Commercial Alarm - help

Al, are you familiar with the National Guards De-Lite program?

Well put Al; I couldn't agree more, especially the suggestion that we in the electronic security industry do more to educate the client on how he can do the simple, often cost effective things to make their home or business more secure. I like your idea of either learning to do the physical side of things, or making it pay for you by bringing in those who can do the job, with a referral fee in it for you.

It's been my experience that our industry is often so focused on RMR, that educating the client has taken a distant back seat, especially when there is no money in it for us. I don't want to get on my soapbox again, but if we are to be regarded as professionals in this industry, then we should act like professionals, and do a complete job for the client, even when there is no direct profit in it for us.

R.H.Campbell Home Security Metal Products Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Not yet. There could be a day when motion detectors are replaced by video. This is already being done in multiple outdoor applications and quite a few industrial type indoor apps where large scale motion detection isn't practical. Eventually, this technology may be adapted to the smaller scale instrusion detection market.

The point is the current technology doesn't work very well. Name another industry where end-users tolerate 99% failure rates. Once police response is eliminated through ordinances and no-response policies, the industry will be forced to rethink their value proposition. What exactly are they selling? Peace of mind? Protection? Noise makers?

IMO, the real money is in video/ access and recurring services outside of traditional burglar alarm monitoring. Margins are better, competition is less, and growth rates are three times higher. I'll leave the single family BA installations to you guys.

J.

Thanks Jim. That's a pretty fair analogy. I just think a system should work properly, and I'm not saying all, many or even most don't. But I also understand the environment, and have for years. I see and know the potential, but again, understand the environment.

In 2003, I received a report (secretly) from a major metropolitain police department that covered over 10,000 false alarms from a six month span, that covered 3 of the cities six districts. Curiously, I put together a letter targeting the worst offenders. All businesses. I sent 1,000 letters discusing the issues, and encouraging owners of alarms to better understand the circular effects that these alarms have had, and continue to have on their community. I wasn't selling anything. While I was hopeful that some people actually cared, I fully anticipated a low response. Then once again I get educated on the environment...no response. I still move forward.

My problem (personality wise, and other than using improper spelling of the English grammer) is that I tend to always question the non-thinker, when I have questions. It sometimes comes off as "my way is right", and yours wrong, I get the twenty thousand years plus experience...speach, or I get the .... no response (lately). You probably didn't retire from the Navy, nor did I, so I know you can relate to that environment. It's not that I'm confrontational, or live to challenge authority, I just (again personality wise) have a strong desire to want to reach a collaborative discussion. Most personalities, IMO, don't often allow for that. The counter to that, I believe, is trust. We both know that process....

Had a customer once... He had money coming out his ears. Well his business had ultrasonic motion detectors installed in every room which he paid quite a bit for. At the time they were installed, there was no refrigerator in his business. Well he added a refrigerator and started having false alarms.

So we go to fix it and tell him he needs something different from ultrasonics or get rid of the refrigerator...

....And he says the refrigerator stays, I'm not getting a new system (i.e. your're trying to rip me off!), just fix the existing system!

So we wanted to fix it, but he would not allow us to do anything which would resolve the situation.

Then he would get pissed at one repair guy and ask for another. Then the next guy would say the same thing. Then he would explode... "I'm not getting a new system", etc.

I can see where he was coming from. He paid a lot of money for his system. Thought he was getting the best when he bought it, etc.

Clients are funny!

I just replaced 2x 5808 wireless smokes. Why? Because he was changing batteries every 6 months. Why?...they usually last at least a year IF you use the Duracell ...are you using the Duracells like I've been tellin you for years...YES. Ok. So I go out there and he has Walgreen's batteries in there. Bruce...these are NOT Duracells see LOOK it says it stamped right into the bottom of the smoke. Well...I'm ***not**** gonna put the most expensive batteries in these things all the time. What all the time? If you put the right ones in they will last at least a year...if they don't I'll GIVE you a set of batteries. I don't care I want them out of the system. Ok...how much to put wired ones in? I feel badly about this so I only charge him 200 bucks to do an attic crawl and install 2 wired smokes (this is cheap considering what we had to do to install them).

