Access Control Project with a Twist

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Hey Guys,

I have a potential project that is bending my brain a bit.

A customer wants to set up an entrance door for controlled access
to the building.  There is a double door but just one will be
converted to Electrified Panic Hardware.  Plan on using a
Access Control System and install a couple of cameras.
One outside and one inside lobby.

Because of the mixed usage some will have keyfobs, some will have an
access code.  So, a reader with a keypad will be installed.

Here is the twist.  They want the ability for those without a fob or
a code to make a phone call to an individual cell phone and that
individual will then talk to them and view the camera and then
through a "app" on there phone press a key that will unlock the
door allowing access.

Oh, this is for a Church.  I KNOW, I KNOW!!  I already know where this
will be going.  Having a (free)meeting on Wednesday.  I KNOW, I KNOW!!

First I don't know of a system app that will do this easily.  I was
wondering if any of you's guys had a thought or two??

BTW I cut my 1 month vacation short.  I have too much work on the table
to just walk away for such a long period of time.  :-)  I did sleep in
yesterday for an extra hour.  That will have to qualify in some way.

Thanks for any input.

Les





Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 at 11:16:47 AM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:
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Hi Les

Yeah, You can use this  
https://www.amazon.com/3-Pack-Sonoff-Switch-Wireless-Control/dp/B075CC9J2W/
ref=asc_df_B075CC9J2W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=2165391472
62&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=164658497865770392&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqm
t=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004493&hvtargid=pla-36
6187523745&psc=1

to control This  
https://www.altronix.com/library/pdf/installation_instructions/6062.pdf

Since the internet relay doesn't have a momentary function, when you activa
te the relay, a change in state trips the altronix relay which you set the  
timer to open a contact for a specified period of time to deactivate the ma
g lock.  

This might cause some confusion because sometime the internet relay will be
 in the off state and sometime it will be in the on state depending upon ho
w the last user left it. But ----- you will have to determine how smart you
r customer is to explain this to.

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 at 7:52:27 PM UTC-5, Jim Davis wrote:>  
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W/ref=asc_df_B075CC9J2W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=21653914
7262&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=164658497865770392&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hv
qmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004493&hvtargid=pla-
366187523745&psc=1
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vate the relay, a change in state trips the altronix relay which you set th
e timer to open a contact for a specified period of time to deactivate the  
mag lock.  
Quoted text here. Click to load it
be in the off state and sometime it will be in the on state depending upon  
how the last user left it. But ----- you will have to determine how smart y
our customer is to explain this to.

By the way Les, I've never done this before. It's just something I've thoug
ht about and searched for. You can investigate it further. You may come up  
with a better idea

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/23/2020 7:56 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Thanks Jim,

I can see how that might work one time but then again becomes a
big question.  I am sure I can jury rig something that would
maybe do the job.  But I seriously don't want to sell it and
put my name on it.

What I was hoping is that there was a access control system that
would have this kind of feature built in to a control app.

It was mentioned to me today that Alarm.com has a Access Control
package of some sort that might do it.  Something I need to
investigate further.

BTW I just loaded the app on my phone to take a look.
Just reading the service agreement and privacy policy
is a bit.......................  Well let's just say
I cancelled and deleted the app.  I actually have
no need for it at this time so what would be the point.

I do see the possibilities for experimenting and such.
But not for this project.

Again thanks for the interesting input.

Les



Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 at 9:14:37 PM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:
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9J2W/ref=asc_df_B075CC9J2W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=21653
9147262&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=164658497865770392&hvpone=&hvptwo=
&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004493&hvtargid=p
la-366187523745&psc=1
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f
ctivate the relay, a change in state trips the altronix relay which you set
 the timer to open a contact for a specified period of time to deactivate t
he mag lock.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ll be in the off state and sometime it will be in the on state depending up
on how the last user left it. But ----- you will have to determine how smar
t your customer is to explain this to.
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hought about and searched for. You can investigate it further. You may come
 up with a better idea
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Coincidently, I have a customer who has asked me to look into a small acces
s control system for him also. One with an app.  

