Glass break sensors: FG1608 vs Shatterpoint 5620?

I still use Caddx 2000/21000. Few issues.

prior to ademco buying c&k, we used the fg730, have about 30 in the field, no false alarms. these are the predecessor to the 1608. they operate as follows: (acoustic only): high freq circuit off. low frequency circuit on, looking for "sound" (vibrations) below 100 hz. Upon "hearing" "sound" below 100 hz, the high frequency circuit is turned on, and if a high frequency sound is heard within less than 3 seconds, an alarm is generated.

The low frequency sound is the window being struck. The high frequency sound is the breaking of the glass.

pssst: breaking glass makes a sound like tssst. the tinkle sound is when pieces of glass hit the pieces.

the fg730 was so successful that they put off taking it off the market after they came out with the microprocessor model until sales subsided.

John American Sentry

another item. as much as the caddx looked good (3 frequency ranges), and the fact that I use their controls, I have always been uncomfortable with the requirement that, in order to test, you must put the sensor in the "test mode".

Whatever happened to explaining to the customer that to test his glass break sensor, he just smashes his storefront window with a hammer while watching the little red light on the glass break detector?

Which is the precise reason that I avoid Glassbreak Detectors all together. Generally I explain it to the customer like this.

I can install glassbreak detectors. However, testing becomes the trick. I can test it with the "glassbreak simulator" the mfg. provides or I can throw a brick through your window and see if it works. I do not pay for repairs. What is your pleasure??

The response has been 99.8% against glassbreak detectors. The .2% that have gone with the glassbreaks were convinced by someone else that it is the way to go or they had some really bad experience with motion detectors that were improperly installed.

In my early days, I have had experience with Love Birds in a pet store tripping off the glassbreaks as well as 2 cat's having fun and tipped over a stack of brass coasters on an end table that spilled on to a leather couch causing the false alarm.

I rest my case.

Les

d about false alarms, as its close to the kitchen. FG1608 seems mostly an acoustic detector but also detects low frequencies. Shatterpoint has a shoc k sensor, has to be mounted directly on the frame.

bust to false alarms?

ies better than Shatterpro?

Every manufacturer has it's features that is different from the "other" man ufacturer. I've not heard of any one device that is better than all the oth ers.

I typically use audio glass break detectors mostly in commercial jobs. I us e them in situations that when someone is there, the system is off and when they are closed, nothing is going on that would cause a false alarm.

Residential is another story. There are too many variables to contend with. They might work in some cases, but mostly too many things are out of the u sers control or they eventually forget about their existence and don't conn ect events that can happen with the possibility of setting off the glass br eak detectors. Like getting one of those little high pitched squeaking bark ing dogs that will bounce off the door when they hear something. Or home th eater noises or .... or .... or ..... etc. The one advantage they do have i n residential is that the entire system can be armed when they are home and it's ok to have pets roaming around when no one is home but still have ful l detection. No motion detectors that never get used or to worry about. And no "pet immune" motion detectors that may or may not work. Cats are evil.

The not being able to test them is definitely a worrisome thing ..... howev er. The same goes for shock sensors that are applied directly to the glass. Nobody ever tests them once they're installed.

Window foil is still the best kind of glass break detection. When it's work ing you know it. When it's not .... you know it. Maintenance is a bear th ough.

Thanks for the ideas. When I was playing with ShatterPro sometime ago, I fo und a Youtube video of glass breaking and if I played it loud enough, it wo uld trip it pretty consistently. Of course my small children screaming woul d also trip it sometimes. They also would trip a glass-mounted shock sensor by tapping on the glass. So, that's why I am thinking of using Shatterpoin t 5600, it would require both a loud sound and a vibration coming from the window.

Check out this video testing FG730 sensor

Seems like its pretty easy to set it off. Would be interesting to test several sensors against one another.

Dropping a glass is not going to set off that kind of glass break detector. It's obviously an end user who doesn't know diddly about security systems.

No, he is showing how easy to set it off as a false alarm with jiggling keys and some thumping.

In general, security systems are decades out of date in their technology, because there are not enough DIYs and independent tests and reviews.

eys and some thumping.

because there are not enough DIYs and independent tests and reviews.

Glass break detectors (most) are designed to listen for a "thump" and then if he frequency of breaking glass occurs within a specified period of time ... the unit will trip.

