Fire Alarms Certification

It depends on your state. Some require you to be factory authorized to install, service and repair certain high end systems. Even a doctor or lawyer has to be selective on his specialty, or board certified...just being an MD, PHD or a recent grad from Harvard Law doesn't cut it in today's world.

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If one is licensed in Texas, they can work on any FACP legally. The issue with manufacturer certs. comes in on individual jobs, where the customer has specified the equipment. It applies with security too, for example many moons ago; I helped install cctv/access control at the new Federal Reserve Bank in Houston. The customer (feds in this case), required at least one factory trained Lennell and one Pelco certified tech to always be on-site.

tion was made in that spirit,"

orld Trade Center site.

We have a specific job that has an old notifier fire alarm panel. The panel is zoned and not addressable. They are adding on to the building and we have been asked to add about 5 smoke detectors to the system. The additions were designed by an engineer but he has sugested we cannot do the work because we dont have a certified Notifier tech on our staff. The 5 smokes that need to be added have been spec'd as system sensor, and so are the horn strobes. The panel has 1 unused zone that will handle up to 25 of these paticular smokes.

Our customer is the end user, and they prefer us to do the work. We will still do the work, and just sub out our local Notifier dealer to inspect it. It just seems silly that we cant add 5 smokes to an existing system.

James B

was made in that spirit,"

Trade Center site.

With tongue firmly planted in your cheek, you should "suggest" to the engineer that if he's designing an addition to a Notifier system that he should be "Notifier Certified" as well.

Seriously. This is a conventional panel. Certification by the manufacturer for conventional panels isn't even available. "Certification training" involves learning the programming software on their addressable stuff and that's about it.

Potter tried pulling the same shit here. They "suggested" that the only individuals capable of commissioning, installing, servicing, testing, programming, and verifying (Canadian term) the Potter PFC-9000 has to have received the "face-to-face" factory training. Patently ridiculous when you consider what the supposed "factory trained" technicians passed for properly installed fire alarm panels on four jobs that I know of. One of them is featured at:

Another involving a Notifier panel is at: Enjoy!

That's bullshit. There is no requirement for that, unless the AHJ has something against it.

Just do it, as long as the detectors are compatible and the engineers power specs are met.

I got a Fire-Lite factory certificate, it was a 2 day sales pitch.

Same here. It also seemed to focus on the MS-9050, didn't even go into the use of the downloading software, and didn't provide much in the way of actual programming instruction (it covered the basics but not the more complex correlations and on-board communicator set-up, which I was expecting). It was disappointing. I didn't really learn anything "new" or what I hadn't already discovered on my own. Earl Muise is also no longer with Honeywell.

Over the years I've learned to program Edwards, Simplex, Notifier, Potter, Mircom, and FireLite panels. The new Mircom stuff (FX-350) is nice. I've been involved in programming and commissioning three now. It goes head-to-head with Potter and FireLite and actually beats them out in a few key areas. The main drawback with Potter's PFC-9000 is that they don't have a ULC Listed interface module for conventional smokes, the remote NAC module won't do Class "A", and there isn't an outdoor enclosure for the remote annunciator. The main problem with FireLite (in Canada particularly) is that they don't have an annunciator you can mount remote from the panel. For some reason you have to install it in the same room as the panel, and the maximum length of conduit allowed between the panel and the annunciator is 12 feet. Their current annunciator looks really hokey when you have to stack it as well (which is pretty well a given for most installations).

Firelite is the parent company of notifier know one panel you know the other.

According to Acme (a Notifier distributor and the recent recipient of a Burning Brick), this is not the case. They would have you believe that only "Notifier Certified" techs are allowed to work/program/verify a Notifier panel. Balderdash.

Certified till owner of equipment throws there sorry ass off property for poor workmanship. seen plenty of that here.

I have not touched a FACP in years. The Fire-Lite academy focused on their first addressable panel (the MS-9200), I think that was their first addressable one. All they did was talk about how great it was, but I was in the middle of an installation (our first company-installed addressable) and really could have used some guidance. It was more geared towards sales folks and/or architects, than the technician.

I did most of that job myself, and no one else at our company knew how the damned thing worked. I just studied the manual for 2 weeks before it was time to power-up. Everything went without a hitch the first time around on auto-programming of devices. One of my air handlers would not shut down on alarm though. Who knew I was supposed to wrap tape around the 110V terminals before putting the relay modules in a 4X4 box? It certainly was not in the manual, and no one told me @ F.L. of course.

Live and learn I guess. My boss wasn't even mad at me, it was my first time running a big job and had non-conventional parts ( in 1994 they were still a little 'mysterious'). I think he returned it for credit, even though I let the blue-smoke from the inner's come out.

I wish they would stop packaging every electronic board with the blue smoke. It seems like every time I let just a "little" smoke out, it don't want to work no more! They should at least put more smoke in there so you don't lose it "all" when you have a 110v dead-short to the module and AHU conduit. (we use metal boxes in the US, so they have a path to ground). I would have been better off telling the electrician to install PVC 4 squares, and just ground it with a strap! Lol.... sorry, couldn't resist.

tion was made in that spirit,"

orld Trade Center site.

