DIY'er Questions - Any Help Appreciated

I am in the planning stages of installing my own home alarm system and have some questions I am hoping some of the professionals in this group can help me with.

  1. An alarm technician my company does business with spoke highly of Ademco. From reading this group I know many of you use Ademco as well. Of all the current model Ademco's which one would be most highly recommended or conversely generally have the least problems associated with it. I am currently researching the Vista 10, 15 & 20 but I don't understand the main differences between them. From what I have learned I would need an Ademco 6139 or 6160 keypad to program any of these panels. What are the main differences between these keypads? I am more interested in whichever is easier to read and less confusing for my wife to be able to understand.

  1. If not Ademco I am open to any suggestions regarding other systems. My goal is to keep this system as simple as possible. I don't plan to have the system monitored. I am basically looking to know if someone has broken in when I am home so I can be ready to defend myself and my family. If I am not home I'd imagine the alarm would likely scare most burglars away and I have plenty of neighbors who are almost always home who I would hope would make the call for me. I would however like the system to have the capability to dial my cell phone so I would know it had been tripped. Is this something most panels would already have or something I'd need to add on.

  2. In keeping with my intention not to have this system monitored, once the alarm is tripped how long is the typical cutoff time for the system to sound until? If memory serves me correct when my neighbor's alarm has gone off when he was not home his alarm sounded for around five minutes. After this period of time is the system inactive, active and able to detect a different zone other than the one that was tripped or are all zones active again including the one that was tripped?

  1. Which systems (or which Ademco systems if any) have a voice alarm where when the alarm is tripped the system announces something such as "the police have been notified" or something similar. I would suspect this is an effective feature and I would think in the middle of the night it would be better to be woken up to that rather than an ear-piercing siren.

  2. How do security systems differentiate a security alarm signal from a fire alarm signal? Is the same "audible tone" generated when either is activated or are they distinct?

  1. The house is a cape style home with two finished levels and a full basement. The basement is wide open, measures 24' x 34' and the only entrance points are two small ground level windows and a steel bulkhead all along the same wall. I am wondering if the approach should be switches on all three, a beam sensor across all three or simply one motion for the whole basement and maybe reinforce the entrance points (i.e. bars on inside of windows.) My focus on this and really all parts of the system is highest reliability and on minimizing false alarms.

  2. While it would be great if I had the time and money required to alarm every window in the house I unfortunately have neither. I have a rear sliding patio door I believe would be a likely point of entry for a thief and I'd like to protect that with a glass-break detector for the door and a motion detector for that room as a back-up to the glass-break detector. Assuming I use a motion in that room I would want it armed at night. If I were to go in that room at night however I would set it off. Is it possible however to use a dual-technology peripheral for this one room and wire/program the system so that the glass-break detector is on a 24 hour zone and the motion detector is on an "away" zone or would I need to use two different peripherals for this?

As some general information I will be installing the system myself and I will be using 80% hardwired devices and limiting my wireless devices to those areas where running wire to them is either impractical or impossible. I plan to purchase the equipment from ADI through a neighbor who has an account there. I am asking these questions here rather than of him since he deals with ADI through his work as a commercial surveillance system technician and has very little knowledge of security alarm systems.

As professionals I value your opinion and appreciate your input. I will check this thread for replies but if you would rather e-mail a reply please feel free to do so.

Thanks again.

-Steve

Reply to
nafhsuramai
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There's not much difference in terms of quality between the Vista-10, 15 and

  1. Each is intended for a different size job. The Vista-20P (current models have the "P") starts with 8 zones (sensing loops and can expand up to
  2. It's a hybrid system. That means it will handle both wired (any brand) and wireless (Ademco) sensors.

The 6160 replaces the older style 6139.

Everyone has his favorite brand. I'm partial to Napco mainly because I've installed them for many years. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Ademco though. I sell more Ademco systems (to DIYers) than any other brand. People often ask for it either because they're familiar with the systems or because dealers havw proposed to install an Ademco system for them.

