3G radios/CDMA sunset

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 11:55:52 PM UTC-5, Hogan wrote:


Sure it is an issue, replacing with LTE communicators is the only option

On 9/8/2019 10:40 PM, mleuck wrote:


With all the other "stuff" that I do, I now have to write
a letter to my customers on 3G explaining that they will have
to spend some dollars to continue with there current plan.

Writing the letter, for me, is a big challenge in itself!!

A volunteer with good writing skills to handle this would
be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Les

On 9/8/2019 10:13 PM, ABLE1 wrote:

It would be wonderful if the users of cells for alarm reporting got the  
same attention that 911 users get..
Cell companies are REQUIRED to maintain receivers at every cell tower to  
allow older (ie... any) cell phone to access 911 services..
Why not for alarm cell transceivers.
((( just saying )))

--  

*Rocky T. Squirrel, esq.*

On 9/8/2019 11:36 PM, RTS wrote:


I did not know that................
But maybe, because "WE" are not a government entity??

Les

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 11:13:58 PM UTC-4, ABLE1 wrote:

that they are worried about, and what steps or solutions that you may have  
taken or are contemplating as a solution. There is only about 220 million o
f them in the US.

n
Dear customer,

As we all experience now days, old technology is constantly being replaced  
with new, Seems like we just get used to our new cell phones and a new one  
is being advertised.

Likewise, in the alarm busines, we are subject to the advances that the cel
l phone providers make with their technologies.  

You presently have a cellular radio installed at your (home/business) using
 a technology that will soon be subject to being replaced by cellular provi
ders with a newer better service. As evidenced by past performance, the cel
lular service for your device will become less and less available until the
 announced "sunset" date arrives. I will be contacting you over the next (c
ouple of days, weeks, months) to discuss what options are available to help
 you though this transition to newer updated technology.  

As always, thank you for your business and loyalty through the years. It's  
been a pleasure serving you.

On 9/11/2019 12:25 PM, Jim Davis wrote:


WOW!!  I couldn't said it better.

Thanks Jim!!  I owe you a big one.

I was having trouble revising the letter I wrote
when 2G got the sunset back in 2015.  To mostly the
same customers.

This does give me a fresh start and is most appreciated.

You made my day.  After battling with the sprinkler
guys and AHJ's ALL day, this certainly was timed perfectly.

KUDO's and ATTABOY's to you Jim!!!

Thanks!!

Les

Wow!

The letter example was very diplomatic and well-versed. It certainly should make the customers somewhat more at ease as they are reading the notice. Very smooth! Definitely a 100+ grade.

Hogan

Awww Shucks guys. Twarnt nuffin!

Well, I did a little studying and research, as I had figured that there was
 a lot of smoke/mirrors involved as well as hype in regards to the coming 5
G.

1. Yes, 3G is going away and Verizon's date is end of December, 2022; while
 ATT's date appears to be early 2022. Now this is only for existing radios  
already online, not new radios.

2. There are billions of dollars involved here for the selling of the new t
echnology hardware, and there is also of lot of false end dates perpetrated
 in order to sell, sell, sell new hardware.

3. 5G will arrive to the masses someday, but not as fast as it has been por
trayed by persons who are in the business of selling.

4. Verizon is the only carrier that actually has 5G deployed and that is in
 -2- cities in the US. Yes, 2 whole cities, and only in certain areas of th
ose cities.

5. 4G LTE phones will not work on 5G. 5G phones are to be backward compatib
le since it is going to take a lot of time (as in many years) and money to  
completely switch to 5G. So, for those who think that they are insured by g
oing to LTE, are mistaken.

6. 2G is still existing for specific devices and uses, so 3G in some form w
ill still be in use also past "the date", again for specific devices.

7. There is a new company who has spent a lot of money developing a device  
that plugs into an outlet, which converts the 3G signals of the premise rad
io into 4G signals out to the 'Expanse'. A converter! Not a well known fact
 as there is a lot less money involved for the 'End of the 3G World' peddle
r folks. And yes, it is made for alarm panels. The technology is 3G to 4G c
onversion. It is kind of like taking AM radio signals and just converting t
hem to FM. Now everyone knows that AM to FM conversion is not rocket scienc
e. Well neither is 3G to 4G. There is just a lot of licensing and fees and  
time involved. A company called Cellbounce at cellbounce.com is doing just  
that. Rather than give you more facts, just go there and read it for yourse
lf.

The founder is Mike Lamb who came up with Street Smart. He made 175 Wireles
s products for Honeywell in Security and HVAC; Founder of Secure Wireless a
nd Advanced Bridging Technologies. Designed over 250 wireless products for  
DSC/Tyco, GE, UTC, 2GIG, Nortek, Vivint. Founded Ecolink and designed produ
cts for Comcast, RING, Pella, and has 27 Patents.

