CP-01

It seems Texas is going to CP-01 starting January 1, 2007. So I went to the distributors place today for a little dog and pony on CP-01. DSC is putting it on. So I hear all the information on the 1616,1832,1864. Then I say well "what about the 4020 and the whole MAXSYS line?" It easy says DSC. The DSC MAXSYS line is not CP-01 compliant. You can not install them after December

31, 2006. Wow, I never thought a manufacturer would just abandon a whole line. DSC says we don't feel that badly about not selling the MAXSYS line because Paradox doesn't seem to have a single CP-01 panel that they can sell. Wow again, a manufacturer writes off an entire state?

Well it's not often that I get to hang around with the trunk slammers at the parts house. So I am thinking maybe things have changed and I shouldn't be so quick to judge some of these guys. No need to think less of someone's ability just because they have been in the business for 5 or 10 years and still don't know how to use a meter for some basics tasks like how to find a ground or measure inductance. So I asked around to be sure, and yep, they still didn't know how. So I am overhearing a dealer on the phone complaining to the counter guy about some gear he just bought that doesn't seem to work. So the counter guy says are you sure you observed polarity and didn't blow it up? Sure we're sure we hooked it up right says the dealer. After all WE POWERED IT UP BOTH WAYS AND EVEN TRIED STRAIGHT TRANSFORMER POWER BUT IT STILL DOESN"T WORK! I guess not much has changed.

So where else are they having to deal with CP-01 besides us?

Reply to
Roland Moore
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Can you explain what CP-0 is?

Jim Rojas

Reply to
Jim Rojas

I hate to show my ignorance, but what exactly is CP-01. I'm surprised that DSC and Paradox haven't taken this into account (especially Paradox).

RHC

Roland Moore wrote:

Reply to
tourman

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Basically what it means to you is: it sets false alarm reduction defaults in panel programming that are unchangeable (like dial delay).

Reply to
G. Morgan

Ok, thanks Graham...

Sounds like the big fellas like ADT with their normal 30 sec delay before transmission might have had their say in the makeup of that one.....

RHC

G. Morgan wrote:

Reply to
tourman

I have been using dialer delay, cross zoning, & abort signals for 10+ years. But many panels on that list can have those features turned off easily. Ademco Vista20P has it set for 30 seconds by default. I think that is way too long.

Jim Rojas

Reply to
Jim Rojas

I wonder though if the new standard allows you the flexibility to choose which options you want on and which ones you want off. I don't like dialer delay, but use all the other false alarm prevention features myself

I guess I better read Grahams link more thoroughly....

RHC

Jim Rojas wrote:

Reply to
tourman

I don't know what's going on at ADT...I have done so many takeovers on their accounts, and found the following in many instances:

1 minute bell timeout 30 second transmission delay (too long for my taste) All perimeter zones programmed as Entry Exit Delay (what the F**k?) At least the motions are programmed normally. Keypad fire disabled. (yet you must send them the signal on a new account)

What are they thinking? Nice way to invite a lawsuit I say...

Jim Rojas

Reply to
Jim Rojas

Without a word of a lie Jim, ADT is my best single source of customers. I do from 5 to 7 takeovers a month. I'm not very familiar with how they program, because I usually just default and reprogram (or in the case of Ademco equipment, I yank the old and re-install another panel - or walk away in some cases). But I do know they use a 30 second delay which I personally agree with you on, that it is far too long. I been told by customers that often the motions are programmed as entry delay to allow the client to shut it off , when say he incorrectly fully arma the system while in the house rather than "stay" arming it properly...

The increase in ADT customers coming my way has jumped lately due to their inability or unwillingness to reprogram locally for the ten digit dialing now required. In some ways, I feel for them !! After years of buying up small companies, they find themselves with thousands of older panels that either can't be uploaded, or can't even be reprogrammed since the equipment to do so no longer exists. They seem to be suggesting to clients to either pay through the nose to upgrade their equipment, or sometimes they'll just leave things "hanging", such that the client decides on his own that his only real option to having any kind of service at all is to jump ship. Stupid way to operate if you ask me, but that's how it often seems to play out (seems no one has told them it's far cheaper to keep a client than find a new one....). But...hey...their loss is everyone else's gain....

I used to worry about talking about their weaknesses on the internet in case someone from the company actually cared enough to take action to correct things. Seems a pointless concern these days...

Didn't know about the fire panic though....

RHC

Jim Rojas wrote:

Reply to
tourman

I could after taking that CP-01 class, but it might be easier just to look here.

