Question about centre speaker placement

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Hiya.  I know that the centre speaker needs to be placed on top of the TV or
just below it, but I have a TV (an old Sony Wega Trinitron KV-27FS12) with a
top surface that isn't parallel to the ground.  There's a gentle slope
downward, just enough for me to worry about a speaker falling off if
somebody bumps the TV.  Also, that top surface is just under five inches
deep, and the inch closest to the front has six function buttons (TV/video,
channel up/down, volume up/down and power on/off) and I don't want to cover
those up if I don't have to.

Behind that five inches, is a tiny cliff, then it slopes downward, so if I
put the centre behind that five inch surface, it would be angled up at a
small angle (I'm guessing it's maybe 15 degrees), and it would be resting
against the wall (just over a foot behind the TV screen).

Placing the centre speaker below the screen is impractible; there's simply
nowhere for it to sit.

I've considered mounting it to the wall behind the TV, but that's a good two
feet behind the screen!  Will that two foot distance make an audible
difference?

Or can someone suggest a more practical solution?

many thanks to anyone who can help,
vij




Re: Question about centre speaker placement


vij wrote:
> Hiya.  I know that the centre speaker needs to be placed on top of
the TV or
> just below it, but I have a TV (an old Sony Wega Trinitron KV-27FS12)
with a
> top surface that isn't parallel to the ground.  There's a gentle
slope
> downward, just enough for me to worry about a speaker falling off if
> somebody bumps the TV.  Also, that top surface is just under five
inches
> deep, and the inch closest to the front has six function buttons
(TV/video,
> channel up/down, volume up/down and power on/off) and I don't want to
cover
> those up if I don't have to.
>
> Behind that five inches, is a tiny cliff, then it slopes downward, so
if I
> put the centre behind that five inch surface, it would be angled up
at a
> small angle (I'm guessing it's maybe 15 degrees), and it would be
resting
> against the wall (just over a foot behind the TV screen).
>
> Placing the centre speaker below the screen is impractible; there's
simply
> nowhere for it to sit.
>
> I've considered mounting it to the wall behind the TV, but that's a
good two
> feet behind the screen!  Will that two foot distance make an audible
> difference?
>
> Or can someone suggest a more practical solution?
>
> many thanks to anyone who can help,
> vij


Can you control the volume of your center channel through your amp or
receiver.  If so, simply try to compensate for the distance by
increasing the volume.  The only other problem is rattling and
vibration that you might get by placing it in the location you
indicated.  I have mine just below the screen and the sound is
"transparent" as far as the source of the sound is concerned.

www.HomeTheaterDiscussion.com



Re: Question about centre speaker placement


> Can you control the volume of your center channel through your amp
> or receiver.  If so, simply try to compensate for the distance by
> increasing the volume.

Your amp will probably have distance settings for each speaker. That's
the most common way to compensate.

Audio does about 0.03s/m, but the amp will work with metres/feet,
making it easy to adjust.

Gert




Re: Question about centre speaker placement


>> Can you control the volume of your center channel through your amp
>> or receiver.  If so, simply try to compensate for the distance by
>> increasing the volume.
>
> Your amp will probably have distance settings for each speaker. That's
> the most common way to compensate.
>
> Audio does about 0.03s/m, but the amp will work with metres/feet,
> making it easy to adjust.
>
> Gert

I just remembered that the receiver I'm planning on buying (Yamaha RX-V750)
has a parametric room acoustic optimizer, and it measures the distances from
where the listener is to each of the speakers, and adjusts everything
automatically.  So I think the idea of mounting it to the wall above the TV
is probably the best option.

Thanks HTEnthusiast and Gert for your help!

vij




Re: Question about centre speaker placement


> I just remembered that the receiver I'm planning on buying
> (Yamaha RX-V750) has a parametric room acoustic optimizer

What a coincidence. I've got the little brother (650) and the
optimizer mic does a great job. I just love the pure direct function,
making your stereo material sound pretty good for the money.

