Industry Members Only Sub-Forum

No, geesh and you guys wonder why we need a civilized forum. Don't get your panties in a wad.

They aren't verifiable at this time then. They could have someone at the company that does have a company email account send the request for them. If the company doesn't have email at all then the forum isn't going to help them.

I'm not stubborn, if someone suggests something that would be verifiable without us hiring a private detective full time to verify, I'm open to suggestions. Loosing the registration to the point that anyone can register without adequate proof defeats the whole purpose though.

Then lets hear those 6 better ways and stop complaining.

It wasn't ignored, it was already answered days ago when the idea first came up. LinkedIn doesn't validate anything and doesn't prove anything to anyone. I can say I'm President of Super-Duper Wonderful Alarm Company - it just means I typed it in.

As for ignoring your request to join... until you sent in verification information it was going to be ignored anyway.

If you can't understand WHY validation is needed then you shouldn't be there. If there are other methods of validation which can be performed without having to call someone and which can't be faked without spending sizable amounts of money, present your ideas.

Rhetoric without ideas is just noise.

James, if you consider yourself a "member" of ASA (if there IS such a thing) and .... you say you've been lurking for 10 years, could you explain why?

Could it be because everyone here has always gotten along so well and you didn't want to spoil things?? Could it be because you just didn't have anything relavent to say because you knew everyone would agree with you? Could it be because Mark posts such positive things about everyone that you didn't want to be embarrassed by being complimented by him? Could it be that you were so astounded by the scope of my vocabularian excursions in the the netherlands that you just thought you couldn't compete? Could it be that you actually agreed with Paul?

or ...... or ..... let me see ...... for the life of me, I can't think of any other person who has ever participated in this group or any other events that have occured in ASA that may have made you remain anonymous for 10 years. Hmmmmm Can't think of another thing.

Oppps ..... I can't really say you were anonymous though ...... can I ? Since, while you were lurking ...... you were obviously lurking using your real name ...... so that's not really technically "witholding" your identity .... or ....or......is it? Jeeeeeze ..... this is really confusing .....

So ..... NOW...that all of the past events are not occuring here in ASA now ..... nothing that would make one want to withold their identity could ever happen AGAIN ..... Is that it? ....

NOW ...You think everyone should expose who they really are but yet you wait for 10 years, hiding in the bushes while the war rages because ....... why ..... uhhhh could we hear exactly why that was and why you don't consider that as witholding personal information about yourself and why you actully decided to do that?

Jim,

Im scratching my head..... but ill try to respond :)

Everyone dosent need to expose who they are, just that they work in the security field. If your an alarm guy you would understand the reason to have a validated forum. And maybe lurking was the wrong word, I contribute to this forum when their are meaningful posts and sometimes when they are not so meaningful.

James B

A few questions from the occasional DIY'er isn't going ruin this group. At this point in ASA's existence, no one has really taken it upon themselves to even post the FAQ and from what I've seen in the last two years or so, even that's not necessary. I hope to continue to enjoy your contributions to the discussion as much as I have everyone elses.

I was going to ask the same thing, how could a 'lurker be a 'regular" if he never posted?

A regular lurker?

I've seen numerous posts from James B over the years.

Doug

"SRyckman" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : snipped-for-privacy@d12g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...

Well, after some consideration and several emails back and forth with some of you - there is now an industry only sub-forum at asa.nevets.net

Currently we will authenticate only people who can validate their email as being from the company domain name that matches their SIA (Security Industry Association) membership, CSAA (Central Station Alarm Association) membership or company BBB listing showing they are in the industry. This does NOT have to be the email address you use in your registration on the forum - you just have to be able to email us for validation purposes.

This may be expanded upon in the future, but for now that is how we are doing it. As this is a sub-forum, you still go to

you'll see the sub-forum "pinned" to the top of the topic list. See the message in the public group for instructions on how you do the validation.

Free/Non company email addresses like Gmail/Hotmail and so forth will not be permitted unless the EXACT email address is the one on the SIA/ CSAA/BBB listing.

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All this is very cute.. but have it comme to you that many here are not from the USA and dont have the same credential to show..

This is not realy a way to find real people from the trade. its a way to start a small boys club..

I am with Jim on this.. this sucks.

It's not what you said in the past, it's who you are - really. Industry Only means just that. No DIY'ers, no teenage neighborhood burglars, etc. And as has been said, who really knows who any of you really are?

As stated, it has to be an email address from the same company domain name. So if snipped-for-privacy@xyzalarm.com is listed then snipped-for-privacy@xyzalarm.com would be allowed. If snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com is listed in the company listing then ONLY snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com would be allowed (not other gmail accts, etc)

I think OT discussion has it's place and in the open forum will be very loose in that regard as long as it appears useful to the group. Anyone that has dealt with me personally before will tell you that I don't give a damn whether people like me or not.... I'll always do what I think is best based on the situation. My intention is not to alienate people, but some of that comes with the territory.

Posts are not being approved - it's near real time (just like here) - those that violate the rules are just subject to deletion.

Enough said on this topic... either people validate to get in the Industry Only forum or they don't. It's their choice. Of course they can always just stay here as well.

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And if the guys is not working for an alarm company anymore, but for a Union that is providing service for more then 60% of all tech's in a province. he cant join?

"You're scratching your head??????????

OK ..... let me spell it out for you.

