know a lot of guys out there who don't own a power drill. BTW, any guy who does not own a power drill should have his man card revoked.

And I kinda knew I was cutting corners a bit and I might be in for another painful lesson. Personally, I always come out the other side with an appreciation. And My motto, why pay three times as much, when I can try to do it right three times. :)

But for what it's worth, I know people with professionally installed wireless systems from ADT and Protection one. They too get false alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire alarm. I've seen it.

In my case, I want the certificate for the insurance discount and eventually I don't want real monitoring, just something I can rely on to alert about 4 friends and family.

I cut my own hair, the first time I did it I had to wear a baseball cap for two weeks for fear of being misidentified as a skinhead. :). Today, the haircuts I give myself I do in 10 minutes and are the best ones I've ever had.

Thanks for the feedback.. Its all good.

True indeed. Besides, alarm work isn't rocket science. If you can read a manual you're probably over-qualified.

Also true and frankly, you'll often get a better system by doing it yourself than what some "professionals" will offer. Some of these guys do try to provide a quality alarm but many couldn't care less about anything but getting the job done as fast as possible. That's one of the reasons police departments are flooded with false alarm signals all over the country.

ADT and P1 aren't the only culprits. Most alarm companies farm out their monitoring business to large, national central stations. Service quality and speed varies from mediocre to awful. The worst part is the markup. The central station charges alarm dealers between $2 and $7 a month for "basic" residential monitoring. The alarm company resells the service for anywhere from $20 to $40 a month and the cost bears no relationship to the price. They charge whatever they can get away with.

Once you're signed on for monitoring services, watch out. Most have at least a three year agreement. Some insist on five years. If you move or cancel they'll threaten and harass you, go after you in court, wreck your credit, whatever it takes to keep that monthly check coming in.

In many cases that's all you need. Why pay some rip-off alarm company $40 a month to do what your neighbor can do for free, especially when the neighbor will do it faster and more reliably?

I probably aught to cut mine, too, but there's so little up there it's not worth bothering.

You're most welcome.

bass said:

RW: Anyone who can read can read a manual. It's understanding and applying what you read that matters. Alarm installation manuals are written by engineers for other engineers and often follow no logical order. I've been in this racket a few years now and it still takes me several reads to finally get it.

bass says:

RW You forgot to mention you might need some basic skills first.

bass: Some of these

RW Can't argue with that.

bass says:

RW Mediocre to awful? You mean no national central gives good to excellent service? I don't think that's fair to good honest central station owners that are working hard to give our customers what we dealers pay them to do.

bass: The worst

RW I heard that you're the one who charges whatever you can get away with.

bass:

RW Not everyone does that.

bass answers:

RW Yeah like that guy in Texas who blew away the perps too. Make sure your neighbors are home by their phones 24 hrs a day watching your place. :)

RW Why don't you coat your noggin with 3M cement and do a headstand on your local barbershop floor? It's cheaper than the Hair Club for Men and its all natural. :)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D>

The very fact that you're using two of the worst offenders to compare with, is indicative of your lack of knowledge of this trade. If you'd read any past posts in this Newsgroup, you'd find dozens of similar stories about the National alarm companys. ANY company who installs "lick and stick" systems, is not interested in security, it's all about the contract and the monthly income. It's usually only the people who don't want to take the time to investigate what a security system is about or who've been brainwashed by the advertising or brand names, or by on-line vendors like Bass, who are dumb enough to get caught in thinking that a security system is an "off the shelf" commodity. So you're pretty much off the mark with that comment.

So it's NOT about securing your home and family. Well, then, I guess that's a whole other story.

With regard to the friends and family, how long do you think it's going to take for them to ignore your unreliable alarm system? As a matter of fact, what do you expect that they're going to do, even if they GET a call? Run to your house? Call the authorities? Will they even GET the call? Are they all home during the day? Are they at work or out shopping or on vacation or wherever? But ..... then again, I forgot, it's all about the insurance discount. After all, I'm sure you've got a good discount, on line homeowners policy too.

Then with that being said, on top of the insurance discount reason for installing an alarm ....... my only conclusion is

I'd say, you're just a cheap SOB and I'll just have to let it go at that.