Let the Yammie warm up a little before you play your Pink Floyd cd's.
It makes a difference.

Gert




Re: Question about centre speaker placement


>> I just remembered that the receiver I'm planning on buying
>> (Yamaha RX-V750) has a parametric room acoustic optimizer
>
> What a coincidence. I've got the little brother (650) and the
> optimizer mic does a great job. I just love the pure direct function,
> making your stereo material sound pretty good for the money.
>
> Let the Yammie warm up a little before you play your Pink Floyd cd's.
> It makes a difference.

Hi Gert,

I'm going to the store tomorrow to pick it up; I can't wait!!!

One of the things I wanted was some sort of optimizer, and I liked Yamaha's
RX-V line, so yeah, this was something I had to get.  It may sound dorky,
but I'm looking forward to using that optimizer mic just to see what the
difference will make when I move some of my speakers around.  And the pure
direct is a great idea -- I've heard it can bring really bring the music to
life.  Ohboyohboyohboyohboyohboy!

When you say to let it warm up, do you mean just turn it on and leave it for
a few minutes, or should I have something playing in order for it to warm
up?

cheers,
vij




Re: Question about centre speaker placement


> but I'm looking forward to using that optimizer mic just to see
> what the difference will make when I move some of my speakers
around.

Don't try to fool it: it measures in 10 cm accuracy.

Listening in stereo really requires the pure direct function. It
bypasses the DSP and also the measurement results from the optimizer
mic, but when listening in stereo, you can easily find the "sweet
spot" yourself. Additional delay/level setting from the mic results
wil destroy the intention of the material. Pure direct rocks.

> When you say to let it warm up, do you mean just turn it on and
leave
> it for a few minutes, or should I have something playing in order
for
> it to warm up?

Yeah, put some crap on (tuner) and do your daily shopping. When you
come back, it has warmed up pretty well. Just leaving it on (no sound)
does not really warm it up (no electrons moving back & forth :)

Best results are after a few hours...

> cheers,
> vij

Good luck with your Yammie!
Grrrt




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


>> but I'm looking forward to using that optimizer mic just to see
>> what the difference will make when I move some of my speakers
> around.
>
> Don't try to fool it: it measures in 10 cm accuracy.
>
> Listening in stereo really requires the pure direct function. It
> bypasses the DSP and also the measurement results from the optimizer
> mic, but when listening in stereo, you can easily find the "sweet
> spot" yourself. Additional delay/level setting from the mic results
> wil destroy the intention of the material. Pure direct rocks.
>
>> When you say to let it warm up, do you mean just turn it on and
> leave
>> it for a few minutes, or should I have something playing in order
> for
>> it to warm up?
>
> Yeah, put some crap on (tuner) and do your daily shopping. When you
> come back, it has warmed up pretty well. Just leaving it on (no sound)
> does not really warm it up (no electrons moving back & forth :)
>
> Best results are after a few hours...
>
>> cheers,
>> vij
>
> Good luck with your Yammie!

Hey Gert,

I finally got all my speakers set up, switched on the ol' Yamaha, whipped on
The Matrix . . . and . . . NOTHING!  So sad -- took me forever to
triple-check every single freakin' connection, until I finally noticed that
the Zone 2 indicator was up.  And nothing I could do could get it off that
zone and back to the Zone 1.  I called up the store from which I bought the
Yamaha, and the salesguy talked me through a bunch of things until we
finally gave up twenty minutes later.  I'm going in tomorrow for an
exchange.  Man, that was so depressing.  And after all that work!  Did yours
work properly when you first brought it home?

You know, this whole "leave the receiver on for a few hours before using it"
thing is just shocking.  Okay, granted, I haven't even had a chance to use
mine yet, but it just doesn't sound right.  Are you sure that your unit
isn't defective?  Did you talk with your retailer/Yamaha about it?  Just
seems wrong . . .

cheers,
vij




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


> Did yours work properly when you first brought it home?

It did. No problems whatsoever.