Now he's happy...but 200 bucks would have bought him a LOT of Duracells!

Yup I used to get that from people who had AT&T 8000's

I don't know what you're trying to "sell" here but if you truly believe that all alarm systems fail, you're either a politician or daft. Do you really believe that all alarm systems fail? I don't mean to say that they "never" fail, but all of them fail, all the time? I can say the same thing about automobile accidents. 99% of people have fatal accident. Because, certainly we don't want to consider all the people who DON'T have fatal accidents or those who don't have any.

When ever an effort is made by a community to reduce false alarms, don't they compare it to a figure that existed before they started? Sure, starting from the viewpoint of 99% false alarms is a percieved stating point, but it by no means says that ALL alarm systems are sending in false alarm causing response. Some alarm systems signals are verified ....others don't send any.

You know that that is only going to last as long as it isn't in the mainstream. As soon as it gets into the realm of being easlily available, is when the compitition begins and the margins get down to reality. Right now, I'm making a fortune on doing home theater and computer network wiring in the home. As soon as the technology is reduced to being easlily installed or available retail, the margins will go with it. So don't throw all your eggs into the basket. That's simply a well known market phenomenon

Haven't we already determined that in past threads?

None of what you've said (Except your incorrect 99% figure) in this thread, really applies to residential which the majority of participants in this group consists of. So when you say that CCTV is the answer to cutting down on false alarms, and implying that no one is using it, but you can't suggest how it would work in residential, you're prophesy isn't universally accurate.

However I DO agree that it would go a long way in commercial. But then it occurs to me that I don't remember where the source of most false alarms occurs. Commercial or residential? If it happens to be residential, then your prophesy is that much the less accurate.

I believe this has something to do with outdoor sensor technology used in conjunction with outdoor lights, alarm sensors, and other subsystems in a facility. Is this correct?

Amen to that. The slogan, "one-stop shop" should apply. If it doesn't, then we need to work to make it apply.

I can honestly tell you that of the systems we installed, whether you're looking at 31 years ago when I started or my last stint as operations manager of Abbott, we never saw that kind of failure rate. In the early days we did have some problems with PIRs and ultrasonics, microwave detectors, too, but by and large, most of our problems related to end users who may not have understood their system very well or who was in a hurry and made a mistake. Commercial accounts, most of this type of failure related to employees who ran to their car to get the heck out of there before the police came. Some of them we were able to get to call in and cancel the alarm, but many we couldn't, and in many instances these businesses had such a high turnover that by the time you got one manager use to the system, he was off and another new one walked in the door.

Al

Subscribers cause the great majority of all false alarms. And there's simply no way to stop morons from being morons.

1. Somebody is on the premeises who doesn't know the code.
2. Somebody is on the premises who doesn't know the correct password.
3. Somebody failed to secure a door properly at closing.
4. Somebody failed to secure a door at all.
5. Somebody put something in the path of a motion sensor that moves.
6. Somebody has turned off the power to the alarm system at closing time.
7. Somebody is on the premises who doesn't have any idea there is an alarm system: a. pest control company b. landlord c. cleaning crew d. vent hood cleaners e. various other service providers f. real estate people showing the property g. somebody detailed to take care of pets or pool or lawn or otherwise etc.
8. Somebody who simply doesn't know how to operate the alarm system.
9. The building is vacant and/or law enforcement went to the wrong address.

These are the primary causes of no merit alarms. None is actually a 'false' alarm - they are all valid alarms proving that the systems are working exactly the way they were intended and are functioning correctly..

After you eliminate these causes then you have bad weather conditions that cause alarms due to windows and doors moving or other parts of the building moving, power going off and on, phone lines going up and down, etc. These are also not 'false' false alarms.

