Just for discussion.

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Hello all, no matter how few!!  :-)

The other day I received a call from a customer that said that
morning a police officer showed up and asked if there was a problem.
The office manager said; "No, I just got here at the office 20 minutes
ago.  The officer said; "County Control received a call from a phone
number here with no one on the other end when answered."

Turns out the number that called 911 was their Fax number.  I was called
to investigate what may have happened.  The Fax number is also used for
the Line #2 to the Fire Panel.  The line used is a POTS line and there
is an outside Demarc.

After it was determined that it was the Fax the Office Manager turned
the machine off.

When I arrived I checked the line and all was as it should be.  Only
two devices connected to the line, Fax and Fire Panel.  I tested
the line to my cell to verify the number.  I checked the Demarc and
all looked and worked as it should.

I connected my Butt Set at the Fax Machine and put on speaker.  Turned
it on and nothing.  Then sent a Fax to my office, Ok.

I called the County Control Center and talked to a Supervisor who  
verified just one call at 7:51am.  He had their Tech Guy call me
later.  Basically we determined it to be an unsolved mystery.

Although I did express a theory that would fit the scenario.

===============================================================
A teenage snot that just wanted to have fun took a old corded
phone and opened up the Demarc box and plugged into the first
port.  Dialed 911 and after the first ring hung up. Closed
the box and hid behind a bush snickering.
==============================================================

The Tech Guy liked that 'maybe' but then told me a true story about
a tomato.  Officer was dispatched a house with a active number that
called 911.  Approached and asked the lady of the house who was out
in her garden if everything was ok??  She said yes, why??
Officer explained and they went into the house to check the phone.

What was found was a tomato sitting on the window sill far to long,
had started to leak juice.  The juice trail went down the wall and
onto the phone sitting below.  Juice got into the phone and shorted
out the 9 & 1 on the DTMF pad and made the call.  WOW!!!

Tomato and phone were placed in the trash bin.

Ok, that is the start of the discussion.

Anyone care to contribute??

Thanks,

Les

Re: Just for discussion.
On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 1:20:58 PM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:
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One question leading to one very remote possibility is:
Does the CS telephone number have nines and or ones in it?

Another question leading to another remote possibility is"
I'm thinking that if it's a DTMF line that it probably also has rotary dial capability.  
Land lines are becoming more and more of a problem as the telcos ignore them and as they try to switch everyone to fiber or cellular.  

Maybe an intermittent connection (?) coincedently and ultimately dialed 911. Any crackling or static on the line?

And ya know?  I've always had this bad feeling about tomatoes. Ya know?  
Just something about them -------

But celery on the other hand -------



  

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 12:51 AM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Hi Jim,
I did not hear any crackling or static on the line.
But, then again I am on the deaf side of things with high frequency
hearing loss.  However, it is something I should check with a
different ear sometime.

I did ask the question about the back numbers to 911.  Was told that
there were at least 10 or so that would get there.  Was not told
what they were.  Either way with just a Fax and the Fire panel
connected to the line it does seem a bit odd for a 3 digit or a
10 digit number to be dialed in some way to get through.
Tomato or no tomato.  ;-)

Les




Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 7:19 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
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I'd blame the local telco,
I had one here which cross connected over a hundred lines from 2
different towns.
Talk about old style party lines......
It seemed that the 2 towns were serviced by the same telco switch
house..
An in-house cable upgrade was the cause,  they had cross connected the
lines when changing out the old cable and the tech "forgot" to remove
the old cable from the ckts..  (or so they said)    LOL

RTS
--  

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*


Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 12:12 PM, RTS wrote:
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Yes, good point Rocky,
I have been in buildings that have had phone company punch down blocks
with Teclo lines there that were for another building.  The numbers were
totally unrelated to the in house business.  Telco just used it as a
splice block for the area.

So it is possible that the same may be possible here.  In that the
actual Fax number is landed some where else and easily accessible by
anybody.  I will bring that up if/when the issue comes up again at this
particular site.  So far, it's be almost a week and all is good.