I'd say he probably knows what he is doing...

8. Alula is claiming that their newest radios will be able to 'evolve' with
out having to buy some newer technology at a yet further date in the future
. That is what I was told in a telephone conversation with someone very hig
h up in the company. That will need much further evaluation and investigati
ng.

The moral of the story is this, I am not jumping on any bandwagon quickly,  
so that I can rationally assess all of the available options based on real  
technical information, devoid of sales' lines and tactics.

Shoot, I had chosen CDMA radios some years ago, as I mistakenly assumed tha
t CDMA-Code Division Multiple Access, would be impervious to end-of-life ob
soletion.  

Anyone have any further information or available solutions?

On 9/14/2019 1:11 AM, Hogan wrote:


Hogan,

Thanks for the extra input.
Concerning the CellBounce stuff that is not a reality (as yet??)
I wonder if it is just a lot of smoke and mirrors as well.
Like this link.

https://mrprolock.com/cellbounce-solves-massive-3g-cdma-sunset-problem-for-alarm-industry/cellbounce-solves-massive-3g-cdma-sunset-problem-for-alarm-industry-2/

Click on the picture and be sure to read the fine print.  LOL

I realize that it may be a bit early on this CellBounce thingie.
It would be great (maybe) if it will be a reality.
The first question will be; At what price??

Then if one group has supposedly figured out how to do it there
will be others that will claim the same and muddy the waters.

Then the other consideration is that it appears to be a just
plug it in device.  (Consumer Ready Install)  Was noted some
where it is to have battery backup.  What would be reasonable
for the battery life??  How big a battery which has to do with
the overall physical size of the wall wort.

Then where to place it on the property that will give good cell
connection!!  Basement -- 1st Floor -- 2nd Floor -- Attic -- Antennas

Till it is all said and done, it might be better to just change
out the existing to a 4G/LTE and be done with it.

Just my two cents (at this point)  And it is early.................

Later,

Les

Hi Les,

Yes, I did see the small print that the actual device will be different. I  
am guessing that the actual device will be bigger and probably using the en
tire 2 outlets. There are antennas that will either have to be concealed or
 protruding from the device. The battery backup will take up some room and  
will need access for it to be replaced every 2-4 years. It would probably b
e the size of a large network extender module.

The best location would either be the same floor or higher, definitely not  
lower. There will have to be an easy way to check the signal strength of th
e device at setup, as well as a relatively and equally easy way to pair the
 original 3G radio to the device.  After all, there are myriads of cell sig
nals bouncing around any given area at any given time. The Mac address will
 probably be the only way to pair the devices.

Yes, changing out the radio would be the best way but, there is the fact th
at there may be a lot of accounts lost to customers that do not want to pay
 for the cost of a new radio and its installation charge.

So, in the short and long run, affluent customers would probably be easier  
to convince to pay for radio upgrades. In regards to the other typical not-
as-affluent section/type of customers, they may probably opt to stop the se
rvice entirely. So, having both options, seems to be a good thing.

The one thing that is not discussed on their website, is the cost of the ne
w 4G line. Of course, the 3G line will not be a cost anymore, as it will on
ly be transmitting locally to the 4G converter. Therefore, your present pro
vider will be receiving 4G signals.  

And yes, it is early, but that depends upon how many 3G radios that a compa
ny is contemplating on having to replace. The large nationwide companies ar
e in a race from what I've read, and may need an extension of time from the
 cellular providers.

Hogan

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 8:16:13 AM UTC-5, ABLE1 wrote:

 was a lot of smoke/mirrors involved as well as hype in regards to the comi
ng 5G.

hile ATT's date appears to be early 2022. Now this is only for existing rad
ios already online, not new radios.

ew technology hardware, and there is also of lot of false end dates perpetr
ated in order to sell, sell, sell new hardware.

 portrayed by persons who are in the business of selling.

s in -2- cities in the US. Yes, 2 whole cities, and only in certain areas o
f those cities.

atible since it is going to take a lot of time (as in many years) and money
 to completely switch to 5G. So, for those who think that they are insured  
by going to LTE, are mistaken.

rm will still be in use also past "the date", again for specific devices.

