Commercial Alarm - help

I've never had an unexplained false alarm on my systems...first house 10 years second house 11 years. Any false alarm has always been by user error...letting the dog out, burning the bacon, etc.

If someone attempts a break in while I'm home Mr. Colt and I will greet them.

Reply to
Crash Gordon
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There is no "crime prevention" in a residential application. It's only a set of words that floats around in your head like the term "Peace of Mind". There are other avenues that can provide better layers of detection. I think that most of the alarm industry has mislead people to believe that some of these methods can be set at an exact dollar amount. That way of thinking will be a long road to recovery from the amount of false alarms that has plagued the industry, and the respondents. Moving outdoors with detection, video verification, and intervention will be the next step. Problem is right now, the RMR Nazi's can't figure out the technology, let alone make it affordable.

Reply to
Jackcsg

My experience with false alarms caused by equipment problems is in the following order...

  1. Motion detectors - This can now be almost eliminated with the dual technology motion detectors. This costs more money though.

  1. Front door contacts on businesses with aluminum and glass fronts. After closing, a customer will barge full speed at the front door to open it, but it is locked, and the customer causes the front door contact to momentarily open (due to the whole aluminum front "vibrating"). If there is a control panel which will trigger an alarm with a momentary open, you will get a false alarm. Use a control panel which requires the contact to be open for a full second or install a relay with a small capacitor between the door contact and the electronic control unit.

  2. Building wiring acting as an antenna. If you have a large building with wires run all over, the wires can act as an antenna. Electrical disturbances nearby (especially lightning) can induce voltage in all this wiring and trigger a false alarm. Use shielded wiring. This of course is more expensive.
Reply to
Bill

With due of respect, I disagree. A video system's first purpose must be prevention. UL relies on visibility in certificated alarm systems. They want the perp to know there's a system in the building because it just might stop the attack so it doesn't occur in the first place. Video verification is the very last thing that takes place once the CS has received the alarm.

The very first order of business is to make the man who intends to break in think twice about his intended plan. Yard signs, outdoor lighting, window locks, decals, deadbolts, all of these things are intended to present hurdles between that man and his target--the interior of a home. Every expert who has written about crime has always made this point.

Alarms and cameras will never keep anyone out of a home or business. Physical security comes first, then electronic detection, notification, video verification, etc. It is my opinion, as well as many others, that the priority for alarm dealers ought to be: Prevention, Detection, and Notification.

Al

Reply to
Al Colombo

momentarily

IMO, a "vibrating" door should not trip the contact. No way. js

Reply to
alarman

I hate to tell you this but it's the "RMR Nazi's that are driving the technology and slowly making it affordable

Reply to
Mark Leuck

I was only a small alarm dealer mind you, but my biggest problem was end users who did not always take the time to operate their alarm system properly. Commercial suffered from high turnover and lax attitudes, such as a manager who, because he's in a big hurry to get out of there, causes an alarm to occur. Instead of turning back, resetting the sytem and calling the CS, they make a run for their car. The police comes and nothing is wrong, so they call it a false alarm.

I recall one new year's eve when I received a page from the CS concerning one of my commercial leases. I responded in time to see the SO before they left the scene. They were classifying it as a false alarm (we did not have false alarms from that account). One look at the rear of the building told me they were missing something. There was a stack of wooden crates knocked over on the truck dock where a rear double doors was. There were footprints that ran off into the neighborhood in the snow. I asked one of the deputies if that was their prints, "no, they were there when we arrived." Humm...

I shook the door with the knob and it was as solid as a rock. BUT, when I pushed on the top of the stationary door, the alarm system went off again. Here the manager was in such a hurry to leave that they failed to secure the top lock on that door. The SO promptly changed their report to an attempted B&E and I was pleased.

How many PDs and SOs falsely categorize alarm calls? If I hadn't pushed on the top of that door, we would never have known. Someone was there that night, they knew it, but it was far easier to classify it as a false because they were unable to duplicate the alarm situation by tugging on the door. That's the tip of the iceberg where it comes to user generated false alarms.

Yes, motions can cause false alarms, especially when the installer installs them in areas where they could experience problems, such as facing glass that is apt to see the sun. Or, by installing a single-technology detector in a hostile environment where false alarms are likely. Even mounting two dual-technology PIR/microwaves too close together can cuase problems if the microwaves are operating on the same frequency.

What about other dealers, what seems to be your biggest false alarm cause?

Al

Reply to
Al Colombo

Really? They must all be in Texas, cause I haven't seen it my way yet.... You'll forgive me if I can't take your word for it...

Reply to
Jackcsg

Video prevention? Last thing.... Al, I hate to say you've blinded by smoke and mirrors, but come on. Intervention is the only "hope" that stops a potential crime. Sure video can record crime, and video is a good tool, but the intervention side of things is what altimately prevents the crime. It's why typical Central Stations call the police. The problem is 99 times out of hundred, the requests for police intervention are based on inacturate/incomplete information.

Absolutely. The ultimate goal. And then everyone strays from that simple concept.

