DSC 1404 zone doubling

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Anyone have an idea how to wire for zone doubling at the new DSC 1404 (4-8 zone)
panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the only way to wire?
Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that! I mean its
completely useless....

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Thursday, April 25, 2013 2:27:24 PM UTC-4, spyros wrote:
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8 zone) panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the only  
way to wire? Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that! I
 mean its completely useless....

Zone doubling has been around for quite a long time. I have never met one p
erson that has ever used it. It's not hard to hook up .... you just have to
  use two different EOL resistors. But labling wires and zones has got to b
e pretty detailed to keep the zones organized.

I don't  use it because I think that if there were ever a problem that trou
ble shooting could be difficult and time consuming. When doing an estimate  
for a job I just include zone expanders in the price and wire individual zo
nes which keeps things pretty simple.

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On 4/26/2013 12:34 AM, Jim wrote:
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zone) panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the only way to
wire? Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that! I mean its
completely useless....
Quoted text here. Click to load it
person that has ever used it. It's not hard to hook up .... you just have to
use two different EOL resistors. But labling wires and zones has got to be
pretty detailed to keep the zones organized.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
shooting could be difficult and time consuming. When doing an estimate for a job
I just include zone expanders in the price and wire individual zones which keeps
things pretty simple.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I've never done DSC zone doubling but have used the Ademco several times.

Basically you have two circuits in parallel - it doesn't work with  
normally open type devices.

A short on one wire will show up on both zones so to troubleshoot I  
simply meter both wires tied to the zone terminals.  As has been  
mentioned - very good idea to mark the wires clearly, but that has  
always been how I try to mark them.

I've been using zone doubling since Ademco came out with it and have  
only had to troubleshoot two sets of zone doubled points and these were  
on the same system and water getting into the walls was the issue both  
times - so this house has more issues than a skippy alarm...

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
?? ???????, 28 ??
????? 2013 9:24:03 ?.?. UTC+3, ?
 ??????? JoeRaisin ???
??:
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(4-8 zone) panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the on
ly way to wire? Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that
! I mean its completely useless....
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ne person that has ever used it. It's not hard to hook up .... you just hav
e to  use two different EOL resistors. But labling wires and zones has got  
to be pretty detailed to keep the zones organized.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
trouble shooting could be difficult and time consuming. When doing an estim
ate for a job I just include zone expanders in the price and wire individua
l zones which keeps things pretty simple.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
  
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I dont prefer zone doubling at all, cause when you have long wires sometime
s the wire resistor change the zone doubling loop resistor and problems cam
e up. sometimes you get alarm from i.e. z3 and simoultaneously opens also z
7 (the doubled zone) and you get confused. I mention about DSC 1404 zone do
ubling cause my main concern in this type of zone doubling is that it is co
mplicated a lot. Most of the systems just have to use 2 different values of
 resistor. In 1404 you use 3 different values and 4 resistors in one loop!  
How they believe in DSC that an installer will trust such a complicated 4 z
one (small) system?

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Thursday, April 25, 2013 2:27:24 PM UTC-4, spyros wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
8 zone) panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the only  
way to wire? Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that! I
 mean its completely useless....

I have used zone doubling couple times  when I needed 10-12 zones  just nee
d to keep wires correct and well marked like jim said  for later trouble sh
ooting

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Thursday, April 25, 2013 1:27:24 PM UTC-5, spyros wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
8 zone) panel? Following the schematic diagram its ok but is this the only  
way to wire? Cause you have to be a "nuclear scient" in order to do that! I
 mean its completely useless....

I thought the same thing, you are better off using a 1616 instead, I can't  
understand why anyone would release a panel that didn't do wireless these d
ays

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Friday, April 26, 2013 7:12:07 PM UTC-7, mleuck wrote:
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t understand why anyone would release a panel that didn't do wireless these
 days


OK, I'm curious... why does this panel exist?  I had a quick look at DSC's  
site... http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=1399 ...and
 see nothing about it that makes me want to use one instead of a 1616 or an
 1832.