Whether you're home or not, most burglars will run when the siren goes off. There are a few who are more persistent, of course, but there's some question how much good a call to the police would do unless it's made very quickly and the officers happen to be nearby at the time.

Don't get me wrong on this. I believe in monitoring. Done right it can be a very worthwhile service. I just don't happen to believe it is necessary for everyone.

Many modern panels can dial a pager. Most can also dial a cell phone if you substitute it for a pager. What you'll get will look like a hang-up call from your own house. The weakness of self-mnitoring is you are unlikely to be around at all times. If the thief breaks in or fire breaks out while you're away on vacation or somehow unable to get the message no one will know about it. Evaluate the risks and costs of monitoring vs. not doing so and make your own decision.

That's a programmable option. I don't like anything less than 4 minutes. OTOH, more than 5 minutes and you run the risk of being tarred and feathered by the neighbors. :^)

That too is a programmable option on many panels. Some employ a feature called "swinger shut-down" which allows the panel to ignore a faulty zone yet otherwise remain armed after several false trips during a single arming cycle.

There are voice siren drivers from Napco, Elk Products and others which can alternately play a siren sound and a pretty convincing rendition of an angry guard on a PA system. I don't know whether that is more of a deterrant than a standard siren. What I can say is that it's still sufficiently different that it causes a lot of folks to turn and look. That's usually a good thing during an emergency.

There are different zones (sensing circuits) which are tripped by different sensors. The panel sees a violated zone, notices it's a fire alartm condition and does its thing.

Usually not. Most siren drivers have multiple tones for different conditions. I'm running out of time so I'll add more to the subject later. Hope this much helps.

Reply to
Robert L. Bass

answer are in line

a écrit dans le message de news: snipped-for-privacy@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

if you want sometning simple to use/program dont go Ademco... I would suggest DSC..power 8-32 or power 8-64

there is a way to program the dsc panel for pager

many siren are doing exactly what you want...

on the DSC panel the signal is continuous for burglar and pulsed for the fire.. if you use a voice siren some model can diferentiate between the 2 type of signal and can act according to it..

i really dislike any bars on windows...if a kid or someone working inn the basement create a fire and cant climb the stairs to exit i would really feel bad knowing the he could have survived if there would ahve been no bar on the windows... so a combo of contact and dual technology PIR/microwave detector can should do a very good job...

never saw a dual pir/glass break detector better use 2 device..the GB on a

24 hour zone is not a good thing also

If you have access to ADI the ademco panel will be easier the purchase.. but like i told you before the use of a napco is less easy then a DSC same for programing...the Ademco manual is a nightmare...

Reply to
petem

I thought you said you are not an installer.............

Bob

Reply to
Mel

RLB: Hmmph, I didn't say I wasn't an installer, I merely asked when I said it

Doug L

Reply to
Doug L

When was that?

Reply to
Robert L. Bass

" Since I don't install or monitor systems in Florida and I don't do in-home sales Florida not only doesn't require a license"

and:

"I don't need a license since I don't install in Florida. From the above you apparently don't even know Florida law."

and:

"I am not required to be licensed because I sell retail -- just like Home Depot, except my products are professional. I don't install. "

"Nope. I don't install any more so I no longer need a license."

and:

"That's right. Since I don't install in Florida and I don't make sales calls in anyone's homes in Florida, I don't need a Florida license."

.. . . . . . . .

Reply to
Karl Magnus

Hope that the siren wakes you up? Hope that the siren scares the bad guy away? Hope that it wakes you up before the purp puts a bag over your head? Hope that the siren is heard by someone outside? Hope that that someone knows where the siren sound is coming from and reports the correct address to the police? Hope that that someone doesn't also get shot by you or the purp if/when he investigates? Hope that that someone actually calls the police?

Rather than basing your family's safety on a whole bunch of false hopes, wouldn't it be better to know that a good-guy with a gun will show up (police)...for a few bucks a month in monitoring fees?

What about fire?