**Could change in a heart beat.........................

Les

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 6:06 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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might also request a reverse caller ID on the incoming calls for that
time frame..
We've found several "kiddie" calls over the years that way..
---
We also had a "fellow" alarm dealer, who retreaded several old dialer's
(DD-1's, DD-3's)
and didn't delete the second page of dialer programming..
(seems they were using the old accounts numbers again)
Well needless to say we also had several "odd" alarm reports..
We also found those with the reverse Caller ID ...

RTS
--  

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*


Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 9:58 PM, RTS wrote:
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Not sure what you mean by "reverse Caller ID"  Isn't that what
County Control did to find out where the call came from??



Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 8:12 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
 > On 7/20/2020 9:58 PM, RTS wrote:
 >> On 7/20/2020 6:06 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
 >>> On 7/20/2020 12:12 PM, RTS wrote:
 >>>> On 7/20/2020 7:19 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
 >>>>> On 7/20/2020 12:51 AM, Jim Davis wrote:
 >>>>>> On Sunday, July 19, 2020 at 1:20:58 PM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:
 >>>>>>> Hello all, no matter how few!!  :-)
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> The other day I received a call from a customer that said that
 >>>>>>> morning a police officer showed up and asked if there was a  
problem.
 >>>>>>> The office manager said; "No, I just got here at the office 20
 >>>>>>> minutes
 >>>>>>> ago.  The officer said; "County Control received a call from a  
phone
 >>>>>>> number here with no one on the other end when answered."
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Turns out the number that called 911 was their Fax number.  I was
 >>>>>>> called
 >>>>>>> to investigate what may have happened.  The Fax number is also
 >>>>>>> used for
 >>>>>>> the Line #2 to the Fire Panel.  The line used is a POTS line and
 >>>>>>> there
 >>>>>>> is an outside Demarc.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> After it was determined that it was the Fax the Office Manager
 >>>>>>> turned
 >>>>>>> the machine off.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> When I arrived I checked the line and all was as it should be.  
Only
 >>>>>>> two devices connected to the line, Fax and Fire Panel.  I tested
 >>>>>>> the line to my cell to verify the number.  I checked the Demarc and
 >>>>>>> all looked and worked as it should.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I connected my Butt Set at the Fax Machine and put on speaker.
 >>>>>>> Turned
 >>>>>>> it on and nothing.  Then sent a Fax to my office, Ok.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I called the County Control Center and talked to a Supervisor who
 >>>>>>> verified just one call at 7:51am.  He had their Tech Guy call me
 >>>>>>> later.  Basically we determined it to be an unsolved mystery.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Although I did express a theory that would fit the scenario.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> ===============================================================
 >>>>>>> A teenage snot that just wanted to have fun took a old corded
 >>>>>>> phone and opened up the Demarc box and plugged into the first
 >>>>>>> port.  Dialed 911 and after the first ring hung up. Closed
 >>>>>>> the box and hid behind a bush snickering.
 >>>>>>> ==============================================================
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> The Tech Guy liked that 'maybe' but then told me a true story about
 >>>>>>> a tomato.  Officer was dispatched a house with a active number that
 >>>>>>> called 911.  Approached and asked the lady of the house who was out
 >>>>>>> in her garden if everything was ok??  She said yes, why??
 >>>>>>> Officer explained and they went into the house to check the phone.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> What was found was a tomato sitting on the window sill far to long,