> You know, this whole "leave the receiver on for a few hours before
> using it" thing is just shocking.  Okay, granted, I haven't even
> had a chance to use mine yet, but it just doesn't sound right.
> Are you sure that your unit isn't defective?  Did you talk with
> your retailer/Yamaha about it?  Just seems wrong . . .

Well no. It's quite normal for gear that it tends to sound better (or
just different) when warm. But I'm talking about minor differences
here. It's not a question of "bad" and "good". Just something like
"good" and "a bit better". It opens up a little. Better placement.

> cheers,
> vij

Good luck!
Gert




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


>> Did yours work properly when you first brought it home?
>
> It did. No problems whatsoever.
>
>> You know, this whole "leave the receiver on for a few hours before
>> using it" thing is just shocking.  Okay, granted, I haven't even
>> had a chance to use mine yet, but it just doesn't sound right.
>> Are you sure that your unit isn't defective?  Did you talk with
>> your retailer/Yamaha about it?  Just seems wrong . . .
>
> Well no. It's quite normal for gear that it tends to sound better (or
> just different) when warm. But I'm talking about minor differences
> here. It's not a question of "bad" and "good". Just something like
> "good" and "a bit better". It opens up a little. Better placement.
>
>> cheers,
>> vij
>
> Good luck!

Hi Gert,

Sigh.  I'm still having problems.  I think my coax audio cable is broken or
something, cos I only get audio when I use my analog audio plugs, but that's
not the main problem.  The receiver seems to be stuck on Zone 2.  Oh, I can
turn Zone 2 power off, but it's kind of a pain to have to do every time I
power it up.  And despite doing the auto calibration and having all speakers
wired properly, only the front left and right show up on the right side of
the panel.  I do get sound out of the other speakers, but it's the faintest,
tiniest, almost inaudible amount of sound.  Sigh again.  I'm slowly going
crackers trying to figure this out.  I'm calling Yamaha tomorrow morning.
This is just nuts.

cheers,
vij




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


> I think my coax audio cable is broken or something, cos I only get
> audio when I use my analog audio plugs,

You mean your DVD player's digital out? My Sohoony has an option in
the menu: digital output [off/pcm/mpeg]. Maybe it is set to "off"...

> but that's not the main problem.  The receiver seems to be stuck on
Zone 2.

Dive into the menu:
3) Option menu
  D) Zone set
    Sp B > Front (and NOT "zone B")

Then, on the front panel. Make sure SP B is switched off. Only SP A
may be active.

But you probably figured this out by yourself :)

> I do get sound out of the other speakers, but it's the
> faintest, tiniest, almost inaudible amount of sound.
> Sigh again.  I'm slowly going crackers trying to figure
> this out.  I'm calling Yamaha tomorrow morning. This
> is just nuts.

If speaker B is zet to zone B, the auto setup will not work (since SP
B (zone B) will not use the surround channels). But the Yamaha is
quite intelligent in it's auto setup and should warn you for this.

Faint, tiny, almost inaudible? Do you use the speaker terminals or the
pre outputs for wiring your speakers? Sorry for asking such a stupid
question, but you never know... I'm trying all the possibilities here
:)

> cheers,
> vij

Yamaha service will probably redirect you to your dealer. In fact,
your dealer should be more helpful... Otherwise they suck and need a
good punch in the nose... That's why there are dealers: S E R V I C E.
And that's why you pay the extra buck compared to internet orders.

