LCD, DLP, Plasma -- cant they do blacks?

oh, and replace "proton" w/ "photon" or whatever it is that makes these things work... :)

matt

Yes nothing is as black as a CRT. Also, contrast ratios that are reported are based on different methods so you cannot use them to compare one manufacturers to another. Got to see in person and lighting levels in stores are too bright.

Plasmas should be darker then LCDs. I am not sure about DLPs.

In 2008, SED is coming out from Toshiba.

SED technology works much like a traditional CRT except instead of one large electron gun firing at all the screen phosphors that light up to create the image you see, SED has thousands of tiny electron guns known as "emitters" for each phosphor sub-pixel. This may bode well for video purists who feel that CRTs offer the best picture quality, bar none. One prototype has even attained a contrast ratio of 100,000:1.

Please remember that a 50:1 contrast ratio is all you need, if it is linear. Take a look at some of Mitsubishi's best CRT projectors. That's all they provided for a CR in a darkened room. The image quality was/is spectacular.

Matthew

wow, that sounds awesome. thats what im into -- true blacks due to lack of phospor lumination. looks awesome. too bad its not out yet....

fyi, ive also heard of "diamond dust" display technology, which would also be actual lumination.

thanks, matt

RobH wrote:

And it is all hype. the ratios quoted are gray to gray, not balc to black, which means for watching movies the contrast ratio is useless.

There are many issues for SED to be addressed before it will be ready to compete with current technologies.

Putting any hope or faith in SED would be foolish for at least 2 years after market wide production begins.

Bobby

Rick wrote: > Yes nothing is as black as a CRT. Also, contrast ratios that are reported > are based on different methods so you cannot use them to compare one

When we got the DLP Christmas '03 I was very disappointed in the black level performance. After going to work the next Monday and bemoaning the blacks, I was all set to be unhappy - but in fact, I like it. When Jay Leno came on with his almost black suit, I was unhappy - until I noticed the shadows his arm was casting on his torso. I didn't THINK I was crushing the blacks on the old set but...

The ambient light level will have a big impact on the perceived black level. The black looks much better with some background lights on and the same is true of a CRT. The apparent gamma changes with ambient as well. Worst case viewing is a totally dark room.

SED will be neat if / when it shows up but I'm happy at present.

And you're right about contrast ratio numbers. If you can't duplicate a measurement, it means essentially nothing.

GG

Could you elaborate on your "gray to gray, not balc to black" remark? Don't understand your reference.

Bob Miller

not following you. why were you disappointed on first viewing, but then..not?

good to know. i was in a dark room, as is customary when we watch movies. i suppose i could try it w/ a light on. is this why philips sells that rear "ambi-light" flat panel?

...not sure about this. w/ my CRT i always watched movies in a darkened room, and they were true black -- not electrons hitting the glass. never noticed anything disappointing.

matt

Non of them is perfect; With CRT/Plasma follows reflections in the screen surface. With my old CRT it was enough to put something white on the sofa table to have it show up mirrored in the glass, just from the ligth from the screen. That problem is essentially removed with a matt surface LCD-panel. (Be aware that also LCD differs in this respect and some have a glossy surface.)

The LCD on the other hand requires some ambient light left on due to limited black level. A certain light on the background is also recomended from ergonomic reasons. The DVE disc recommends up to 20% of the screen maximum brighness IIRC. /Jan

I have a 32-inch CRT, which despite being bulky was, when I bought it

14 months ago, the best combo of price and picture quality for me. That being said, I can't watch it in a totally dark room. I set up a 3-bulb pole lamp about a foot behind the plane of the screen and put 25 watt "party" bulbs in blue and green in it and set it so it's projecting on the white wall behind, beside and above the TV. Works like a charm. Reminds me of going to the movies as a kid, because all our local theatres used colored side and screen lights that were dimmed during the picture. Much easier on the eyes.

-beaumon

There is a good read on viewing conditions here:

Bob

snipped-for-privacy@mailinator.com wrote: > G-squared wrote: > > When we got the DLP Christmas '03 I was very disappointed in the black > > level performance. After going to work the next Monday and bemoaning > > the blacks, I was all set to be unhappy - but in fact, I like it. When >

Got the DLP on a Saturday, already had an operating ATSC receiver waiting for it. Compared to the CRT set, the blacks aren't as 'black' so it seemed bad. Kept telling myself it was bad on Sunday and you will see what you want to see. Psyching myself down on Monday at work, I was all set to be unhappy so I continued to be. After alll it's NOT a CRT and the gamma IS different so is MUST be bad. But as I said, Jay Leno's shadows had me re-evaluating my assumptions. It actually looks very believable - which is the whole point.

10-4 on that one. I definitely do not watch it without ambient light but am quite happy, particularly with a good looking transfer, not some weird coloring stuff life CSI and the general 'darkness' of Law and Order. House, Bones, Grey's Anatomy and NCIS look good, especially on the outdoors scenes.

What tends to happen in the dark is you pull the black level of the monitor down to get your blacks but the very dark colors tend to get squashed as well which raises the apparent gamma. Having watched video engineers run cameras when viewing in a dark room, they tend to stretch the mid range (numerically lower the camma number from .50 to maybe .45 or lower). Watching that video in normal lighting appears overly stretched level wise. This was more of a problem 20+ years ago when videotape production replaced film. The film colorists have long been in controlled rooms with carefully calibrated monitoring so they don't make that error.

GG