Ademco Vista Programming

Shooting alarm panels may seem strange in your neck of the woods but some guys here really like guns and target practice. If you hate a particular brand of panel, why not blast it? The ones I was talking about were Ademco

1023 and Ademco 4080 units. We used to have pictures around the shop before the days of digital photos. Wasn't that much to look at. Just a can with a hole in the middle of it. I'll see if I can find them. I think there are some 4150 and/or Vector 2000 that are going to the firing squad next if they haven't found there way to the dumpster already.

I never said it was okay to do and I didn't do it. You can get the same information almost anywhere with Google and no password. How about these guys then?

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There are many others.

I tried. I still keep his picture in my wallet. It didn't work out. He snores too loud and his feet are way too cold. He'd takes off for months at a time to Brazil and just forget me! (sniff...SOB). I think he had someone else there besides me! Thanks for reminding me of my painful breakup...(whimper). Kind of makes me feel like the last scene in "Gone With The Wind". I need a good cry. Anyone have Richard Simmons' number?

Reply to
Roland Moore
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I must have missed that, too. Seems the only one who heard about it was Bob Worthy. Or could it be that he simply made it up? Naaah! Bob wouldn't lie? Of course he would!

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Frank, If I pirate some music, and Hollywood movies it's ok for me to charge a user fee to my website allowing others to watch them? Is any portion of that user fee being sent to the companies who own the manuals? Members of those websites can also print the manuals too. Who gave these people the right to charge for access to another company's information?

Now for all involved (not directed at Frank but I'll use this same post since I am too lazy to reply to any others) I think RLB publically posting passwords to the Honeywell site (or any other site) is wrong, and done out of spite, but if you guys are so angered by confidential information being doled out then you should take umbrage with the non-Honeywell websites that offer the information too. While we're at it why is nothing said when people here offer to unlock panels that don't belong to them? We are in an industry full of w***es but only one of the hookers gets pimp slapped for being wrong and the other w***es who post here are called "respected contributors". We're in the security field and we turn a blind eye to breaches just because we like the guy who has created the breach.

FIRETEK change-the-ch-to-k wrote:

Reply to
Everywhere Man

Thanks, Roland. I needed a good laugh today. :^)

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Well, from one ho' to another, I hope all is well with you. :^)

Reply to
Robert L Bass

"Robert L Bass" wrote in message news:Ib-dnSero-2GpuXYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

Bob Worthy. Or could it be that he simply made it up?

You didn't receive a cease and desist concerning use of information on your website that they didn't authorize? The reason I ask is because it came right from the horses mouth, standing on the floor at the EHouse Expo, in Orlando, (March 06, I believe) along with the fact that they won't extend warranty to you on returns any longer through distribution (ADI). If this has been corrected since then, great. That is why I simply said , when Roland asked the question, that it was posted earlier this year. I didn't go into any detail. But since you want to bring it up, go back and look for it. If you missed it, that does not equate to a lie. If it is not true, go to the high ranking good folks at Honeywell's distributor, and I am not talking the local branch manager. If you have ANY proof of me lieing about anything at all, post it. You won't because you can't. It is as simple as that. You can deny the C&D ever exsisted, which is fine because you know that no one here would have the actual document. If you want to call it hearsay that is again your choice. Does anyone remember Honeywells, ADIs logo's etc. info disappearing for RBL's site as did his offer for monitoring services, after the State investigator paid him a visit? Something he skated with by the skin of his teeth. RBL knows I know the truth and he hates the fact that I know more about him than he would like, so his only recourse is to say I lie. Post it Robert. Let's see the complaint and the investigators report. I know you have it. Am I lieing about that too? Your so easy!

Reply to
Bob Worthy

In a later post on this thread, Bass says that I lie. So...I will let him answer this question first, but don't hold your breath. Maybe we can come to some conclusion on who actually has a propensity to lie.

Reply to
Bob Worthy

Those w***es are charging $71.25 for a Compass download! I wonder if Honeywell gets any proceeds from that rape.

Reply to
G. Morgan

Probably not even a good "thank you" reach around I'll bet.

Reply to
Roland

Uh huh

I don't have a problem with someone offering the manuals as long as it's okay with the manufacturers, The issue here is public postings of logins to a secure website, did AlpineAlarms do this? No.

