Central Station Cancel Signal

snip RHC Since you don't do locals, and don't require time contracts, what would you do if someone purchased a system, then stopped monitoring service after a couple of months? js

Well. okay, but your service is free. No matter, I knee-jerked that one and didn't think I'd posted it, normally I let them sit in my outbox and most don't see the light of day. Sorry about that, chief, carry on :-)

No, my service is not free; it's built in to my monthly rate...$2 a month for service; $1 a month for warranty. I keep track of all service costs including gas, and I've never yet spent those costs (or even close....)

RHC

I don't normally do work on an hourly basis on alarm systems. But the few times I have done subcontract repairs for other companies, I normally work on a varying rate from $25 to $40 per hour depending upon how well I know the company in question.

Alarm systems are installed and costed by the system. Service work afterwards is built in to the hourly rate. And since I don't do local systems at all, or any other low voltage work of any kind, I don't normally have the occasion to charge for time and materials. The only time I've had to actually calculate rates for labour outside of the monthly fee is to move existing systems from one place to another. I charge $200 to move a residential system and re-install...normally about five to six hours work. A large factory system has to be moved shortly, and it is going to be charged at $200 per man day plus wire and parts. However, since this huge account is going to leave me soon and be taken over by one of the large conglomerates (because of military security requirements mandated by their US owners), I may try to get them to make the switch before I'm forced to do all this work. But since the company coming in charges ridiculous rates of $108 per hour, I can't see that happening....

But when I do locksmithing work, I do charge on an hourly basis...$50 per hour for time worked, plus materials with an appropriate markup.

RHC

Good question ! During selling of the alarm, it is pretty easy to determine if the client intends to continue with the monitoring or not. But I have been wrong three times. In each case, I sent the client a registered letter telling him there is no warranty or any kind, or service on his panel (nor will I service it at an additional price), and that he must tell his insurance company of the cessation of monitoring. Plus, as part of my contract, he agrees to remove my decals when monitoring stops....they belong to me. And since they are exterior mounted decals, I actually make a visit to remove them. However, bottom line, he has paid me a fair and full market price for the system, so I make my profit up front on the alarm itself. I simply dial in and remove all monitoring information, and reset the unit to factory installer code, and turn the TLM and the dialers off.

I've found that in selling high end systems to my particular clientele (who generally are in the two income, higher echelon income bracket), this just doesn't happen. I guess these folks are smart enough to realize their alarm is crippled without proper response, and they probably feel $15 a month is peanuts to pay for a combined package with an ironclad warranty. Interestingly enough, the three people who cancelled within 6 months, were all from Eastern European countries where they don't have monitoring services (or so I'm told).

I lose far more clients from people selling their homes and moving than I do from people simply deciding they don't want monitoring. However, reasonable prices and good service with the first client wins me back about 75% of the new purchasers (which I'm told from other dealer friends is a higher percentage than normal)

Works for me.....

RHC

Yes, I thought about doing that as well; however, I decided against it. I spoke to my lawyer on this point, and as long as I've advised the client via registered mail, I'm totally off the hook liability wise. But your approach is much better actually...might get a few back who otherwise might continue to mickey mouse things. However, it has happened so seldomly, that I choose not to do it.

When I first started in the electronic side of my business, I installed about 50 or 60 "local only" systems. Interesting enough, when the original owners sell the home, I get a good percentage of the new owners coming to me for monitoring services. Or they call me up to ask a question or whatever and I hook 'em up from there.

People don't believe me when I tell them that I turn away more business than I take on; I ONLY do automatic billing; I don't do commercial (unless it's small, and I have the owners home system); I don't work in Quebec; I only do takeovers on DSC or Paradox equipment; I try not to takeover systems of small guys in the business without calling them first to save the sale (the same applies to Protectron with whom I have a gentleman's agreement to advise them first); I don't do any of the "free system" nonsense; I refuse to install the "all in one" mickey mouse squawk box alarms; I don't do DIY anymore, and I pick and choose the clients I do want to take on (most by gut feel...).

Frankly, I'm still more interested in doing the physical security on their homes since I consider it FAR more important in the overall security of their home, and the alarm is a secondary issue (ironically, however, it ends up being the majority of the business revenue coming in since I've grown a lot larger than I had originally planned)

Sometimes it's a strange business world out there. Clearly what works for me, likely wouldn't work for a conventional alarm company (but then, mine is not an alarm company.....)

RHC

That means you're monitoring is 12 bucks a month, since 3 bucks are allocated to worry free service and warranty.

Man...which shipping, taxes, and handling how to you stay afloat...do you pay yourself a salary? Not to mention overhead, and fuel costs for all those service calls you don't charge for...man, one service call a year per account is gonna cost you more than what you collect in gas alone not to mention paying your tech.

Seems way too low for a brick an mortar business.

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I've almost done that too, but seemed a tad vindictive to notify they're insurance. However, when next year comes around and they want a certificate, I just tell them they dont monitor anymore and sometimes they renew based upon ins. discount.

| >> I've found that in selling high end systems to my particular clientele | >> (who generally are in the two income, higher echelon income bracket), | >> this just doesn't happen. I guess these folks are smart enough to realize | >> their alarm is crippled without proper response, and they probably feel | >> $15 a month is peanuts to pay for a combined package with an ironclad | >> warranty. Interestingly enough, the three people who cancelled within 6 | >> months, were all from Eastern European countries where they don't have | >> monitoring services (or so I'm told). | >>

| >> I lose far more clients from people selling their homes and moving than I | >> do from people simply deciding they don't want monitoring. However, | >> reasonable prices and good service with the first client wins me back | >> about 75% of the new purchasers (which I'm told from other dealer friends | >> is a higher percentage than normal) | >>

| >> Works for me..... | >>

| >> RHC | >>

| >>> Since you don't do locals, and don't require time contracts, what would | >>> you | >>> do if someone purchased a system, then stopped monitoring service after | >>> a | >>> couple of months? | >>> js | >>>

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Who does one service call a year per account ? If they do, there's something wrong. The rest I'll reply to you personally with....