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site has a list of CP-01 panels. The list is not correct. Unfortunately even this is already outdated and incomplete. But there still aren't very many panels on the real up to date list. Let's say in CP-01 there are a lot of hyper-technical details on panel programing. Here are some examples: I see in some other posts concerns about dialer delay. That is one item. It defaults to 30 seconds. You can change it to 15 seconds. If you set it to less than 15 seconds it defaults back to 30 seconds. (it is that way on all the CP-01 features, set it too low and it goes to default value). Panel must be able to send closing error signals to Central. Kepads have to beep in a unique way during the last ten seconds of entry or exit delay. Panel must disarm if just 4 digit code is entered and nothing more (no "off" digit or "enter" button). No 1+ combo duress. Delay restart must be active. On BURG zones only, swinger shutdown default is on one trip, can't be more than two trips, arm/disarm to restart, (or recycles in 48 hours to allow additional trips) or can be programed to send troubles on further trips. Panel disables call waiting on first dial to Central *70. No fire verify on 2 wire smokes just 4 wire? (A bug or a feature, I can't tell which). Panel has to beep (exterior) on remote arm (fob). Panel must have some new differnet different zone types. DSC has a new one called night zones (strange new zone type) and a couple more, I don't know if it relates to CP-01 or DSC just thinks it does. Automatic removal of interior (stay/away) and night zones if no exit door is faulted on arming, except remote arm by fob type. Takes two buttons (or three second hold-down) to activate panic or manual alarm from fob or keypad. New DSC panel has pager format like before but also a new residential dial format and one other similar format to send info to end user's cell without sending it to Central. Is that just for CP-01? No one really knows yet. Officially panels are not grandfathered. If a non CP-01 panel blows up, a CP-01 goes back in. That is the panel manufacturer's take on it anyway. I wonder why? The list goes on and on about goofy little picky things. No reason to try to like it or not like it. Other than some minor tweaks CP-01 features really can't be changed on a CP-01 panel. The DSC guy says California is next to get CP-01 no later than 2009. I haven't seen that in writing anywhere. If California gets it then it won't be long until EVERYONE will. The only positive thing I can think of is that in Texas it just became far easier for a technician to say to the customer "I can work on and program any panel that is out there", and really be able to. It gives panel manufacturers a great excuse too when they put in features no one likes, or when they remove ones folks do like. They can say "Sorry, it's just a CP-01 thing" and we HAD to do it. I think you may see a round or two of law suits filed where one manufacturer tries to get a panel from another manufacturer labeled CP-01 "disqualified". Now who could have figured lawyers would benefit from this CP-01 thing? I never saw it coming.

"Jim Rojas" wrote in message news:uogch.3349$ snipped-for-privacy@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

Reply to
Roland Moore

Nope, for instance previous panels would let you remove dialer delay but the new ones make it mandatory or minimum very difficult to implement, in the case of Honeywell/Ademco the changes are

Exit delay is now minimum 45 seconds Entry delay is now minimum 30 seconds Audible Exit delay keypad sounds cannot be disabled Burg dial delay now has a 2nd entry to add zones without dial delay to Zone List 6 Exit error reporting cannot be disabled Cancel reporting is enabled by default

I think cancel reporting can be disabled

Recent closing reporting added and enabled, you CAN remove dialing delay however it's a pain.

Reply to
Mark Leuck

The suprising thing is they created a mini industry of small companies that did nothing but change the phone numbers in those panels. I had several friends who did it and the success rate was like 95% then ADT killed funding for it.

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Perhaps they never implemented that procedure up here in the frozen north; if they had, I doubt I and other small dealers would be nearly as busy with takeovers as we currently are.

I am in touch with a number of smaller dealers around our town on a regular basis, and have never heard of anyone being hired by ADT as a subcontractor to go out and strictly reprogram for them. It likely would be both cheaper and more convenient for them to do that than use their own expensive staff.

Good idea ! It might also have saved what little reputation they have locally had they done so.

RHC

Mark Leuck wrote:

Reply to
tourman

Reas about it here

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Me too!

Reply to
Roland Moore

Not the new ones shipping from Honeywell in the last 6 months or so. The exit error 'feature', coupled with 30 sec. dial delay makes it a real pain in the ass to send delay zone test signals.

So do I, I prefer no delay with cancel signal active AND a phone call to premises before dispatch. The long dial delay leads to more service calls from customers stating the 'alarm went off and yoo'ze guys didn't even call me!'. Trying to explain this is a 'feature' -- ain't too swift.

Reply to
G. Morgan

DSC has to some degree, I don't know about Paradox but I wouldn't take the word of a factory rep as gospel, especially when they talk about a competitor

Reply to
Mark Leuck

The whole fiasco is a damage control effort that was caused by the likes of ADT in the first place.

Reply to
G. Morgan

Bob,

Many of the CP-01 control panel standards are programmable options. The standard mandates that they be available but does not force the installer to select them. A number of these things have been available since before the standard was written. "Auto-stay", for lack of a better term, is one example.

I've never liked dialer delays -- that just gives the bad guys an opportunity to seek and destroy the control panel before the signal gets out. With many companies mounting panels in easily accessible, obvious locations, that's too much added risk IMO. OTOH, I like to implement cancel reporting. I feel that it obviates dialer delay with less added risk.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

standard mandates that they be available but does not force

available since before the standard was written. "Auto-stay", for

opportunity to seek and destroy the control panel before the

accessible, obvious locations, that's too much added risk IMO.

dialer delay with less added risk.

This is an opinion of a parts re-seller who will not admit to the last time he was actually at an installaion location or has actually met with a customer other than over the telephone or keyboard. Before making a decision about the implementation, or not, of the CP0-1 standard, check your local alarm ordinance. More and more jurisdictions are making the use of these standards part of their ordinances. Discuss the options with your security professional so that they can be set up to your satisfaction. They are there to be worked with, not ignored. By the way, just how long is that dialer delay, Robert?

Reply to
Bob Worthy

Reply to
Roland

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