Gert




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


>> I think my coax audio cable is broken or something, cos I only get
>> audio when I use my analog audio plugs,
>
> You mean your DVD player's digital out? My Sohoony has an option in
> the menu: digital output [off/pcm/mpeg]. Maybe it is set to "off"...
>
>> but that's not the main problem.  The receiver seems to be stuck on
> Zone 2.
>
> Dive into the menu:
> 3) Option menu
>  D) Zone set
>    Sp B > Front (and NOT "zone B")
>
> Then, on the front panel. Make sure SP B is switched off. Only SP A
> may be active.
>
> But you probably figured this out by yourself :)
>
>> I do get sound out of the other speakers, but it's the
>> faintest, tiniest, almost inaudible amount of sound.
>> Sigh again.  I'm slowly going crackers trying to figure
>> this out.  I'm calling Yamaha tomorrow morning. This
>> is just nuts.
>
> If speaker B is zet to zone B, the auto setup will not work (since SP
> B (zone B) will not use the surround channels). But the Yamaha is
> quite intelligent in it's auto setup and should warn you for this.
>
> Faint, tiny, almost inaudible? Do you use the speaker terminals or the
> pre outputs for wiring your speakers? Sorry for asking such a stupid
> question, but you never know... I'm trying all the possibilities here
> :)
>
>> cheers,
>> vij
>
> Yamaha service will probably redirect you to your dealer. In fact,
> your dealer should be more helpful... Otherwise they suck and need a
> good punch in the nose... That's why there are dealers: S E R V I C E.
> And that's why you pay the extra buck compared to internet orders.

WOO-HOO!!!

Got it all working!  I had no idea that I had to set anything in the DVD
player for digital out, I assumed that simply plugging it in would do the
job.  So I switched it, and voila -- everything is working just the way I
want!  The speaker B thing I figured out, and the Zone 2 thing -- Yamaha
tells me that it's always on, just to let you know that it can handle it, if
need be.

So what do I do?  I whip on the Matrix, then Gladiator, then Peter Gabriel's
Play, notice that the sound coming out of every speaker is completely
perfect, and then do my dance of joy.  Ahhh . . . life is good.  And I am
happy.  Thanks for your help, Grrt, ol' buddy, ol' pal.  (forgive me -- I'm
still kinda giddy!)

cheers,
vij

PS:  Wheee!




Re: Yamaha RX-V line Was: Question about centre speaker placement


> ... and then do my dance of joy.  Ahhh . . . life is good.
> And I am happy.  Thanks for your help, Grrt, ol' buddy, ol' pal.
> (forgive me -- I'm still kinda giddy!)
>
> cheers,
> vij
>
> PS:  Wheee!


:)

Now put on some candles, unplug the phone and get some hours of
listening. It'll do you good. Enjoy your Yammie.

Grrt




Re: Question about centre speaker placement



vij wrote:
> Hiya.  I know that the centre speaker needs to be placed on top of
the TV or
> just below it, but I have a TV (an old Sony Wega Trinitron KV-27FS12)
with a
> top surface that isn't parallel to the ground.  There's a gentle
slope
> downward, just enough for me to worry about a speaker falling off if
> somebody bumps the TV.

You can add a shelf above your TV. They come in somewhat different
shapes and sizes and are sold for CRT monitors for PC and TV use. The
following is an example; I'm sure you could search and find others:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15082&item=5753935225&rd=1

(snip)



Re: Question about centre speaker placement


That is a brilliant idea!  I actually thought of trying to rig something up
like that myself, but I'm kinda useless with stuff like that.  Too bad my
centre speaker is too heavy (it's 18 lbs.) for this model, but I found a
great manufacturer, B-Tech
(http://www.hi-fidelity.com/btech2.htm#speakerwall ), who make great mounts
and stands.  I'm gonna go for that, methinks.  But thanks for the mention of
the TV shelf.
cheers,
vij

>
> vij wrote:
>> Hiya.  I know that the centre speaker needs to be placed on top of
> the TV or
>> just below it, but I have a TV (an old Sony Wega Trinitron KV-27FS12)
> with a
>> top surface that isn't parallel to the ground.  There's a gentle
> slope
>> downward, just enough for me to worry about a speaker falling off if
>> somebody bumps the TV.
>
> You can add a shelf above your TV. They come in somewhat different
> shapes and sizes and are sold for CRT monitors for PC and TV use. The
> following is an example; I'm sure you could search and find others:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15082&item=5753935225&rd=1
>
> (snip)
>




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