The peace of mind knowing that someone who knows what to do (police with guns, fire department with trucks and hoses), and has the tools to help, is on the way is worth the price of admission.

And, I have yet to see a dog that is able to dial the phone to call the police or fire department.

Reply to
Crash Gordon®

I guess this one goes under the "well I don't wear a helmet when I drive my car either" category. I just think there is a better chance of me becoming the victim of a violent crime away from my own home than there is of a very high decibel siren not waking me up, the siren not scaring the bad guy away, the purp making it all the way into and through the house to the stairwell and up it quicker than I can reach into the nightstand next to me, the siren not being heard by neighbors which are right next to me and so on and so forth.

Those sound like infinitely small odds.

On the other hand I'd really appreciate your professional opinion on some of my queries.

-Steve

Crash Gord> > My goal is to keep this system as simple as possible. I don't plan

the correct address to the police?

wouldn't it be better to know that a good-guy with a gun will show up (police)...for a few bucks a month in monitoring fees?

fire department with trucks and hoses), and has the tools to help, is on the way is worth the price of admission.

or fire department.

Reply to
nafhsuramai

Yah I think I saw that one...and another seeing-eye dog not too long ago did the same thing...but most dawgs don't.

Reply to
Crash Gordon®

I'm just a homeowner. We moved into a house with an existing system, no monitoring company. We decided to keep it that way, and added an auto-dialer. We programmed it to call us at work and leave a message, and also page us. So far it's worked like a champ. Here's the one we bought. I believe we also had to purchase and install a relay. They can provide you with the tech support you need. It wasn't difficult.

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Reply to
Vacu Flo

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:-))

Reply to
Frank Olson

This is a little off the subject, but, nonetheless, good for a laugh.

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Reply to
Fred and Sue Odom

Boy, would that pager annoy the burglar while he's beating you over the head with your own baseball bat.

| >

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| >

| >

| > > 1. An alarm technician my company does business with spoke highly of | > > Ademco. From reading this group I know many of you use Ademco as well. | > > Of all the current model Ademco's which one would be most highly | > > recommended or conversely generally have the least problems associated | > > with it. I am currently researching the Vista 10, 15 & 20 but I | > > don't understand the main differences between them. From what I have | > > learned I would need an Ademco 6139 or 6160 keypad to program any of | > > these panels. What are the main differences between these keypads? I | > > am more interested in whichever is easier to read and less confusing | > > for my wife to be able to understand. | > >

| > > 2. If not Ademco I am open to any suggestions regarding other systems. | > > My goal is to keep this system as simple as possible. I don't plan | > > to have the system monitored. I am basically looking to know if | > > someone has broken in when I am home so I can be ready to defend myself | > > and my family. If I am not home I'd imagine the alarm would likely | > > scare most burglars away and I have plenty of neighbors who are almost | > > always home who I would hope would make the call for me. I would | > > however like the system to have the capability to dial my cell phone so | > > I would know it had been tripped. Is this something most panels would | > > already have or something I'd need to add on. | > >

| > > 3. In keeping with my intention not to have this system monitored, once | > > the alarm is tripped how long is the typical cutoff time for the system | > > to sound until? If memory serves me correct when my neighbor's alarm | > > has gone off when he was not home his alarm sounded for around five | > > minutes. After this period of time is the system inactive, active and | > > able to detect a different zone other than the one that was tripped or | > > are all zones active again including the one that was tripped? | > >

| > > 4. Which systems (or which Ademco systems if any) have a voice alarm | > > where when the alarm is tripped the system announces something such as | > > "the police have been notified" or something similar. I would | > > suspect this is an effective feature and I would think in the middle of | > > the night it would be better to be woken up to that rather than an | > > ear-piercing siren. | > >

| > > 5. How do security systems differentiate a security alarm signal from a | > > fire alarm signal? Is the same "audible tone" generated when | > > either is activated or are they distinct? | > >