I had an ass hole HVAC guy wire 240 side of transformer into the control side i was suppose to use lucky i was not killed. He was specifically told to wire in on 24 vac side needless to say contractor no longer uses him. and I do all my own wiring on HVAC both sides.

Exactly, you just have to have a buddy who's company is a dealer and buy Notifier parts though him.

The FL MS-9200 is very similar to the Notifier panel of the same class. Right after the commissioning was done at the college where the 9200 was installed, my very next assignment was at a juvenile detention facility. I had to add on detection to a new wing they built. That panel, the model # escapes me now; was almost identical in the programming.

I had to call Notifier's tech-support one time during the job. My boss gave me an 'alias' and phone number to use when I called. (He knew the Notifier dealer as a friend), so his buddy didn't mind one or two calls were placed using his name and #. I was asked not to disclose the location of the installation (by my boss), and sure-enough they did ask. I wonder why they care? I think I gave 'a' physical address to the support-tech, but used our one and only (serious) competitor's address. Heh, heh, heh...

My boss worked with his competitor for years before starting his own company. So they had a lot of bad-blood feudin' and fussin' on a regular basis.

I just naturally picked my employer's side in the mess, he was writing my checks. And I knew my pal Bill always had my ass, so there was never even a question he'd lose me to them.

Besides, this other dude has a very bad reputation for speaking to his customers with no compulsion of sense of responsibility to service it

As well, he also treated his employees like crap. We stole some of his tech's because of that. They were his discarded but well-trained "refugee" technicians who couldn't deal with John anymore. I heard many bad stories about him, from a lot of people. I had a few building engineers tell me he wasn't allowed on their site anymore, just because of his attitude and lack of prompt service.

I saw him a few times, but I'd never been formally introduced, so he didn't even know who I was. I worked for the same company 2 times, the date I got on first was Q1-'94 or maybe even '93. It was really just me, Bill, and another long-time friend of Bill's that were capable of understanding the logic. I can't tell you how many resistors I've had to remove from the EOL on ends of digital SLC's. When I asked if I could come back to Wack-o for my job back in 2002, he said ***PLEASE*** when can you be here? He had grown the business so quickly in the decade, when I came back there were about a dozen tech's (most of which were not comfortable servicing a digital system). This was like 'voodoo' to them. I had been using addressable -security- products well before I came back to Waco during that 9 years.

I was always a little pissed off (when I returned), that I was getting paid close to what some wire-pullers were making because of an informal 'length of service" rule, Bill used 'selectively'. After your first 6-9 months he would usually throw an extra dollar or two onto your hourly rate. If a year passes, and they didn't see a raise the whole year it meant you were 'disposable'

I know this is turning into an RCH inspired essay, but since I left the second time (only after a year) I realized he was not in a position to be buddy-buddy like it was before. I was treated just about like all the other employees. I was allowed to drive the company vehicle home everyday, he amde everyone else drive-in on their petrol. We knew each other so well I knew he was just making his authority felt by his minions, to stay credible and keep them on edge.

I would react that bravado display in the (his) shop and bite my lip (as I would certainly not be helping the other tech or myself) if I got Bill even more livid than he was. Once I got him alone at lunch or something, I'd call him a d*****ad for something if I felt was 'dickish' he did to another tech. I'd certainly call him on it. He had morphed from a generally calm and steady emotional state to a guy that was consumed by his business and had little free time.

When I saw the difference 9 years of 'success' had done to his stress level, I was amazed. Not enough to feel sorry for him, but just to see his personal transformation of a 8 man shop to a 25+ one made him different. Not, arrogant or more cocky than he already was when I knew the 'old' Bill But now (well, since 2002) is was just stressed so much, it makes me wonder if any amount of income is worth it. In fact, I need to call and see how he's doing. It's been 2-3 years since we spoke.

But, eventually the futility of trying to get him to "chill-out a little" sunk in. He passed the point of no return where he/we/me couldn't have the relaxed rules and comradely were shared as a small group. It's now an operation that has to be run professionally -in- the office too. The shop was sort of a 'sanctuary the first time I was there. We a had a Coke/beer-fridge, satellite TV, Bill would pick up the 6 string and always play and sing the same song...

"There is. A house, in New Orleans.... ....They caaaaall.......... "The Rising Sun"

and go back to some weared on me so much I quit again. I never even liked being in that geographioc area of TX. (both times)

I think the issue would be if Notifier specify in their installation manuals that their products must be installed by a certified tech, if so then any system not installed by a certified tech would technically not be code compliant since the manufacturer's installation instructions were not followed.

I don't know if Notifier state that in their manuals or not, but they do state in their limited warranty statements that the warranty is void if the product is altered, repaired or serviced by anyone other than Notifier or its authorized distributors.

Doug