Exactly! Outdoor lighting, and trust me; I understand the limitations, is an area that a lot of dealers don't look at. Even outdoor detection.

That's true. But in some cases there can be a higher level of deterent from both of these technologies.

I believe differently, and have spent the last three years proving otherwise. Detection, Verification, Intervention, Notification if needed.

99.9% false alarm/dispatch free.
Reply to
Jackcsg

Al, that's not intelligent video. I'm talking about software processing to detect humans. I.e. VideoIQ or ObjectVideo. I would have assumed you would have researched the possible trickle down of this technology into residential applications.

Reply to
J. Sloud

Thats fair enough but as an example many Honeywell/Ademco panels came about due to ADT such as the V15P/20P, also ADT use Symphony several years before it was available to anyone else. ADT has a lot of input into what goes into a panel or module, When you spend countless millions in equipment the manufacturers WILL listen.

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Yes, video is used as a tool to deter crime. Look at grocery stores using spot monitors to demonstrate to the public the store's use of video. Would-be criminals at least have to think twice before shoplifting in the store. If they did not intend it to prevent crimes, why bother to use a spot monitor?

The only thing that CS response does is limit the loss because it limits the amount of time that the criminal can spend on site. Once the alarm sounds, he knows he has to get in and get out in 5 or 10 minutes, given that the national average (the last time I heard one) is

15 minutes for police response.

It took me the first 9 or 10 years of my 31 to understand that prevention is the key to a successful installation. Of course, the alarm system by itself is not going to deter every burglar, but when you educate your client in the various other crime prevention techniques, such as deadbolts, outdoor lights, etc., especially CPTED (crime prevention through environmental design), the entire effect as a whole can send a perp down the street to another home who's owner failed to take all the right precautions.

Reading through the rest of your post, it seems like we agree more than we disagree. I"m not sure if I'm just misunderstanding you because of the way I define "intervention," but it's always good to bring these issues forward in such a public venue as this so home and business owners can think about what they're doing or not doing to protect their homes and business places.

Al.

Reply to
Al Colombo

What's ironic is that Honeywell had the same relationship with Radionic's for years. Radionic's dealers had to patiently wait for other manufacturers to come out with the same feature(s) before they released it to other dealers. Guess they learned something...

Reply to
Jackcsg

It has it's good and bad sides but again big bucks gets a manufacturer to do a lot of things and those things will end up in small dealers hands

Reply to
Mark Leuck

One could make that same analogy with a home security system, why would someone burglarize a house with security signs and stickers all over it? Yet they do and In the end a half-wit burglar isn't going to care about signs, stickers or cameras.

Reply to
Mark Leuck

I agree Al. Our terminology is basically the same, with words moved around. I determine the word "intervention" to a presence. Whether that presence is physical, technological, or what some would define as "prevention", it's what we all hope ultimately is a/the deterrent. There are many levels, understanding, and implementation of how it can best be achieved.

Reply to
Jackcsg

Unless the protected areas are behind outdoor chainlink fences, how can you dispatch the police? On the inside of the house, that's quite possible today, I realize. So, are you suggesting that we forgo the electronic alarm system and replace it with intelligent video? Just curious if that's something you would endorse.

Al

Reply to
Al Colombo

Jack...where did you get that info from the USDOJ. I'd like to get some info like that.

Norm

Reply to
Norm Mugford

Yes, there will always be some criminals who believe they can beat the odds. Many of them will break into a home no matter what the homeowner does. But, it's my belief that the their number is far less than those who will decide to go elsewhere. The philosophy of most crime prevention practitioners is to introduce as many hurdles between the would-be criminal and target as possible.

Alarm dealers should consider themselves security consultants and act accordingly. Who better to advise the homeowner on deadbolt locks, outdoor lighting, natural hiding places in their yard, the quality of the doors and window, etc.? When I was in business, I worked to became a locksmith because my commercial clients needed to have the mortise lock on their aluminum frame doors rekeyed when they lost a manager. In those days we also used 7- or 8-pin tubular locks with a trim plate, so I'd change them out as well. I got tired of seeing someone else get this work so I learned to do it myself.

I also established partnerships with other trades, such as a carpenter, electrician, and a company that did glass block windows. When I could, I handled all the arrangements, and when I couldn't I tried to solicit a percentage arrangement with the tradesman so he knew how much I had to have to bring him or her into the picture. If they failed to make good on that arrangement, that was the last job I called them in on a job.

When I established Abbott Fire & Security in Canton, Ohio for a large union electrical company in Ohio (between SDM and SSI), I took every opportunity to sell electrical as well, in the form of outdoor lighting, light poles, etc. I sold them right along side my burglar alarms, access control, and fire alarm systems. That did not happen every day, but it surely did from time to time.

Every little thing you do to slow the perp down will serve to discourage him so he goes right on down the road. And yet, you are correct, there will always be those who won't be discouraged in the least. All we can do is hope these guys overstay their welcome by a minute too long :-).

Al

Reply to
Al Colombo

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enjoy your search....

Reply to
Jackcsg

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