Yeah .... and it's FREE too!

(Hey guys, sorry. I know .... I know .... I just thought I'd give it a try) (sigh)

That, my friend is oxymoronic. Those companies have lots of accounts, and a huge advertising machine. They fool a lot of people who are too lazy or too stupid to recognize a quality security system. In my experience, ADT and Protection 1 residential systems are neither security systems, nor are they professionally installed. They are among the poorest, most hastily assembled collections of cheap alarm hardware to be found in the industry, and they account for a huge percentage of false alarms. They have also fostered the belief that a quality security system can be had for nothing. They are, quite simply, a blight on the industry.

I believe that, in part for the reasons stated above.

This makes me wonder about what kind of insurance company would give a discount for a non-functioning alarm system installed by a neophyte.

I dont know what to say about that one. I guess it speaks for itself.

Well, its free anyway. You will no doubt like that part. Good luck. Ed

Bass issues the "certificate" for the alarm systems he sells online, doesn't install, and has never seen completed (let alone tested).

can you say insurance fraud?

I'm not so sure that something like this qualifies as fraud. It does give the insurance company "an out" when paying claims though (or a means to recover the alarm discount when there is a claim).

This is true. Fortunately, the information in most of the manuals can easily be understood by anyone with a modicum of understanding and a little patience. DIYers call from time to time asking us to explain things which might not be immediately clear. The most common questions have to do with "zone types" which are simply groups of related features that can be turned on or off in programming. Some folks need a bit more coaching than others but that is true in all fields.

I disagree. Alarm installation manuals are written by engineers for alarm installers. Alarm installers in this country are definitely not engineers. The average education level of alarm installers in the USA is less than complete high school. One fellow we knew ran an alarm company for many years yet he had dropped out of eighth grade. From the grammar of many who post here it is apparent that there are not many college educated people in the trade.

There's a logical order to most manuals but some folks don't see it.

That is no indication of what a person of average intelligence could do.

Basic skills are indeed needed. For example, one needs to be able to use a screw driver, wire cutters and a drill. You need a basic multi-meter (about $20 at RatShak). A cheap soldering iron helps, too, though many installers prefer to use crimp connectors which are faster than solder and tape.

get false alarms and I know they get two hour response from a fire alarm. I've seen it.

Agreed. I was being too harsh. Some do give decent to excellent service. Unfortunately for the homeowner, it's impossible to know before signing a multi-year contract whether the service is going to be excellent, horrid or somewhere in between.

On most items our markup is between 20% and 30% over cost. On very small items we mark up more (as do most other companies) because it costs just as much to process a $10 order as a $10,000 order.

True, but the problem is so pervasive that ths industry gets a much deserved black eye for it.

I didn't see the news reports on that -- only read third-hand comments here. Nevertheless, in many instances neighbors may be able to respond faster than police. Even in large cities police response to alarms is so slow that it's all but useless. In some rural areas you may as well send a post card with a picture of a policeman on it.

Hmm. DIY hair implants? You could start a new website.

I've recently taken to recinding my discount certificates if people cancel monitoring...never used to, but I figure they shouldn't get that additional disc. if they are not monitored.

As you should. I hate free-loaders.

RHC: I'm totally confused by your post Crash. If it's not monitored, why would there be any sort of discount applicable at all, so why would you have to "rescind" anything.

I've never heard of any insurance company giving any sort of insurance discount for a non-monitored system (In my neck of the woods, once the system is no longer monitored, any companies that I know of want nothing to do with it whatsoever, including servicing it). And really, why would any insurance company extend any sort of discount since the system is virtually useless unless you have professional response of some sort to an alarm !!!!

Is it different in your part of the world ?

I think it's been mentioned here that *some* insurance companys offer a smaller discount if the system isn't monitored. I've never heard of it here in my area.

They were monitored...when/if they cancel I send notice to the insurance co.

Some insurance companies DO give disc. for local alarms - Allstate used to give 5% for local and another 5% for monitored (roughly).

As you should. I accumulate free-loaders.

I've recently taken to recinding my discount printers if people cancel monitoring...anymore acclimated to, but I figure they shouldn't get that disgraceful disc. if they are not monitored.