You seem to think it's not a big deal

Reply to
Mark Leuck

You're right! I don't think it is a big deal . If what is available behind the door is free, and it is also left outside the door for free, then there is no difference in the end. Perhaps one day Honeywell will use their already secure infrastructure to issue individual logins and put something there on the site worth securing (that isn't already available nearly everywhere else). However that would cost money to administer the site properly and Honeywell might not want to spend that money. Again, I didn't post the login. I said I would not choose to do it. Someone else has a different idea. That is merely his choice. He has his reasons. I don't recall any document that anyone signed (including Bass) that described how to use that password. I have had to sign such documents for other sites access logins. Bass says the reasons are not to hurt anyone but to help. Whether I agree or not is not important. In my view there are only two ways to stop it. One is Bass the other is Honeywell. I'll let one or the other take care of it.

Reply to
Roland

So posting logins to a secure website is okay when some of the stuff inside is also outside? The logic you use is staggering

Then there is no right or wrong, its only a choice

Gosh lets look at the terms of use posted on the site shall we?

"Honeywell International Inc. authorizes you to copy documents published by Honeywell International Inc. on the World Wide Web for personal or non-commercial use only, provided any copy of these documents that you make shall retain all copyright and other proprietary notices contained herein. Except as expressly provided, nothing contained in this paragraph shall be construed as conferring any license or right under any Honeywell International Inc. copyright. No materials available on the Honeywell International Inc. Web site may be stored, transmitted by any means (including but not limited to electronic, mechanical, scanning, photocopying or recording) without prior written permission of Honeywell International Inc. "

I could be wrong but materials might include secure passwords as well as ALL of the manuals, you I imagine will come up with yet another reason why it's okay without really saying it's okay

He can easily email the manuals without giving out logins to secure websites

It sounds like you do agree indirectly, lets recap shall we?

So far it appears you have no problems with giving out logins to secure webpages IF

  1. They use HTTP instead of HTTPS (odd but hey you said it)
  2. Its on another web page available for downloading
  3. They say they are trying to help

4.

  1. Honeywell doesn't give out individual passwords

  1. It's Robert Bass

Again you were the one a while back asked why people slamed RLB, Jim correctly pointed that out so might I suggest you not ask questions like that in the future since you obviously can't seem to handle the answers

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Because some w***es are nice and some are bitches?

Reply to
Jim

I have learned one thing from this. I should not have attempted to point out something so obvious to you. It won't happen again.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Reply to
Jim

It seems to me that you are trying to convince me that the login to the Honeywell site is some exclusive club we as dealers or integrators have all been invited to as some special recognition by Honeywell (or some other manufacturer to their respective site). From that exclusivity we should honor and respect a special trust given to us and never divulge the login, especially publicly (as Bass has done), as that is an ethical lapse to be utterly condemned. If that is the case I hardly know where to begin. I guess the best way is ask you to look at the email you received when you got your GE web site login, since that is another site that uses a common login like Honeywell's. If you read it carefully it is easy to see that the real concern these huge manufacturer's have is being caught up in some lawsuits that would come about by openly posting information directly to consumers. It might be better for the consumers to have direct access to that information in some cases. In some cases not. If these manufacturers gave open access to their web site it might suggest that they were operating under the idea that this was consumer grade product they were selling and not have a layer of legal protection they desire against being subject to certain consumer protection laws. Since the sites with "secure" but yet common logins involve mostly companies that sell through distribution, or worse directly to end users, they need that login. Bass probably makes them nervous too by selling the way he does since their gear is not packaged properly for consumer sale in many cases. So they may treat him one way publicly, but they will always take his money one way or another. Sites like Bosch and others that limit the sale of their equipment to certain dealers, and further limit who dealers can sell to, can and do open their web site and do it without that need or concern for a login. That login is there for their protection from more aggressive consumer laws and other legal limits, it has little to do with us as dealers or integrators. In many cases I feel sorry for the hard working smaller dealer that is trying hard to make ends meet. Many times he is pinched by adverse financial conditions he can't control. He has to struggle to buy product at the best discount he can. Let's see how guys like GE and Honeywell honor that. Do they go out and try to find the dealer that does the best installations, has the best customer satisfaction, or is the most honest, or ethical, or hardworking, or church going, or the best role model or general swell guy type of dealer or integrator? Not only no, but hell no. They want volume dealers and want to tie up those dealers with their product line. Go out and find some of the bigger guys in your area that use one manufacturer and look to see what they are paying for equipment that you buy all the time and know the prices for. I don't think you'll be too happy to see that in some cases it is 50% less or even discounted more from what the best price you ever got for it. How is that possible? Easy, guys like Honeywell go through ADI, Anixter or who ever they can (or go direct) and create special part numbers for dealers and price those parts differently. GE is worse. What about a level playing field? Not for GE vertical integration. With that deal you could be pre-screwed out of a job six months before an RFP is ever dreamed up. Ever feel shafted when a big customer doesn't pay you in 30 days and you get hit with credit hold? By 60 days you're getting collection calls every day from the parts house or manufacturer. It means you can't start you next job or maybe even meet payroll. With GE dealers it's no problem. Need 90 days to pay? No big deal. Need longer for a bigger job? No problem. So big manufacturers are promising anything and everything to dealers or integrators to use their gear exclusively, and thus make the dealer or integrator forget the idea of a dealer's or integrator's job of being brand agnostic and picking out the best equipment he can for his customer. In other words screw the customer, buy from us and we will one way or another buy your conscience. So the same guys that have no ethics to be concerned with are the ones you want me to be concerned with in some way; about a login when ironically they take no action to show they're the least bit concerned about the login themselves? So if you think I should be in any way worried about something that makes you feel special, that Bass has now somehow upset, I don't. When asked I said I don't think what Bass did was a big deal (or any deal really). I would think you might be more concerned about big companies showing and playing favorites behind your back, selling directly to end users, and selling out certain dealers and integrators in favor of other dealers or integrators. By the way who do you think made them God? Wait, I know already, Bass did. Right? For the record I'll say it again:

1) I did NOT post the login 2) I said I would not post the login 3) I don't know what reasons Bass has for posting what he does. Sorry I am not smart enough to judge his business model with the time or interest I have available to do it. If you think that Bass and I are in league to destroy some imagined exclusive club you have conjured up I can't help you. Perhaps I can say this instead. If there are none so blind as those who refuse to see, I'll paint a little mental picture for you. If you want me to post a login to a web site I will (with Bass' permission) tattoo the login on Bass' bare ass on send you the picture complete with me planting a big smooch on it. You can post that where you please. Since you never fail to keep us appraised of Bass' medical condition you might be mindful of the bromide that "The opportunity of a lifetime must be seized within the lifetime of the opportunity".

"Jim" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...

Reply to
Roland Moore

Sorry, but that's just not an option. :^)

Reply to
Robert L Bass

I believe Jim has spent a large amount of time accumulating manuals for security systems around the world. His has a huge "private library" dedicated to a specific industry, and I believe he's entitled to grant membership to whom-so-ever he chooses. If he also chooses to "charge" for that priviledge, that's entirely up to him. There is a cost associated with running a website as extensive as Jim's. As long as he's not *selling* the manuals I see no problem with his trying to recover some of those expenses. I've also seen a number of his responses to individuals requesting information on a specific panel where he simply emails them the info "gratis". It's no more than what I would do for someone requesting a manual for FireLite, Notifier, Edwards, or any other fire alarm system. I just don't have them all conveniently saved to a PDF. Would I give out the programming passwords or the "hacks"? Not on your nelly.

I don't believe what Bass did was "right" either. I'm certain he didn't ask Honeywell's permission to post (or otherwise transmit) the login information to all and sundry that ask (or to even volunteer to supply it whenever he feels like it). He does not "represent" (or act as an authorized agent for) Honeywell or any of the other manufacturers whose products he "shills". He uses all sorts of lame excuses to support what he does, but what it all really boils down to is his lack of ethics and the fact that he's nothing more than an "installer wannabee" with a huge chip on his shoulder. I've seen his type before as I'm sure you have as well. He's the guy that shows up at the alarm association meetings complaining about having to respond to AC power failure signals when the central station receiver he has to move from his "office" to his bedside nightstand goes off at 2:00AM.

Reply to
FIRETEK

Yeah... someone viewing it would probably misunderstand (even if you put in on the opposite cheek from the one with "Angela" on it).

Reply to
Frank Olson

That's a fairly useless exercise. Bass has never been able to prove anyone here is either a "liar" or a "clerk". He'll simply continue to hurl insults at you in the sure and certain hope that if he repeats them enough times, someone will actually start believing him.

Reply to
FIRETEK

You owe me a new monitor!

Reply to
FIRETEK

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