ice that plugs into an outlet, which converts the 3G signals of the premise
 radio into 4G signals out to the 'Expanse'. A converter! Not a well known  
fact as there is a lot less money involved for the 'End of the 3G World' pe
ddler folks. And yes, it is made for alarm panels. The technology is 3G to  
4G conversion. It is kind of like taking AM radio signals and just converti
ng them to FM. Now everyone knows that AM to FM conversion is not rocket sc
ience. Well neither is 3G to 4G. There is just a lot of licensing and fees  
and time involved. A company called Cellbounce at cellbounce.com is doing j
ust that. Rather than give you more facts, just go there and read it for yo
urself.

eless products for Honeywell in Security and HVAC; Founder of Secure Wirele
ss and Advanced Bridging Technologies. Designed over 250 wireless products  
for DSC/Tyco, GE, UTC, 2GIG, Nortek, Vivint. Founded Ecolink and designed p
roducts for Comcast, RING, Pella, and has 27 Patents.

without having to buy some newer technology at a yet further date in the fu
ture. That is what I was told in a telephone conversation with someone very
 high up in the company. That will need much further evaluation and investi
gating.

ly, so that I can rationally assess all of the available options based on r
eal technical information, devoid of sales' lines and tactics.

 that CDMA-Code Division Multiple Access, would be impervious to end-of-lif
e obsoletion.

r-alarm-industry/cellbounce-solves-massive-3g-cdma-sunset-problem-for-alarm
-industry-2/


It would add another point of potential failure, still might be interesting
 and I'd think not that hard to implement

Hi Mark,

I believe that I was meaning radios that have never been online yet, such a
s the 3G CDMA radios from Alula. I think that they can be put online only u
ntil the end of this year.

Alula is supposed to have the ability to go to 5G when it arrives, that is  
for their newest radios. It will operate on 4G, and with a software upload,
 with be 5G compatible. That is what my ears heard on the phone, but I will
 confirm it first on paper.

This is what I meant by taking time to get the right product that will last
 past the cyclic 2G to 3G to 4G to 5G.....  Investing in the right long ter
m product is much better.  

I was not meaning their 3G radios being able to do 4G.

The 2G and 3G reference that will probably be around longer is all the mill
ions of electric meters, gas meters, traffic controls, ATMs, vending servic
es, OnStar & similar, etc. Think of the amount of labor hours just for thos
e, never mind the cost.

So, for alarm cellular radios, I am looking for a device that is 4G and wil
l be able to go 5G. It is much like the newer cellphones that are 4G & also
 5G ready. That type of alarm radio equipment will most probably ensure tha
t the customer turnover rate may equal the cellular equipment retirement sp
an.  

This way, Les may not have to send as many letters to his customers next ti
me around!  

Hogan

On 9/16/2019 1:20 AM, Hogan wrote:



LOL

Actually, now given the current update that the Sunset isn't till 2022
I may not be mailing any letters.  I had read that it was going to be
the end of 2019.  Hence, the pressure, now the pressure is off and it
may end up being someone else with the chore.  Time will tell.

Les

On Mon Sep 16 07:49:23 2019 ABLE1  wrote:

ny letters to his customers next time around!

 Sunset isn't till 2022

ead that it was going to be

he pressure is off and it

.  Time will tell.



End of 2022 is the current tentative target date
 as I understand it. But given the COVID-19 fias
co I fully expect them to push it into something
 like 2024.
  

On Saturday, September 14, 2019 at 12:11:41 AM UTC-5, Hogan wrote:

as a lot of smoke/mirrors involved as well as hype in regards to the coming
 5G.

le ATT's date appears to be early 2022. Now this is only for existing radio
s already online, not new radios.

Not sure what you mean by this it's going away for ALL radios period, depen
ding on the provider you may or may not be able to register any 3G radios

For example Alarm.com shut off 3G activations June 30's and will end servic
e until February 2022, New CDMA radios can still be registered for now  

Canada and Puerto Rico are exempt and they have no sunset date at this time


 technology hardware, and there is also of lot of false end dates perpetrat
ed in order to sell, sell, sell new hardware.

By who? the carriers have been pretty up front about it


ortrayed by persons who are in the business of selling.



in -2- cities in the US. Yes, 2 whole cities, and only in certain areas of  
those cities.

That's because it has much shorter range and spotty coverage and the few ph
ones that have it often overheat when using it, the technology at least on  
our side isn't quite mature yet

ible since it is going to take a lot of time (as in many years) and money t
o completely switch to 5G. So, for those who think that they are insured by
 going to LTE, are mistaken.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for 5G on security systems
  

 will still be in use also past "the date", again for specific devices.

