Firelite Power problems

Ok, We had a small hurricane come through recently (Rita, you may have heard about it, it was in ALL the papers), and we have had about half a dozen panels that need to be replaced, because the battery charging circuit is blown. It doesn't see the batteries, can't recharge the batteries, and if the AC fails, can't use the batteries. ALL were Firelite (one 5210, the rest 5024's). I'm thinking there was some power surge either before the lights went out, or when they came back on. Anyone had the same problem with these panels? A power surge messing up the battery circuits? Granted, there are some that survived (I'm sure), but having this many panels pop, all the same maker, makes me wonder. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks Michael

Have you contacted Firelite? A recall may be in order.

Up in New England we referred to FireLite as "Fire Lightning". What you're stating is not uncommon. I've logged a few thousand hours replacing FireLite panels. At least they weren't the older Sensiscan 2000 panels...

I think FireLite may find itself not on my shopping list anymore.

Have you called or e-mailed Firelite, and what was their response.

Did they soumd like they were trying to help or they were trying to blame problems on something else?

To add to the rant on Firelite: Had a 5024 installed by another Dealer about 4 years ago- then Nassau County Fire Marshal wants 24Hr test and Central Staion on a Residential Group Home! Obliged by Installing a 411 dialer. Alls well till beginning of last month- getting "Zone 2 Tbl- 1 sec on then a restore intermittently- "oh its the Dialer" "oh its the Phone Lines", this that and the other thing! After Tightening all connection, testing the DACT, replacing the Batteries, checking ALL Eol's, and connections I then start getting "Phone 1 Tbls" intermingled with the Phantom Zn 2 Tbl- After service call #3 - YES,---- There is crosstalk and hum on Phone 1 AND Their FAx line is shorting with Panel Phone 1----BUT WAIT! As I am PHYSICALLY standing in front of the Panel and looking directly at it- I hear the sonalert beep twice and I WATCH the Panel TBL Light Blink on/off, on /off then Simultaneously the Panel "Power" TBL lite comes on with the Generic TBL lite, both blink twice then stop! Sounds to me from the thread that the Panel Power/Charging CKT is the Problem!!!!! Replace Main Board (not me- the original dealer) guess what- NO MORE PROBLEM. Which is why I INSIST ON INSTALLING SILENT KNIGHT! Mike S

Bob La L>

Firelite in general, I've notice that the charger ckt is always set right on the edge of fail detection. I reset the output level right out of the box to a slightly higher voltage. (as recommended from a service tech from firelite, about 8 years ago) to date (knock on wood) I haven't had any more problems with firelite power supplies. As for the dialers (whatever panel your using) I've noticed a LOT of bad solder connections on the telephone line sockets.. I've had to resolder several to stop intermittant line failure signals. (it seems if you send it back to firelite they never see the problem) I've been using Firelite products for going on 18 years with only the above problems.. all in all I like the product. But thats just me.. RTS

We've had very few problems with FireLite as well. I had one Notifier AFP-200 "go south". Sucker latched into permanent "ground fault". Service calls involving Edwards stuff (including EST-2 and EST-3 panels) are a royal pain though... *and* expensive.

Reset charger ckt output first look for a small trim pot next to the battery connection region on the PCB, it should have a small dope of paint on the center, place your vom on the battery feeds and slowly adjust the trim pot up or down to adjust the trickle voltage to the battery, if no change you got the wrong trim pot.. look for another one.. If your panel is 24VDC and the trickle is 25-26vdc it should be ok but if

24-25vdc you might need to trim upwards a little. If you had a power browie and the supply dropped below 110vac the panel might give a false signal .. The one problem i had that drove me nuts was at a resthome which had weak AC supply, each time the Central Air/Heat kicked on the line voltage dropped to 101ac which in turn dropped the panel to 22vdc which also tripped a false signal to the monitor, I boosted the trickle voltage and its never happened again.. RTS

Thanks Rocky, Noted that in the Install Manual 17-19VDC was within the "normal" Range! What's up with that? OF COURSE...... What did I get when I Checked THAT particular PANEL? HMMMMM...... 19VDC! Will try the reset trick on it! Mike S

Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq. wrote:

17-19vdc for a 24vdc panel? I think I'd give the tech an email and ask for a detailed explanation for that voltage reading.. tks, RTS

Check page 48 of the MS 4424 Installation Manual: Table 4 Troubleshooting: "Power Touble LED ON"; "Battery Trouble/Battery LED ON"; "Remove Batteries, "Check Voltage across charger output (17-19V!)" "Otherwise replace circuit board"! Mike S

Rocky_T_Squirrel, Esq. wrote:

Sorry Mike, my book must be too old. MS-4424 doc # 15153 ECN-95-067 This book specs. Maximum charging circuit 27.6v 1.5amp

the book for MS-4424B doc # 15125 ECN 95-354 specs. maximum charging circuit 27.6v 1.5 amp

the logic seem reasonable to me if your using 24 volt battery load a charging level of 25-27vdc would keep the bats charged but not boil out the gel. yet still high enough to recharge after a drain within the 24-36 hour limit..

RTS

Most of the panels we work with show a reasonable charging voltage when the battery is disconnected, but not all panels do. As I understand it, that's because a battery looks like a capacitor to the charging circuit. So, when the battery is removed, the charging circuit gets confused and does not put out the 13.8 or so volts we expect for a 12 volt battery, or the 27.6 or so we expect for a 24 volt battery.

I think what FireLite is giving you is the reading you can expect to see on your meter with a healthy charging circuit and no battery connected. If you happen to have a 10,000 microfarad capacitor around :-) and put it across the battery leads, I think you'll see a more reasonable charging voltage. I'm not defending FireLite, but I think this is what's going on. In real life, connect some new batteries and monitor the charging voltage with your DVM. If it's 24 volts and increasing, it's probably okay. If it stays the same or drops, the charger is bad. Of course, put it under load as well.

- badenov