Foiling ??

Foiling is pretty much gone except for a few individuals who do it. mainly for existing customers who have foil and want to keep it. Some times its just for the appearance its not hooked up any more and there using a different technology to detect glass breakage.

UL yes these systems still exist where required by insurer such as jewelry, pawn shops stores banks etc. where insurance will only be provided if a UL system is maintained.

I just did some foil for a special application. Its easy enough to do, but doing it neatly is a big pain. I imagine it takes a lot of practice. Practice I don't have.

I did not use lead though. I used aluminum and then lacquered over all my connections to prevent oxidization.

I still do foil if the job already has it, but I'm from that "old school" who did hundreds of windows with foil when there was no other way to detect glass breakage. I've got jobs where the foil has been on for 25 / 30 years. It needs an occasional touch up but I usually do that when I go for a service call. I'm surprised that I don't get more calls for repairs from window washer damage, since I'm sure that many of them don't even know what the foil is or how it can be damaged. All the jobs I have left are commercial/retail shops. Years ago, when I heard that Brooklyn Foil was going out of business, I bought about a dozen rolls of regular foil and a few UL rolls. I put them in plastic bags in my freezer with a couple of hundred foil blocks. I've got about 10 rolls left. Figure I can will them to a museum some day.

As far as UL jobs, I don't do any, anymore, but nowdays I'm sure there are other types of glass break detectors that are listed for those jobs.

Except for the maintinence of foil, in my opinion, if it's applied properly, it still provides the best detection of glass breakage.

I used to foil basement windows on residential jobs for years. Once I got the hang of it I liked doing it.

I don't know how reliable the aluminum stuff is. Someone here (I think) once said the stuff is too strong -- might just hang off the glass instead of breaking. Since I haven't tried the aluminum, I'm not sure if that's true. You might want to test it out on a piece of scrap glass to be sure before using it again.

Could be, but it will be fine for this application. I did get to learn how to repair it already. LOL.

What connections?

The foil is connected to the wiring using "foil blocks" which are little squares with screws and plates on top and adhesive on the back. The usual technique is to make a tiny "Z" fold for expansion, run the foil up over the top of the block and fold it back again, then secure it with the plate and screw. Finally the wiring is attached to the screw. Not everyone uses the little "Z" fold first, but we found that if the block comes loose it's not as likely to break the foil when there's an extra 1/4" of foil there.

Back then, the double stick tape was of poor quality. I would remove it and use a 3M double stick tape that was basically good for life. I liked the smaller Ademco blocks. The Amseco model were fine as is, but they were rather large for its function.

Jim Rojas

I was looking for a more definitive article on foiling for the benefit of the OP and came across a site that sells foil and supplies. It appears the stuff they sell is probably aluminum. I know nothing about this company so due diligence, but here's the link:

Remember those "automatic" foil applicators that came out umpteen years ago? The things were supposed to save lots of time while making anyone an expert at foiling. I tried one and the results were not as straight as I could do using a matchbook or playing card.

Yes...Master Foiler I think it was called. I never bought one. I never used that thin foil either.

Jim Rojas

Yes, that was it. The foil was the same thickness but very narrow in order to allow curved corners, etc. You saved some wasted dollars not buying one.

I remember now...it was called Foilmaster.

Jim Rojas

everyone uses the

I know this is going to sound like one of those stories about having to walk 5 miles to school, up hill both ways but ..... when I first started, we didn't even know what that kind of foil block was. Our foil blocks had solder tabs on them and we soldered the tabs on to the foil. Let me tell you about a lost art. Try soldering a piece of foil with almost the same consistancy as the solder, to a brass tab. We used to use the old Unger soldering irons with the ceramic screw-in elements. 23 =EF=BF=BD watts.

Somewhere around I have an old Weller 15 watt for doing micro d-sub connectors.

For the first coat, I used a box (formerly containing Ademco # 39's or

39-2's), placing it against the window frame, and with varnish on the brush, and the brush handle pressed against the side of the box, slid both the box and brush, in unison, down the frame. When applying the the foil I used a rubber suction cup to hold the foil on the opposite side of the window. The original use of the suction cup was to hold a styrofoam "head" for mounting a woman's wig.

I still have the heavily coated box in my foil box, a box I have not opened for many years. The varnish is probably highly congealed.

WHen repar>"Jim Rojas" wrote:

Didn't you have the Ademco foil splicing tool? ( the pizza cutter)

Did you carry a fan with you to remove the condensation from the single pane storefront windows?

That's basically the same thing we did, except we would use a playing card or a matchbook, depending on which was available. However, I used to make a mark on the glass with a light colored crayon before applying the varnish. This gave me a nice, straight line to follow with the foil. Once the foil was in place the mark was all but invisible.

That's creative. I used to simply stretch a bit of foil and smooth it into the sticky track made by the first coat of varnish (aka foil protector). Once started, the foil would stay put as I smoothed it along the line.

More creative ideas -- nice. I never heard of Silver-Print before. What is it's primary use?

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RHC: Thanks guys....keep it up....compared to you guys, I'm starting to actually feel like a youngster again.....:))

Foil ? Whats that....? Oh I know, it's what my wife calls me when she gets mad...."listen you old fool"...