Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?

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I'm just a hobby installer and have only used honeywell stuff.
I was reading up on the new lyric system. Apparently you need to be  
setup through alarmnet 360 to even program the thing.

It seems dsc and honeywell are both locking down their systems. I've  
heard even the keypad bus on the dsc panels are encrypted so you cant  
use a 3rd party device like the envisalink. The lyric fwir doesn't even  
have a bell output. Thats flippin ridiculous. Probably to prevent  
someone from using a relay for self monitoring?

I would guess they are also going to lock down future hardwired panels  
like the vista? I would have liked to upgrade to the new six sensors but  
doubt they are ever going to release a receiver for the vista.

It seems they really HATE it when people self monitor and not for the  
right reasons.

I like having a robust alarm system and may end up with a elk panel  
since they seem to be less locked down. I'm also planning to use more  
hardwired sensors so I'm not locked into a proprietary mess.

Many people are switching to ipcamera systems that don't want monthly  
monitoring fee's. With blue iris you can set up different profiles and  
alerts to mimic turning on and off a alarm. Also some cameras now have  
alarm inputs as well that you can hook whatever kind of alarm sensor you  
want up to.

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
Please define what a hobby installer is. Do you install security systems in
 your home just for the fun of it, or perhaps you change them out from time
 to time to see what it would be like for your home?

Or, do you install your 'hobby' systems in other people's homes?

If it is in other people's homes, you are not a hobby installer, but simply
 an unlicensed person who does not appear to know that much at this time.
  

Do you charge others for your hobby? If so, then you are probably going aga
inst the law of the land also.

A licensed security installer takes upon himself or herself the responsibil
ity of protecting a home or a business correctly and efficiently.  

It is nice that you are interested, but I sure do hope that you are not ins
talling for anyone other than yourself.

Just because you know something about them does not make you an installer/t
echnician. Perhaps you should consider working for someone in the field tha
t is licensed and then you would learn all the responsibilities involved in
 the industry ...and the knowledge will come all by itself over the years.




Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On 2/18/2017 10:44 PM, E DAWSON wrote:
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Not to take away from your reply, Bro. Dawson..
But according to my accountant and the IRS,
if your self-employed  and do not make a profit
for x number of years, your employment is considered a Hobby..
Least wise that's what they been telling me for the last 40 years...
;-)

--  
from the desk of:
*Richard Phillips, FAR-601
T.P.E.Security
Kentucky Security
Providence - Madisonville - Nortonville
* (age before beauty, that means I go first)

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
Only for myself and close family. Didn't charge them a penny for the work.

I guess I call it a hobby because I'm a bit more passionate about alarm  
systems than the average home owner. If I had the time I would very much  
like to be trained by a skilled installer. Doubt I would learn much if I  
worked for the "professionals" that just want to slap a all in one unit  
by my front door. I'm mostly interested in hardwired setups.

Alarm companies should be more worried about the simpli junk type kits  
sold on amazon than someone wanting to learn and install a quality  
system their self.

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On 02/19/2017 09:20 AM, Windesmear wrote:
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That's not "the professionals" you refer to.  That is "the mass  
marketers" who are in the "RMR (recurring monthly revenue) business,  
like ADT et al.  Unlike those, the "real" alarm companies take the  
service they provide seriously.  You would learn much from those people.

John Sowden
American Sentry Systems, Inc.
UL Central Station Alarm Company
Service the San Francisco Bay Area Since 1967


Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
Whenever I see the term professional in a advertisement I am cautious.  
The word doesn't mean much and is used by anyone that provides a  
service. That being said most of you here are probably jedi master level  
installers and I'm sure I would learn a lot.

To me it seems honeywell is encouraging these lacking installs with  
there obsession over all in one units. I think the monitoring center  
will send the cops if a disarm signal isn't received after the entry  
delay is activated. Even if the panel is smashed off the wall. I think  
this is good as a last resort but my theory is that some burglars will  
think they have disabled the alarm and be out before anyone arrives anyway.

I don't know if its true but I've heard cops don't take burglar alarms  
serious anymore. Thats why for myself I like to self monitor and turn on  
cams so I can actually see whats going on.

I have glass break sensors on nearly every window, contacts, and pir's  
to back everything up. I like at least the doors and pir units to be  
hardwired. Not sure if I completely trust a glass break sensor though.  
Seems you would need to mount them inside the window frame for best  
reliability. I like to have the alarm on when everyone is asleep and  
know that it would be very difficult for someone to enter without  
triggering it.

I've been broken into once and just recently gave footage to the cops of  
a guy checking cars along with his license plate.


I would guess one of the most important things as a installer would be  
to motivate people to actually use their system.


Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:38:07 PM UTC-5, Windesmear wrote:
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y.
  
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I have to agree with you regarding the term "professional".  

Anyone who decides that they are a professional ...... can.  