I've made it a policy to not do telephone systems and access control system
s because, being it's just me doing the installation AND service, I don't f
eel that I would be able to service these technologies in a timely manner t
o serve my customers. If these types of systems go down, they require insta
nt response. I can't provide that.

Anyway, this customer is very tech savvy and if I spec it out and install i
t he is willing to maintain and service it or live with the fact that I may
 not be able to respond quickly.  

I am presently having a conversation with the following company which I fou
nd doing a Google search. You may find what you are looking for here also

www.openpath.com

Located in California however, which could be a potential problem.

  

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/24/2020 2:12 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Thanks Jim,

I looked at the site.  From what I can see of the mega advertising
glitter it looks like something that might work.  This shows promise.

However, for me I need to see more details.  Maybe I will make contact
depending on how the meeting goes with the customer on Wednesday.

Thanks for the tip.

Les



Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/24/2020 2:12 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Had the meeting today.

No remote access.
No cameras to interface
Just a standard prox reader and keypad for access.

The brain can relax.  YEA!!!

Les



Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/26/2020 8:38 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
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Thanks for the input!!!

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 at 9:14:37 PM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:
Quoted text here. Click to load it
9J2W/ref=asc_df_B075CC9J2W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=21653
9147262&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=164658497865770392&hvpone=&hvptwo=
&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9004493&hvtargid=p
la-366187523745&psc=1
Quoted text here. Click to load it
f
ctivate the relay, a change in state trips the altronix relay which you set
 the timer to open a contact for a specified period of time to deactivate t
he mag lock.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
ll be in the off state and sometime it will be in the on state depending up
on how the last user left it. But ----- you will have to determine how smar
t your customer is to explain this to.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
hought about and searched for. You can investigate it further. You may come
 up with a better idea
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I called ADI Tech assistance and they said that the only non-cloud system c
ontrollable with an app that they knew of was Paxton.  

I told them the job requirements and they said they would send me a quote.  
Get this now, --------- so for 4 doors the cost was over $4,000.00 ! ! ! !
Wadayakidinme !!!!!!  

What customer is going to pay that ---- plus labor for a four door access c
ontrol system?  

Unfreekinbelievable ! ! !

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/24/2020 7:09 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Jim,

LOL  I stopped dealing with ADI quite sometime ago.  I was quoted
a price on a specific item.  $1400.

I then called the Mfg. Tech Support and I think I ended up talking to
someone higher up.  I was asking some specific questions about the
product.  He answered very well and in English.  He then said
that the unit I was asking about was priced at $960. for dealers.
WHAT!!!

So I called back ADI and questioned the person that quoted me $1400.
And then told her what I was told be the Mfg.  She said,
"Well he should not have told you that."  Put me on hold for about
2 minutes and came back with "We will match that price".  WHAT!!

I called another Distributor and was quoted $960. off the top.

I then placed my order.  Done Deal!!!

I only call ADI now when I need something specific for a Ademco item.
Which does not happen very often.  Last was about 10 months ago.

Les




Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/24/2020 5:09 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
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Its been a while since I installed any new access control, but that's  
probably only a little high.  I used to estimate $2k per door when ball  
parking to see if a customer had the budget to work up an actual quote.  
Of course that was $2K installed.  Not $2K in hardware.  Most was a  
little less, but high security, with redundancy, anti pass back, etc  
sometimes cost more.  Specialty doors, adding structure to support  
controllable locking hardware and other piddly ass details often bumped  
that up a little more.  Little things like welding a handle on a gate I  
just threw in, but cutting a gate apart and welding in a box to mount a  
strike, and doing the same for the lockset takes some time.  Of course  
if they have a panic bar then you have to add screen or sheet to prevent  
reach through.  Its not hard for access control to cost a lot eve if you  
have a modest hourly rate.



Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/23/2020 9:16 AM, ABLE1 wrote:
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MAYBE.....


"World's Best Doorbell Phone"

Access module, dialer module, and maybe the long ring time module.