Not sure how, maybe if they are T-Mobile and they are killing it next year


e that plugs into an outlet, which converts the 3G signals of the premise r
adio into 4G signals out to the 'Expanse'. A converter! Not a well known fa
ct as there is a lot less money involved for the 'End of the 3G World' pedd
ler folks. And yes, it is made for alarm panels. The technology is 3G to 4G
 conversion. It is kind of like taking AM radio signals and just converting
 them to FM. Now everyone knows that AM to FM conversion is not rocket scie
nce. Well neither is 3G to 4G. There is just a lot of licensing and fees an
d time involved. A company called Cellbounce at cellbounce.com is doing jus
t that. Rather than give you more facts, just go there and read it for your
self.

Website doesn't give anything specific, will be interesting to see what the
y offer



thout having to buy some newer technology at a yet further date in the futu
re. That is what I was told in a telephone conversation with someone very h
igh up in the company. That will need much further evaluation and investiga
ting.

I think someone told you wrong, you just can't convert a 3G unit into LTE,  
it looks like their "Sunset Proof" communicators do it by WiFi and Ethernet


, so that I can rationally assess all of the available options based on rea
l technical information, devoid of sales' lines and tactics.

For cellular you only have 1 solution and that is LTE, you have no choice u
nless you go broadband
  

hat CDMA-Code Division Multiple Access, would be impervious to end-of-life  
obsoletion.  

Yea I know that feeling :(

On Fri Sep 6 21:55:51 2019 Hogan  wrote:

 sunsetting communicators that they are worried abou
t, and what steps or solutions that you may have
 taken or are contemplating as a solution. There
 is only about 220 million of them in the US
.


Hi there. 32 year tech here.  

We have around 3500 more communicators we need to
 replace by the sunset date, just about all by
 a single provider who is working with us on t
he issue. We've already replaced about a thousand  
or so.

We are replacing them daily any time we find the
m during service calls for other problems. We also
 replace them when installers come in early or h
ave nothing to do for that day.

To offset most of the costs, we added a small  
fee to each subscriber's bil land called it a te
chnology assurance fee. We did this months ago and
 have only had a few customers complain and/or q
uit.



 

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 3:14:37 PM UTC-4, Airdorn wrote:

hat they are worried about, and what steps or solutions that you may have t
aken or are contemplating as a solution. There is only about 220 million of
 them in the US.

ate, just about all by a single provider who is working with us on the issu
e. We've already replaced about a thousand or so.

r other problems. We also replace them when installers come in early or hav
e nothing to do for that day.

l land called it a technology assurance fee. We did this months ago and hav
e only had a few customers complain and/or quit.

I don't have nearly as many accounts but I'm using the Napco Starlink. I ge
t a $100.00 rebate and charge anywhere from $150.00 to $200.00 for the up g
rade and in the process, if I can upgrade them further to remote control fe
atures, I also increase my monthly recurring fee.

If you're doing if for nothing, I think you're underestimating the resilien
cy of your account base. It's not your fault or the fault of your supplier  
that there's a sunset occurring. Any accounts that you lose will be made up
 for with the increased installation and recurring income. And besides ----
- what are they going to do (?) go over to someone else that's going to cha
rge them the same amount?  

The least you could do is start out with my above plan and if they take it,
 you're ahead. If they're a good customer and you don't want to lose them a
nd they balk,  you can always call them right back and say your just spoke  
to your boss and he said it was alright to come down and offer them a "SPEC
IAL" at no charge.

I can tell that your not from New York. :-)

On Sun May 3 14:40:15 2020 Jim Davis  wrote:

Airdorn wrote:

slowly sunsetting communicators that they are worried
 about, and what steps or solutions that you may
 have taken or are contemplating as a solution.  
There is only about 220 million of them in the
 US.

ed to replace by the sunset date, just about all
 by a single provider who is working with us o
n the issue. We've already replaced about a thousa
nd or so.

nd them during service calls for other problems. W
e also replace them when installers come in early
 or have nothing to do for that day.

small fee to each subscriber's bil land called it
 a technology assurance fee. We did this months  
ago and have only had a few customers complain a
nd/or quit.

 using the Napco Starlink. I get a $100.00 rebat
e and charge anywhere from $150.00 to $200.00 for
 the up grade and in the process, if I can u
pgrade them further to remote control features, I  
also increase my monthly recurring fee.

 underestimating the resiliency of your account base
. It's not your fault or the fault of your s
upplier that there's a sunset occurring. Any account
s that you lose will be made up for with the
 increased installation and recurring income. And be
sides ----- what are they going to do (?) go o
ver to someone else that's going to charge them  
the same amount?  

 above plan and if they take it, you're ahead.
 If they're a good customer and you don't want
 to lose them and they balk,  you can always
 call them right back and say your just spoke  
to your boss and he said it was alright to com
e down and offer them a "SPECIAL" at no charge
.



Well, tanks for your info. We're doing fine though
.