| > > 6. The house is a cape style home with two finished levels and a full | > > basement. The basement is wide open, measures 24' x 34' and the | > > only entrance points are two small ground level windows and a steel | > > bulkhead all along the same wall. I am wondering if the approach | > > should be switches on all three, a beam sensor across all three or | > > simply one motion for the whole basement and maybe reinforce the | > > entrance points (i.e. bars on inside of windows.) My focus on this and | > > really all parts of the system is highest reliability and on minimizing | > > false alarms. | > >

| > > 7. While it would be great if I had the time and money required to | > > alarm every window in the house I unfortunately have neither. I have a | > > rear sliding patio door I believe would be a likely point of entry for | > > a thief and I'd like to protect that with a glass-break detector for | > > the door and a motion detector for that room as a back-up to the | > > glass-break detector. Assuming I use a motion in that room I would | > > want it armed at night. If I were to go in that room at night however | > > I would set it off. Is it possible however to use a dual-technology | > > peripheral for this one room and wire/program the system so that the | > > glass-break detector is on a 24 hour zone and the motion detector is on | > > an "away" zone or would I need to use two different peripherals for | > > this? | > >

| > > As some general information I will be installing the system myself and | > > I will be using 80% hardwired devices and limiting my wireless devices | > > to those areas where running wire to them is either impractical or | > > impossible. I plan to purchase the equipment from ADI through a | > > neighbor who has an account there. I am asking these questions here | > > rather than of him since he deals with ADI through his work as a | > > commercial surveillance system technician and has very little knowledge | > > of security alarm systems. | > >

| > > As professionals I value your opinion and appreciate your input. I | > > will check this thread for replies but if you would rather e-mail a | > > reply please feel free to do so. | > >

| > > Thanks again. | > >

| > > -Steve | > >

| >

| >

| |

Reply to
Crash Gordon®

How often do you pick up your messages? Getting your messages on Monday morning must be like rubbing salt into the wound when you were broken into over the weekend.

How does it work when you have a police emergency? The intruder is there and you and your wife are shivering in the corner or a closet, but wait!!!!!!!!everything is going to be fine honey, I hear my pager going off.

So far it's worked like a champ.

On false alarms

Here's the one we bought.

Just a waste of time and money

Reply to
Bob Worthy

with your own baseball bat.

Crash,

You should know better than that. In upper class areas, burglars bring their own bats. Now granted, he may not want to get his bat all messy and gooey, but I'd think he'd still use his own, rather than having to rummage through all their stuff to find *their* bat. Besides, you KNOW that damn pager would be rushing him like crazy.

BOP ..... where's the pager? BOP ...... where's the pager? BOP BOP, ....... I **SAID** Where's the pager? BOP,BOP,BOP ..... now damnit, I'm gonna get really MAD in a minute if you don't tell me where ...... Oh ...... never mind ....It stopped.

OK that's better.

Now. BOP ...... where's the money? (Beep)(missed call alert from pager) BOP, BOP, I **said** where's the money? (Beep) BOP, BOP, BOP!

Reply to
Jim

Hey Robert. Hey there. Hey Robert. Hey Robert. Robert. Robert. Hey, hey Robert. Hey Mr Robert. Hey CCCCCCoud I axe you a question? Hey there. Hey Robert Hey? Cud I huh huh? Coud I? HuH?

Wowowowooud that be an good exampa of, of, of, of you, getting more back than you, you, you deserve?

Hey there Hey Robert ...... Wo wo wo woooooud it ....huh? huh? Wooooud it? Wooooud it?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HOOO HOOO HOOO AAAAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Welllll Goooooly ...... that felt good!

Reply to
Jim

Well, compared to the monitoring we used to have, and the police showing up

90 minutes later or the next day...doesn't make much diff.

My wife doesn't shiver. In fact, I don't even have a wife. How fast do you get the police somewhere? The police in San Diego sometimes don't make it until the next day. Worthless.

It's nice to know when I forgot to latch the back door and it blows open. I didn't claim to be an alarm professional, just giving the bloke an idea. Hold on to your skivvies.

Reply to
Vacu Flo

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