No ap needed.  I did this a very very long time ago.

I used to buy the stuff from Mike Sandman, but the last few pieces I  
bought came from ADI.

For good security and easy operation trip a log only zone on teh panel,  
and shunt the anti pass back (tailgater) zone on the access door.


Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/25/2020 4:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Hi Bob,

Yes, I have actually used the "Door Bell Phone" thing a number of years
ago.  Worked quite well for the customer in a small house.

I have purchased a number of unusual things from Mike Sandman as well
only because it did what is was designed for and most important, it  
worked.

For this project my first question is going to be: What is your budget??
The answer may put the kibosh to the whole thing very quickly.

I will know more in the morning. :-)

Les

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/25/2020 6:55 PM, ABLE1 wrote:

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You know if you donate it then its tax deductible right?


Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/26/2020 2:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
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Bob, you are such a funny guy!!
Thanks for the smile.
First one today!!

Les

Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On Wednesday, February 26, 2020 at 4:37:29 PM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:
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??
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It must be church week. Had one of my customers, a Baptist Church call and  
tell me they needed a service call. Get this now ---- They have a Napco 800
 control panel I installed 36 years ago. Visonic motion detectors. Only thi
ng I've ever been back for is to fix a door contact that had gone bad. Neve
r any false alarms. Any way, when I get there there's no green light on the
 keypad. It seems that the keys must have been getting hard to press and th
ey pushed the keypad printed circuit board back into the wall. I told him t
hey obviously don't make the system any more and simply due to it's age it'
s likely better to replace the main panel and keypad with a new rather then
 putting money into this one which will soon likely fail anyway. I gave him
 the price and got the typical pained look in return. The pastor said that  
anything over $500.00 had to be approved by the/a committee and the next me
eting wasn't for a few weeks. I said what if I billed you $400.00 a month u
ntil it was paid? His face lit up He said he'd never thought of that and we
 shook on the deal.

They've always been pretty good payers so I'm thinking it'll work out ok. I
 was surprised that there was no attempt at any haggling. I thinking that m
y payment idea took him by surprise and he forgot his routine :-D



  


Re: Access Control Project with a Twist
On 2/26/2020 11:55 PM, Jim Davis wrote:
> On Wednesda
y, February 26, 2020 at 4:37:29 PM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:

>> On 2/26/2020 2:48 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On

 2/25/2020 6:55 PM, ABLE1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> For this p
roject my first question is going to be: What is your
budget??
>>>
>>> You know if you donate it then its

tax deductible right?
>>>
>>
>> Bob, you are such a
 funny guy!!
>> Thanks for the smile.
>> First one t
oday!!
>>
>> Les
>  
>  
>  
>  
> It must be churc

h week. Had one of my customers, a Baptist Church call
 and tell me they needed a service call. Get this now
---- They have a Napco 800 control panel I installed 3
6 years ago. Visonic motion detectors. Only thing I've
 ever been back for is to fix a door contact that had
gone bad. Never any false alarms. Any way, when I get
there there's no green light on the keypad. It seems t
hat the keys must have been getting hard to press and
they pushed the keypad printed circuit board back into
 the wall. I told him they obviously don't make the sy
stem any more and simply due to it's age it's likely b
etter to replace the main panel and keypad with a new
rather then putting money into this one which will soo
n likely fail anyway. I gave him the price and got the
 typical pained look in return. The pastor said that a
nything over $500.00 had to be approved by the/a commi
ttee and the next meeting wasn't for a few weeks. I sa
id what if I billed you $400.00 a month until it was p
aid? His face lit up He said he'd never thought of tha
t and we shook on the deal.
>  
> They've always been
 pretty good payers so I'm thinking it'll work out ok.
 I was surprised that there was no attempt at any hagg
ling. I thinking that my payment idea took him by surp
rise and he forgot his routine :-D
>  
 
Jim,
 
LOL
 That is what a good salesman would do.
It would have
 crossed my mind. Duhhhh
 
Good Job!!  Congrats!!
 

Les
 


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