By saying that you believe everyone should be validated, you're saying that everyone should reveal who they really are and where they work. Yet you stayed "lurking" and didn't expose yourself to Robert Bass' tactics.

When I first came to ASA, I had this somewhat naive idea that this was going to be a really great place to find good information a give advice ( if I could) to others. However naive those thoughts might have been, I was still cautious enough to use an exclusvie E-mail address and pseudonym. As it turned out it was a good thing I did that. After trying reeeely hard to not get into the obvious frey that Robert Bass (instigator extraordinary) constantly propagated here, pesonal attacts left me no choice but to either defend myself or leave the group. Not being one to back down to a bully, I stayed and fought the gallent battle. However, in view of his past history in other groups and some of the things he did and tried to do to other people in ASA, it's a damn good thing I had protected myself.

As vehemently as I battled with Robert Bass, I never resorted to doing anything that would delve into his personal life. He had no such self imposed restrictions on himself, however. Try as he may and he did try .... he was not able to interfere with my personal life. Records show that he had done some pretty nasty things to people in other groups he was involved with .... contacting their employers and others, telling lies about their drinking habits to flying regulators and such. The records also show that he repeatedly probed into the personal lives of the participants of ASA .... where he could.

Now YOU say that it's ok to reveal who I am and the name of my company, which certainly can lead to where I live and personal information about me, leaving myself open to the NEXT asshole who feels they want to "get even" for any kind of real of manufactured greivence they may have against me. So Steve says that I only have to reveal who I am to him and it will be "erased" .......... I object to doing that and Steve Rykman holds no sacrosanct exception that says that HE can't do the same thing to me or anyone he choose to .... for some real or concocted reason that he may justify in the future. There is absolutely nothing from stopping him from revealing my identity here, there ..... or in any group or place, ..... attached to whatever real or fabricated trangressions he chooses. It's obviously been done before and it'll happen again, regardless of WHAT the self professed "righteous" person says now.

GET IT?

I don't think that Steve is wrong in wanting people to be verified to be included in a "dealers" group. It's the sensible thing to do. However, if ...... and I do really mean "if" he's actually been watching and "lurking" in ASA for all these years, there's no way that he can't know that certain people of the present participants of ASA are NOT dealers or installers or intricately involved in this industry. If he chooses to be hard nosed about the revealing of identities, so be it. It's "his" group. On the other hand, he's wrong about one thing. He says it will be MY loss not being included. The people who come into this industry today are not well equipped to last. They're not "fighters". No stomach for holding the line, planning ahead and lasting for the duration. They give up and run at the first sign of hardship and competition. I'd daresay that with my

42 years in this industry, and the fact that I've been successfully runing my own bussiness for more years then most of the people in ASA have been in this industry, that the loss is not mine.

Now that things in ASA are more of what I would call "normal" Steve has come out of the bushes and is taking advantage of all the events that took place here and is now trying to make it an "ideal" place. Quite a noble quest.

However, I stayed in ASA, fought the fight and for whatever reason ..... survived. Steve gave up, ran and hid.

You tell me (like me or not) who would you like on your side.

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That's two strikes against you, Pete. You're in the union and you're from Quebec! :-)

Easy, just like I did. Read and respond directly instead of to the group.

Even if he never replied to anyone, if he's reading the group on a regular basis, he's a regular. If you go to the same coffee house every day for two years through the drive through, you are still a "regular" even though you haven't set foot in the building.

Then suggest an alternative that will actually work and I'll listen. So far none of the suggestions can be implemented. Without proper verification it doesn't play out. I refused a long term customer of our company today because they didn't give one or more of the authentication methods. I know they've been in the industry for more than twenty years, but if i let it go for one then the security of the forum is gone.

To all 3% that use a real email addy?

okay..

And you didn't pony-up for a bullshit SIA membership.

I told you a good one already. Invite a few people who passed your test to invite other's they trust. If a nominee gets 'x' number of nods, he's verified. Many of us have met in person, called on the phone, and have active business relationships.

State licensing databases and municipal D.B.A's are public, as are offices of each S.O.S.

That still does not help retirees, installers with no company email addy, non-alarmco and C/S owners (but still doing their thing).

On LinkIn, I have 6 connections to people I've met here. I'm also subscribed to the SIA forum on LinkedIn (ironic?). They had a verification process of some sort too, but I managed to get invited 2 days after my application. I guess the SIA rep. doesn't think I'm a teenage script-kiddie.

Half my contacts are alarmco owners or managers. Some are headhunters for our industry, some are parts suppliers. The rest are IT partners.

BTW.... I am/was perfectly willing to provide my company in the BBB index, and I found it wasn't even listed. I put in a request for a rating for the hell of it. I'll probably buy one of their 'accreditations' too, that will most *certainly* get me into -any- forum.

I think you just did.

Nope, in order for it to be verified the forum has to vett each candidate. Once you start letting other people let their friends in, you loose any ability to say that everyone is from the industry.

The only reason "past members" was included in the description is because there is not a mechanism to recheck everyone to see if they are still active in the industry. Unless we keep credentials on file there is no way to do that unless we wipe everyone out at the beginning of each year and make them resubmit, etc...

DBA doesn't validate anything. We have a couple DBA's to protect product names.... it's just some paperwork.

I will accept licensing database links though as long as it's at a state level or higher (for other countries). I'll update the notes regarding this. I will NOT accept copies of the license, etc.. though - it has to link to the government website showing the license holder with the same rules pertaining to email addresses.