RHC

Our local false alarm permits and related ordinances require alarm inspections/service yearly to renew their permits...yes even residential. Some clients strictly adhere to this, some go a little longer...or lie on the permit renewal (i have no control on that).

| > 15 CD = 12 USD | >

| > Man...which shipping, taxes, and handling how to you stay afloat...do you | > pay yourself a salary? Not to mention overhead, and fuel costs for all | > those | > service calls you don't charge for...man, one service call a year per | > account is gonna cost you more than what you collect in gas alone not to | > mention paying your tech. | >

| > Seems way too low for a brick an mortar business. | >

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No such requirement exists here. No permit is required other than a city tax grab for registration of your alarm. Alarmco's do not require specific permits to operate other than normal business licenses. Hell, even locksmiths don't need a licence ! ...(?????)

Most prefer to keep it that way, although there are downsides to it....

RHC

No license for locksmiths? holy camoli batman.

What else is unregulated up thar?

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| > | > 15 CD = 12 USD | > | >

| > | > Man...which shipping, taxes, and handling how to you stay afloat...do | > you | > | > pay yourself a salary? Not to mention overhead, and fuel costs for all | > | > those | > | > service calls you don't charge for...man, one service call a year per | > | > account is gonna cost you more than what you collect in gas alone not | > to | > | > mention paying your tech. | > | >

| > | > Seems way too low for a brick an mortar business. | > | >

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Well fire systems are regulated, but alarm systems are not here in Ontario. In most other provinces of Canada, there is regulation of one kind or another. Next door in Quebec, alarms can only be installed by licensed electricians, and that is of course bulls*it of the highest order, but the unions and "patron politics" runs rampant in Quebec, so look out only for their own interests.

Locksmithing in the other provinces I don't know about, but here in Ontario, we've been lobbying for years for a simple background check....???? Seems nothing happens in Canada until pressure from the newsmedia applied to gutless politicians causes "knee jerk" legislative movement of one kind or another....

RHC

I'm sure everyone has been asked by an end user if they could just buy your alarm sticker or sign, rather than have an alarm installed.

I useually tell them that the stickers are VERY expensive, since they only come with a fully installed alarm system. I'd suspect that everyone else does somesort of the same. Why would you want to give benifit to someone with your sticker if they didn't buy an alarm system from you?

In that same regard, anyone who is "using" my company to commint fraud with their insurance company is NOT welcome to do so. I also make sure that I notifiy insurance companies when an account cancels.

Yep, my alarm decals start at 1500 bucks...they come with a free alarm system.

| | | I'm sure everyone has been asked by an end user if they could just buy | your alarm sticker or sign, rather than have an alarm installed. | | I useually tell them that the stickers are VERY expensive, since they | only come with a fully installed alarm system. I'd suspect that | everyone else does somesort of the same. Why would you want to give | benifit to someone with your sticker if they didn't buy an alarm system | from you? | | In that same regard, anyone who is "using" my company to commint fraud | with their insurance company is NOT welcome to do so. I also make sure | that I notifiy insurance companies when an account cancels. |

too much work, i just wait till the company wants one at renewal time. now if they are reall scumbuckets and owe me money...thats another story.

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| > | >> I've found that in selling high end systems to my particular | > clientele | > | >> (who generally are in the two income, higher echelon income bracket), | > | >> this just doesn't happen. I guess these folks are smart enough to | > realize | > | >> their alarm is crippled without proper response, and they probably | > feel | > | >> $15 a month is peanuts to pay for a combined package with an ironclad | > | >> warranty. Interestingly enough, the three people who cancelled within | > 6 | > | >> months, were all from Eastern European countries where they don't | > have | > | >> monitoring services (or so I'm told). | > | >>

| > | >> I lose far more clients from people selling their homes and moving | > than | > I | > | >> do from people simply deciding they don't want monitoring. However, | > | >> reasonable prices and good service with the first client wins me back | > | >> about 75% of the new purchasers (which I'm told from other dealer | > friends | > | >> is a higher percentage than normal) | > | >>

| > | >> Works for me..... | > | >>

| > | >> RHC | > | >>

| > | >>> Since you don't do locals, and don't require time contracts, what | > would | > | >>> you | > | >>> do if someone purchased a system, then stopped monitoring service | > after | > | >>> a | > | >>> couple of months? | > | >>> js | > | >>>

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why would you want your companies name to be on someone's insurance as providing a service that would decrease their liability and rates if you are not providing that service? Why take the chance that their lawyers might start looking for you if something untoward happened? Sure you were not providing the service but why even give the blood sucking lawyers any itty bitty infintesimal reason to even think about you? As Barney Fife so eloquently said "nip it, nip it in the bud"

Yeah, as I remember they called themselves Red Dog Security. Also sold the barking dog device....

RHC

"Frank Olson" wrote in message news:mPy2f.138580$oW2.19803@pd7tw1no...