Once the unit has tripped this unit apparently does not need the "thump" ag ain to trip if it hears more high frequency. If he would wait some period o f time after the initial "thump" and jangling of the keys causing the unit to trip, the unit should reset to normal and again require the "thump" prio r to "hearing" the high frequency.

ALSO, jangling the keys an inch away from the unit is not real life conditi ons.

For instance, if you trip a typical motion detector, after it has been dorm ant for a period of time it will usually take a longer period of time to tr ip it the first time but a shorter period of time once it's been initially tripped. That is ...... if you walk into the protected area again, you wil l be caught sooner ..... then it took the first time.

It's called quiescence.

Likewise, you don't test a motion detector by walking past it 6 inches away .

Well, to get back to the original topic, I got a 5620 Shatterpoint sensor i nstalled. The shock sensitivity is quite poor. I have to wack the frame wit hin a few inches of the sensor, otherwise it doesn't respond to the shock. Not sure if I got somehow a defective unit off e-bay, but it appeared new.

The shock sensor is a little piezo sounder, which seems fine. There is no s ensitivity adjustment, as far I can tell it goes into a PIC microprocessor without any amplification.

If anyone has these units, how sensitive do they supposed to be to shock?

I would suggest you get a copy of the manual. if the device is ul listed, the documentation is part of the listing. you should be able to determine what to expect from this device by studying and trying out the test procedure and reviewing the installation requirements and limitations.

John

Well, to get back to the original topic, I got a 5620 Shatterpoint sensor installed. The shock sensitivity is quite poor. I have to wack the frame within a few inches of the sensor, otherwise it doesn't respond to the shock. Not sure if I got somehow a defective unit off e-bay, but it appeared new.

The shock sensor is a little piezo sounder, which seems fine. There is no sensitivity adjustment, as far I can tell it goes into a PIC microprocessor without any amplification.

If anyone has these units, how sensitive do they supposed to be to shock?

Many of the piezo style shock sensors are very dependent on the type of mounting use to secure them to the frame / glass... Some in the past have required them to be glued directly to the surface.. I've seen some mounted with double stick tape , which defeats the design of the sensor.. (ie... no alarm trigger) Also have seen some mounted on wired glass, which is also a no-no...

RTS

Of course I followed the installation manual, used screws to attach it to t he wooden frame. My actual windows are vinyl, which may be a problem in its elf, its not very rigid. When these sensors were developed, vinyl windows p robably were not as common as they are now. But like I said, even if I whac k on the same piece of wood the sensor is attached to, it only works within a few inches.

installed. The shock sensitivity is quite poor. I have to wack the frame w ithin a few inches of the sensor, otherwise it doesn't respond to the shock . Not sure if I got somehow a defective unit off e-bay, but it appeared new .

sensitivity adjustment, as far I can tell it goes into a PIC microprocesso r without any amplification.

I'm not familiar with the particular unit you have but from your above desc ription it seems as if you are expecting the unit to respond to the shock . ... alone.

Typically a glass break detector should be mounted firmly to a wall or ceil ing at a distance no further than the instructions recommend. I always inst all them well within the recommended distance. Installed in direct line of sight of the glass. Not near air ducts. Rooms that are "soft" are going to limit the sensitivity. Rooms that are hard are going to enhance sensitivity . Windows with blinds, curtains or drapes will be less likely to trip the s ensor. When the shock occurs the unit will not go into alarm. When the shoc k is followed by the sound of breaking glass, it should trip.

Testing them is somewhat an act of faith. Manufacturers will have a recomme nded audio tester available to purchase which you are supposed to believe w ill test the unit appropriately as an actual breaking of the window. I use the tester but hardly believe it is a true test. Years ago, when audio glas s break detectors were new to the industry, one manufacturer (I forget who) would send a rock with the detector tagged with a note "Glass break tester "

You might want to break up some glass, put the pieces in a larger sealed gl ass jar and then hit the wall and shake the glass jar. I used to do that be fore the manufacturers came out with testers. YMMV. As the sensors became m ore advanced that method didn't work as well.

It has a test mode where it is supposed to give two long LED flashes just from shock. That is what I am testing, as the manual says.

Ahhh! As I said, I'm not familiar with that unit but from what you are observing I'd say the unit would be faulty.

I got an op-amp amplifier on E-bay for $1 and wired it up to amplify the pi ezo buzzer used as shock sensor by a factor of 100. This works pretty well, the shock sensitivity is now adequate and the false alarm immunity is quit e good. So the idea of the 5620 is good, they just tried to save a buck by skipping the input amplifier.