45. Professionals always say that the latest wireless alarm system

He can't count. He doesn't listen. He can't answer. And...ifn youse tawk streetawk he has nofreekinidear what yer sayin

| > Professionals always say that the latest wireless alarm system have | > all kind of manufacturer unsupported, unspecified features who avoid | > and detect RFI... | >

| > Good, two questions arise: | > - what shall be done with the old sailor (systems)? | > - why are those pro's imaginative features not documented, supported | > and warranted by the manufacturer? | > Where is the documentation support who state that RFI has no effect | > or will warn that typical type of system failure after hours or so? | |

Professionals always say that the latest wireless alarm system have all kind of manufacturer unsupported, unspecified features who avoid and detect RFI...

Good, two questions arise:

- what shall be done with the old sailor (systems)?

- why are those pro's imaginative features not documented, supported and warranted by the manufacturer? Where is the documentation support who state that RFI has no effect or will warn that typical type of system failure after hours or so?

What's that got to do with anything?. Dumb question. Have you got a color television or a black and white one?. I bet its color and I bet sometime in the past you or your family had a black & white one. What did you do with the black and white one?.

They usually are documented, supported and warranted. The documentation states that jamming is detected and specifies how it operates and under what circumstances (there is your documentation), the product is supported and that includes the features of the product (there's your support) and unless your product is a cheap knock-off it will come with a warrenty (there's your warranty). Paul, why don't you find a panel that has jamming detection and download the manual or talk to a technical sales rep. They usually answer all questions with coutesy.

Who said that RFI has no effect?. I have always said that any suitable jamming signal is detected and reported. This is not 'no effect'. On the contrary. If RFI was present then you would not want 'no effect'.

Hours?. What standard specifies 'hours' as an acceptible level of security?. No. I understand that you are based in Europe and unless your specific country does not follow EN50131 or a similar derivative then even at the worst grade level, jamming should be reported to the user & central station when jamming occurs for 30 seconds in a rolling minute. Read the standards.

You expect him to *read*???

When you have a car where the brakes don't work, throw it away. When an alarm system is outdated and the newer once "are proven" to be better for RFI, throw them away or better go wired.

I have always said that detection is "maybe possible" with that kind of thing, it need to be "justified and supported by the manufacturers" specifying the conditions where/how/delay it detect.

Can you specify what item of the EN50131 specify that it test:

- transmitter voluntary generated interferences with unreasonable signal strength ON the alarm frequency and

- not test the allowed internal generated signal levels produced by other equipments who conform to the maximum authorized stray signals?

Speak English. If you are asking how is it tested then that's a whole document on its own. However I can tell you from experience that apart from testing and generating a jamming signal throughtout the whole tested spectrum as part of RFI immunity tests, the test houses ask you to provide an identical product to that being tested BUT that the identical product is set to permanent transmit mode. In this way the test house can be assurred that the jamming signal is at exactly the same frequency. Of course, they check it using a suitable spectrum analyser to make sure no-one is trying to pull a fast one. The test checks that the detectors and receivers cannot receive during the test. This is a simple thing to do. The test then records how the equipment deals with the jamming and this is checked against the grade that the equipment has been submitted for. Finally the jamming signal is removed and the EUT is re-tested to ensure that operation resumes as normal.

Again, your question makes no sense to me. Your English is very bad here. I think your trying to ask how is th eequipment tested to ensure that it continues to perform correctly when other normal equipment is in the immediate vicinity?. If that is your question then all you have to do is read the standards. I guess from your questions that you don't have any copies of the appropriate documents. It seems very strange to me that you spout on about RFI and alarm equipment, yet you have no working knowledge of how security products are tested and expected to perform in todays market place. I believe I have given you the answer to this one before but just in case you forgot again... 868Mhz has strict usage and band occupancy rules. The rules specific to band occupancy states that the equipment must not use more than 1percent of the band. This is tested at test houses very simply and can be seen and measured on suitable equipment. If other equipment is operating in the vicinity on the exact same frequency then this equipment will also be subject to the same rules. All devices on the band use a method whereby they 'listen' before they transmit. If other transmissions from other equipment is detected then the equipment holds off and tries again 1% of the band later. This allows a theoretial 100 pieces of equipment on the same band in the same area transmitting at almost the same time. The methos generally used also uses some of the 'hold-off' and retry methods used in Ethernet which is often described as RF over a wire. We all know that Ethernet is pretty reliable and so the same methods used in wireless work quite nicely.

Paul, if you have any EN5031 or other standards questions I suggest you purchase a copy of the relevant documents yourself. I could answer your questions all day but I get the impression that no matter what I or anyone else tells you, you will ignore it or ask som eother dumb question.

In fact why don't you go out and purchase a brand new state of the art wireless system from a reputable manufacturer and see for yourself just how good they are these days. If I was you I'd go for 868MHz and prefferably

2-way. Then try to break it. You'll find jamming detection works a treat and all of your misconceptions about wireless unfounded. Don't buy cheap crap. You get what you pay for. You pay peanuts, you get peanuts.

Poor guy... "Spelfouten zijn niet gecorrigeert. Dit is voor JEy die het verbeteren hiervan tot levenstaak ziet".

RFI is NOT part of immunity testing, what you say is EMC testing. I have already mentioned that, there is no RFI test for certification..

You think different? Don't mind to Post the extracted part where it is mentioned.

This is just semantics. If all that is left for you to argue is the choice of letters used then this is the end of the thread as far as I am concerned. I was attempting to write so that you would understand. As part of the immunity tests carried out for EMC legislation the equipment is tested for immunity over a wide frequency range. This is often described as RFI = Radio Frequency Interference when the equipment fails. I have been open field EMC testing on several occasions and it is referred to as passing or failing RFI even though it is part of EMC immunity tests. It's a choice of words. Both work and are understood by most.

is there a way to strangle someone through cyperspace? reading paulie's posts can drive ya to drink

It looks like Pauls almost got it down.

Doug L

Whatever you do Roger, don't answer this question. He won't understand and any response you give him will only serve to form the basis of his next "RFI Post" (I believe he's up to 411 now)... Don't make it 412!!!! :-))

Amazing, you say that RFI test = part of EMC testing... Surprising.

Can you mention what part of EMC testing covers RFI? What's certified test equipment is required to do what YOU CALL RFI tests or is it the same certified general coverage generators and/or power line test equipment?

Awww... c'mon, Crash... Paul's entertaining... sort of like listening to a dentist's drill... You get used to it after awhile... We just installed a CCTV system in a dentist's office... After workin' there all day, that "z-zwww-e-e-e-e-eee--eeeee" sound no longer sets my teeth on edge... :-))

No one speaks his language.

Bob

"Robert E. Wijnberg" wrote in news:435a61d0$0 $11063$ snipped-for-privacy@news.xsall.nl:

I assume that Robert Winjberg is the same as pull@shoot and he's trying to publicize his original posts by posting more garbage?

Lot of nut-jobs on the net, huh?

VAL DOOD IDIOOT EN SODEMIETER EENS OP

No I'm not