 >>>>>>> had started to leak juice.  The juice trail went down the wall and
 >>>>>>> onto the phone sitting below.  Juice got into the phone and shorted
 >>>>>>> out the 9 & 1 on the DTMF pad and made the call.  WOW!!!
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Tomato and phone were placed in the trash bin.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Ok, that is the start of the discussion.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Anyone care to contribute??
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Thanks,
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Les
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> One question leading to one very remote possibility is:
 >>>>>> Does the CS telephone number have nines and or ones in it?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Another question leading to another remote possibility is"
 >>>>>> I'm thinking that if it's a DTMF line that it probably also has
 >>>>>> rotary dial capability.
 >>>>>> Land lines are becoming more and more of a problem as the telcos
 >>>>>> ignore them and as they try to switch everyone to fiber or cellular.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> Maybe an intermittent connection (?) coincedently and ultimately
 >>>>>> dialed 911. Any crackling or static on the line?
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> And ya know?  I've always had this bad feeling about tomatoes. Ya
 >>>>>> know?
 >>>>>> Just something about them -------
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> But celery on the other hand -------
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Hi Jim,
 >>>>> I did not hear any crackling or static on the line.
 >>>>> But, then again I am on the deaf side of things with high frequency
 >>>>> hearing loss.  However, it is something I should check with a
 >>>>> different ear sometime.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I did ask the question about the back numbers to 911.  Was told that
 >>>>> there were at least 10 or so that would get there.  Was not told
 >>>>> what they were.  Either way with just a Fax and the Fire panel
 >>>>> connected to the line it does seem a bit odd for a 3 digit or a
 >>>>> 10 digit number to be dialed in some way to get through.
 >>>>> Tomato or no tomato.  ;-)
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Les
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>>>
 >>>> I'd blame the local telco,
 >>>> I had one here which cross connected over a hundred lines from 2
 >>>> different towns.
 >>>> Talk about old style party lines......
 >>>> It seemed that the 2 towns were serviced by the same telco switch
 >>>> house..
 >>>> An in-house cable upgrade was the cause,  they had cross connected the
 >>>> lines when changing out the old cable and the tech "forgot" to remove
 >>>> the old cable from the ckts..  (or so they said)    LOL
 >>>>
 >>>> RTS
 >>>
 >>> Yes, good point Rocky,
 >>> I have been in buildings that have had phone company punch down blocks
 >>> with Teclo lines there that were for another building.  The numbers  
were
 >>> totally unrelated to the in house business.  Telco just used it as a
 >>> splice block for the area.
 >>>
 >>> So it is possible that the same may be possible here.  In that the
 >>> actual Fax number is landed some where else and easily accessible by
 >>> anybody.  I will bring that up if/when the issue comes up again at this
 >>> particular site.  So far, it's be almost a week and all is good.
 >>>
 >>> **Could change in a heart beat.........................
 >>>
 >>> Les
 >> might also request a reverse caller ID on the incoming calls for that
 >> time frame..
 >> We've found several "kiddie" calls over the years that way..
 >> ---
 >> We also had a "fellow" alarm dealer, who retreaded several old dialer's
 >> (DD-1's, DD-3's)
 >> and didn't delete the second page of dialer programming..
 >> (seems they were using the old accounts numbers again)
 >> Well needless to say we also had several "odd" alarm reports..
 >> We also found those with the reverse Caller ID ...
 >>
 >> RTS
 >
 >
 > Not sure what you mean by "reverse Caller ID"  Isn't that what
 > County Control did to find out where the call came from??