And if the new keypad is the selling feature, I don't want one of those eit
her... http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=Products&o=view&id=1400 ...it r
eminds me of the old (circa PC2550 or so?) keypads designed to be flush mou
nt into a single-gang electrical box.

I can't remember the last time I installed a system with 4 or less zones.  
I definitely haven't thought I really need fewer zones, codes, keypads, par
titions, events on the event buffer, and possibly zone/PGM types.  If anyon
e from DSC is lurking, please explain why I should use this panel rather th
an a 1616 or an 1832.  Is this going to be a $20 panel and you're just goin
g for a low price point?  If so, I'm still not buying it.

And remember, I prefer to use DSC panels.

- Chris

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 1:16:38 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
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he same thing, you are better off using a 1616 instead, I can't understand  
why anyone would release a panel that didn't do wireless these days OK, I'm
 curious... why does this panel exist? I had a quick look at DSC's site...  
http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=1399 ...and see not
hing about it that makes me want to use one instead of a 1616 or an 1832. A
nd if the new keypad is the selling feature, I don't want one of those eith
er... http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=Products&o=view&id=1400 ...it re
minds me of the old (circa PC2550 or so?) keypads designed to be flush moun
t into a single-gang electrical box. I can't remember the last time I insta
lled a system with 4 or less zones. I definitely haven't thought I really n
eed fewer zones, codes, keypads, partitions, events on the event buffer, an
d possibly zone/PGM types. If anyone from DSC is lurking, please explain wh
y I should use this panel rather than a 1616 or an 1832. Is this going to b
e a $20 panel and you're just going for a low price point? If so, I'm still
 not buying it. And remember, I prefer to use DSC panels. - Chris

I'm guessing most Mfg's have panels like this. It appeals to the "lickum st
ickum) companies. When you're installing 20 free panels a day, 20 bucks per
 panel means more. It's not about the security, benefits or features.

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
On Saturday, April 27, 2013 10:41:57 AM UTC-7, Jim wrote:
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stickum) companies. When you're installing 20 free panels a day, 20 bucks p
er panel means more. It's not about the security, benefits or features.


Then you're going to be needing wireless.  Like I always say about doorknoc
kers: they're not selling alarm systems, they're selling contracts.

I did a service call yesterday to re-install a bedroom window contact.  Of  
course, it had been installed by doorknockers less than a year ago.

They mounted the magnet to the frame with some sort of orange glue (usually
 they use clear silicone).  Screws, of course, are too difficult.  But then
 they mounted the contact to the glass itself with the same glue (there was
 a screen on the window and not enough room to do it any other way).  Being
 a south-facing window, it got hot and melted off.  So I installed a hardwi
red surface contact (with just enough room behind the screen), and wired it
 to the existing wireless contact (which is now on the wall above the windo
w).  Mounted everything with screws, as crazy as that concept may be.  The  
most difficult part of the whole service call was getting the backplate off
 of the rest of the contact as some glue had dripped into it.

Come to think of it, I'm surprised they don't use something like DSC's Alex
or more often.  Probably too expensive and technical, but it would be easie
r to wire than a Lynx Touch, SimonXT or 2gig.

- Chris

Re: DSC 1404 zone doubling
Quoted text here. Click to load it
site... http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=products&o=view&id=1399 ...and see
nothing about it that makes me want to use one instead of a 1616 or an 1832.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
either... http://www.dsc.com/index.php?n=Products&o=view&id=1400 ...it reminds
me of the old (circa PC2550 or so?) keypads designed to be flush mount into a
single-gang electrical box.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
definitely haven't thought I really need fewer zones, codes, keypads,
partitions, events on the event buffer, and possibly zone/PGM types.  If anyone
from DSC is lurking, please explain why I should use this panel rather than a
1616 or an 1832.  Is this going to be a $20 panel and you're just going for a
low price point?  If so, I'm still not buying it.
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Same here. I've been a dsc
user a long time. With all the advances
 coming out, why step backwards.?  
--  




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