The above will account for 99.9/10% of all alarm calls.

There is very little, if anything, the security industry can do about this. If each alarm location had enough cameras to properly display the premises maybe many no merit dispatches could be avoided but those days are a long way off if ever.

Then you have the problem of junk product and faulty installation but until you eleiminate the subscriber caused no merit alarms you are just wasting your time trying to fix the problem.

J! wake up!

I don't believe I've got to go though this with someone who's in the trade.

If you have 20,000 alarm signals being received a month and all but a few are false, you're saying that they have a 99% false alarm rate. Now, lets say they do a revamp of the alarm systems, get every end user to take alarm classes, set up fines and the alarm signals are reduced to a fantastically low, 1000 alarm signals a month with all but a few being false. By YOUR reckoning, all alarm systems have a 99% false alarm rate.

You're throwing this 99% around as if all alarm systems are sending in false alarm signals and you're completely ignoring and not comparing it to the actual number of systems that are installed.

Does it make any difference what causes the false alarm in your 99%?

My analogy about fatal accidents is comparable to what you're trying to say about false alarms. If you can ignore the verified false signals and the systems that don't send false signals, to arrive at a 99% rate of false alarms for all alarm systems, then I guess I can ignore the people in non fatal accidents and those that don't have any ...... to say that all accidents are fatal.

Do a google search for "99% false alarm" and you'll see reports from police departments all across the country showing false alarm rates at or above 99%.

Granted, most of these are nuisance alarms caused by end users triggering the system accidently. The equipment is blame in far fewer cases. However, the end result is the same.

The car wreck analogy is a bad one.

Soap box mode switched to ON...

Keep this in mind... The source quoting the 99% false alarm rate, is the same source that doesn't always get his/her butt out of the car to investigate the cause of the alarm... All that's done is a "Drive by" investigation at about 20 mph... I have been told the "Drive by" response happens frequently in my local area... Of course, we'll never know how often, because the PD doesn't keep a record on incomplete alarm investigations... 99% False, Hmmm, my BS detector is going off, it's telling me someone wants more money for the general fund... :-))

Does anyone is this group ever listen to Police radio traffic?

I do, and believe me when I say "Burglar alarms are a LOW LOW LOW PRIORITY"... Response time is anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours... On a busy Friday night, your customer's alarm will probably be cleared out of the dispatch system without being assigned to a patrol unit.

I'm honest with my (I'm in a large metro area) customers, I tell them the best response is provided by a Private Patrol Service (A.K.A. Guard Service)... It ain't free, but at least the Guard will get out of the car and check the premises...

Soap box mode switched to OFF.......... :-))

You mean "boat anchors", don't you???

Stop and think how that percentage is calculated. It compares the number of false alarms to the number of burglaries, something no alarm company can control. The false alarm percentage will always be 100% until somebody decides to commit a crime. The fewer burglaries there are, the higher the false alarm percentage will be. That's true whether you have 100 false alarms or 10,000.

Judging alarm companies by false alarm percentages is like judging cops by how many crimes are committed in their area. Last time I checked, the cops still haven't figured out how to prevent people from committing crimes.

Not at all. I'm only using numbers reported by law enforcement. According to all reports I've read that well over 90% of the time when police respond to a burglar alarm, it turns out to be a false.

Most reports say 99%. That's the number.

What evidence do you have to support another number?

The number of systems installed is irrelevant. That isn't going to affect legislation. Law makers only care about where the tax dollars are being mis-spent. When the cops go to them and say we're wasting our time 99% of the time with false alarms, companies like your go out of business.

Here's how simple the calculation is: The Police are notified to respond to a burglar alarm going off at xyz residence. Police arrive, find no sign of a break-in at the premise. This is logged as a "False Alarm". This information is collected all Year long. At the end of the year, they compare the actual calls for response, with ACTUAL crimes. Response vs. Crime.

If I'm wrong, show me a report from a responding authority having jurisdiction that states otherwise. "SHOW ME"