I don't know what reversed call ID is, but back in the early 90s (maybe  
late 80s) Enhanced 911 with full account information became the norm.  
Police received name, address, number, etc from all incoming 911 calls.  
They did not receive that from calls on their non emergency dispatch  
numbers.  Only 911 calls.  Its also why every cell in the USA is  
required to have a GPS now.  It turns on automatically when you call  
911.  Mine turns on sometimes on its own.  I try to always leave it  
turned off unless I am using a mapping service for directions.

When the Internet became mainstream and just about everybody still had a  
landline there were reverse phone lookup services that actually worked  
(for free).  You could punch in a number and they would search white  
pages to find the name on the account.  I used it a number of times to  
hunt down and identify errant signals coming in on my toll free CS  
lines.  I sometimes had to wait for my toll free bill to arrive to make  
sure I had the right number.  it didn't always match the call ID, or the  
call ID didn't always go through to the CS.


Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 10:12 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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may be the same thing.
(The phone guys, way back when,  always gave us the "evil-eye" unless
we requested the "Reverse" Caller ID..


--  

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*


Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/20/2020 4:06 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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I've been in a lot of businesses like that.  Where the entire cable down  
an alley is brought into every building on that street.  Its annoying as  
hell, but it does allow for easier redistribution of resources as  
businesses change.  It also allows for savy people to eavesdrop on  
conversations and/or steal service with little effort.  I don't recall  
the details, but some couple decades ago there was a federal regulation  
change that phone companies had to make it easier for fed to execute  
wiretaps.  I don't recall all the details, but that was around the same  
time I stared seeing a lot of 50 and 100 pair cables looped into new  
buildings and new plant improvements projects.  I always thought the two  
were connected.  With the newer digital CO switches I always wondered  
why they just didn't have a data link into the COs.  Some rural  
exchanges still had mechanical switches at the time though.



Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 11:18 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for the extra Tidd Bits, I just knew you would contribute
some good stuff!!  It would seem that we ALL have seen the loop holes.
I had a day "waaaaay back" that I was out in the country and no  
payphones around and I needed to make a phone call.  I was soooooo
tempted to pop open Demarc on the nearest house, hook up my Butt Set and  
make the call.  BUT, I controlled myself!!!!  I am sure I wasn't the
first to have the thought.  I am sure it has happened..... somewhere!!

Les

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 11:01 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
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(( gonna let the cat out of the bag,  yes you are... ))   LOL
HeHe,  Les,  I always carry a butt set..
((and I'm suppose to be retired)))



--  

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*


Re: Just for discussion.
On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 12:01:49 PM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:

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rs were

s a
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e down  

ing as  
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call  
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 same  
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he two  

red  

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I've had to do it a few times through the years. But I left a quarter in th
e mail box.    

(NOT!;-)

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 9:01 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
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It doesn't help of course that you can buy a butt set at Home Depot or  
Lowes these days.

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 2:10 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Absolute agreement!!!
Which adds to the scenario I posed being a possibility!!  :-)



Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 11:20 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
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There is another more sinister if probably unlikely possibility.  The  
cops wanted a look around and made it up.  How legit is the client?

Remember it is not against the law for them to lie to you.

Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 3:07 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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LOL Really??  The cops will/can actually do that??
I see the makings of a new movie..................
I guess anything is possible...............


BTW  This Fax (number) is in a local town borough office.

Les



Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 12:35 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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Yep.  They can and will although usually you only hear about it in an  
interrogation.  Sometimes they will do it to try and get you to doubt  
your own memory.  "Oh, I've been with the department since 19xx, and no  
officer by that name ever existed.  Certainly not at the rank and  
position you claim."  No shit.



Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 4:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Bob,
Hmmmmmmm sounds like you were on the wrong end of the stick.
And you remember it well!! Sorry to hear.  It is too bad that
kind of stuff has to happen.

But, then again it is unlikely it will never change given the condition  
of the human psychic.  We can wish for better, doesn't mean we will ever  
get it.  Years ago I had purchased some furniture from a guy I worked  
with.  Found out later that he was arrested for property theft.

I reported to State Police that I had two pieces and wanted to get them
out of my apartment.  Was asked by the officer on the case to come to
the police barracks to make the report.  Turns out that two detectives
started to imply that I was involved in the theft or I should have known
the furniture was hot because of the low price that paid. It was about
time my button got pushed.  I gave them a piece of my mind, demanded
that they get the furniture removed from my apartment and walked out.
I ended up calling again in two weeks and told the detective that if the
stuff was not picked up that day I was going to put it out in the
parking lot and they can come by at any time to get it.  He was there
within the hour.  Ended up as a witness for the prosecution and had to
sit outside the courtroom for 3 days counting bricks on the wall. '763'
He pleaded guilty to a lesser charge or something.  Huge PITA!!!

Yes, I remember it well!!

As well as a very few other police moments in my life.
Some I won, some not so much.  All minor issues.
As I understand the "statutes of limitations" have expired.  ;-)

Les









Re: Just for discussion.
On 7/21/2020 2:31 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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Actually I was first told about lying to people as a matter of course in  
class at ALETA.  Since then I've stood there and listened to COPs lie to  
people (and a couple times to me) while I just mentally shook my head.

The worst part is if you lie to them during the course of their official  
duties you can be charged for it.  (never happened to me)  Its best to  
remain silent.

Just google (or bing if you prefer) Are The Police Allowed To Lie?




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