Of course, like any home improvement trade, there are those who will pass t
hemselves off as experienced contractors but are not. As is always the case
, consumers doing due diligence is the way to greatly reduce the scam artis
ts. Ask for references, and check them out, check if they are licensed, get
 referrals from other satisfied  consumers. Don't pay the final payment unt
il you are satisfied that the job was done to your satisfaction. The burden
 of finding the best contractor is entirely the responsibility of the consu
mer. Those consumers who get poor workmanship most often have not taken the
 time to completely vet their contractors. They are the people who are resp
onsible for the success of non-professional companies.

However ...... Professionals make their living by plying their trade. If on
ly seems reasonable that they would not be enthusiastic about helping and s
upporting DIY'ers. If someone wants to in stall their own system, fine. But
 why would they expect the professional installers to support them? Why wou
ld they expect manufacturers who's main source of income is from profession
al companies to make it easy for DIY'ers? Although, I see that some of them
 are caving in to the market pressures that companies such as this ridiculo
us Simple Safe who tell lies, half truths and the only standards that they  
comply with are those that they fabricate. This is a perfect example of con
sumers not completely investigating what true security is and perpetrating  
the success of companies like this. Their success places marketing pressure
 on major alarm equipment manufacturers to enter the DiY market much to the
 dismay of professional installers.  

There are interesting times ahead for the professional alarm trade.

With regard to self monitoring, for you to depend upon it totally is a fool
hardy. Connection to a central station along with notification to you is th
e surest way to insure that a response will definitely be made .... even if
 your cell phone is not able to be communicated with.  

By the way, keep in mind that alarm systems are a deterrent and should not  
be categorized as "protection". Any statistics regarding loss due to burgla
ry give the dollar amount of loss that occurs. with and without a working a
larm system. Obviously, losses are smaller when there is a working and used
 alarm system in place.  

There is one thing that you can depend on in all of this.
When seconds count, the police are minutes (usually much more) away.

  

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 3:38:07 PM UTC-6, Windesmear wrote:
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Honeywell has a fairly broad range of security panels the Lyric is but one, they aren't obsessing over anything
  
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You heard wrong

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Watch the nice burglar carry out the widescreen LCD tv is about all you are going to get, good luck getting the cops out

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Depends on the glass break

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Good luck with that its not illegal
  
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Agreed

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 11:20:10 AM UTC-6, Windesmear wrote:
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Working for an alarm company I am not worried at all about the simpli stuff, that's been around for years and hasn't made a dent in the industry, it's always been for a certain market that won't by a standard system anyway

You talk bad about a simpli system yet you are looking at a Lyric? That makes no sense

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
Well said.

I call companies such as ADT, MRC's or Monitoring Revenue Companies. They a
re not security companies. They send only salesman who are only interested  
in getting their commissions. They are not concerned about how secure the c
ustomer will be.

I started out with ADT as an installation manager, actually that was my fir
st job in the security industry. I ran the store from the beginning and I i
nstructed the salesman not to do anything stupid. This was possibly the onl
y ADT facility that was ran by the installation dept. and not the sales dep
t.

I did have one sales guy who told a customer that the one motion that we wo
uld be putting into her home, would cover 2000 s.f., and, if anyone just to
uched the windows outside, the alarm would go off. I am laughing now thinki
ng about it, but I had to inform the customer that it was not true, nor pos
sible.

I must say, he probably was an ex used-car salesman. I think he could have  
convinced that poor lady that just looking at her windows, the alarm would  
go off... The cops would have really been upset with constant alarms at her
 house!


Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:09:49 AM UTC-6, Windesmear wrote:
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You can program and run the Lyric just like you can the standard Lynx although there are better panels out there if you are looking for self monitoring or even setting up an external bell output

As far as the ipcamera systems yea they are great for recording someone taking your stuff but won't do jack for calling the authorities

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:09:49 AM UTC-6, Windesmear wrote:

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DSC, Honeywell, Interlogix, Napco are not in business for home hobby folks they are in business for dedicated installers. If a 3rd party system like Envisalink doesn't work its hardly Honeywell or DSC's fault

You can setup a Z-Wave siren but seriously if you are wanting that the Lyric (or any other self contained system) isn't the best panel anyway  

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Probably not nor should they, Vista is older tech
  
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Their systems are designed for central station monitoring and have been since they started manufacturing panels. If you want self monitoring you should be using someone else
  

Re: Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 10:09:49 AM UTC-5, Windesmear wrote:
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Windesmear, You and are very much the same person LOL. I learned that it wi
ll take the police more than 30 minutes to get to my home when called so I  
gave up on them doing anything of value for me. Burglars will be in and out
 in 5 minutes once the alarm starts screaming anyway. I've got the alarm ho
rns hidden inside the house so when they go off it's so loud you can't stan
d it. I've got a DVR and cameras too. Make sure that your DVR is well hidde
n so it doesn't get destroyed or stolen.

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