best HTIB at or about $1k

HTIB & "sound good" doesn't belong in the same sentence. By design, every HTIB compromises sound quality for appearance and profitability. No HTIB includes a subwoofer worthy of even a walk-in closet, and typically the amp & speakers are poor quality as well. The manufacturers are preying upon unwitting customers who think it's best to have all components be from the same company or just don't know what they need.

With a $1k budget, I recommend a Pioneer 1016 receiver ($375), 5 bookshelf speakers from Polk, JBL, Klipsch, etc. (approx. $50-125 ea.), and a Dayton SUB-120 12" subwoofer ($150 from partsexpress. This setup will blow away ANY HTIB and sound quite good with movies in a medium-sized room.

Personally, I find the Polk R15 an incredible value at $80 a PAIR; however speakers are extremely subjective since no one's hearing is the same. Therefore you should demo various speakers to find a sound you prefer. For example, many people love Klipsch, whose horn-loaded tweeter allows a high 93 dB sensitivity, meaning lots of volume with little load on the amp. However many other people feel the Klipsch's horn "blares" and is grating on their ears. Bring a few of your favorite CD's & DVD's to a dealer, and listen to several bookshelves within your budget to see which sounds most accurate and uncolored to YOU (not the writers of some magazine or the salesguy).

HTIB is the epitome of "jack of all trades, master of none." To make matters worse, many are downright terrible with one or more components. It would be like employing a handyman who isn't so great with plumbing...you know you're going to get a few leaks. When it comes to HTIB, just say no!

kha> Looking for a system that is about $1k, HTIB that will sound good for a

"Component snobs" do not recommend $40 bookshelf speakers. I'm sorry if I insulted your hard-earned $385. However, I suspect you were attracted to the TQ85's styling, price, and perceived ease of installation; rather than being truly concerned with comparing sound quality with a receiver and speakers.

Regardless of how a HTIB "vibrates the room" (so does a hearty belch), sound QUALITY simply does not compare with a real receiver and real speakers. I'm not talking about a McIntosh preamp, Classe monoblocks, and German Physiks speakers. A $199 Pioneer VSX-816 & set of $40 Polk R15's, and a $150 Dayton 12" sub will quite simply sound far better than any shiny, plastic HTIB.

Furthermore, these "components" can be mixed, matched, and/or replaced individually to serve your household for many, many years; on the other hand HTIB's often use proprietary connectors and/or odd speaker impedances, which render the WHOLE system obsolete if one part goes bad. (Note the TQ85 uses 3 ohm speakers, and can never be used with another amp when the Samsung amp/DVD player dies.)

Consider what you get for your money. The shipping weight of the TQ85 is less than 62 lbs, while the modest system I describe is over 100 lbs. Yes, weight is a significant spec in home audio (manufacturers always seek to reduce weight to reduce cost, be it in materials or simply shipping charges). Amps are mostly copper and iron, and the more the better; speaker cabinets should be robust in order to help resist resonances; speaker magnets should be big and strong enough to resist flutter; the list go on and on...

If I seem like a "component snob", it is merely because most HTIB's are absolute garbage that manufacturers opportunistically foist upon uninitiated consumers. They spend all their engineering effort on pretty cosmetics, leaving little left for the internal parts...yet they still charge a premium. The low price seems like a good value due to appearances, but the profit margin based on cheap internal parts proves otherwise. They essentially put a small 4 cylinder in a Ferrari body and price it like a Toyota...and you perceive value. BTW, don't put too much stock in the "1000 watts" advertised. In order to rate most every receiver 100W per channel, manufacturers have made a mockery of the testing standards developed to measure amplifier power.

FWIT (though I don't put much stock in media reviews), the TQ85 has received good reviews. No doubt it is sexy looking and will meet the all-important WAF (wife approval factor). Clearly it is better than much of the trash out there. If it makes you happy, great; but until you truly compare it yourself to specialized components, you shouldn't assume I am being a snob. The only thing I am snobbish about is value, and HTIB--though cheap--is not a good value, and more often than not, a terrible value.

P.S. I guess it's a matter of taste. By "value" I mean performance for the dollar. That's why I drive an '06 Mustang GT (300 HP for under $26k), not a VW-based kit car with a Cobra body (my personal favorite design). To someone who values looks over performance, perhaps a 75 HP car that looks like a Cobra is the ticket...and that's precisely what HTIB is. Different strokes...

lanman wrote:

I purchased a Samsung HTIB to go with my Samsung 55" HDTV. The model HT-TQ85 currently sells for $385.00 at Costco and the sound and power (1,000W) will blow you away. The subwoofer is awesome and will vibrate the entire room if you want. The separation and clarity of the corner speakers is excellent. Don't let component snobs lead you to believe you must spend big bucks to have decent sound. There are many quite good HTIB systems available now at very reasonable prices.

I'm inferring from your comment about my "hard-earned $385" that you believe I cannot afford a higher priced system. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just a person who places no importance on labels, brand names, or meaningless specifications.

What does shiny have to do with sound? The TQ85 has matte black plastic center and corner speaker enclosures, and the sub-woofer is enclosed in wood. Some of the better speaker systems now come with metal or plastic housings.

Who cares. At $385, if anything goes, I'll toss it and get another.

Anectodal at best. I'm sure with a little research I could find systems that weigh less and are perceived as better.

I place no importance on the rated wattage. The TQ85 is hardly a Ferrari and it makes no pretense to be other that what it is. The sound quality, imo, is really very good for the price - so the system offers true value. What made me buy this unit in order of importance:

- Ease of setup

- Ease of use

- HDMI output

- Good sound with teeth vibrating bass

- Good value

I should mention that at the time of purchase, I considered this a stop gap throw-away system. When I got it home however, I realized it far exceeded my expectations for an HTIB. I'm not in love with this system, I'm only advising the OP that this is a decent system for the cost and will readily compare in sound quality to many $1,000 systems. I have friends who have spent $5K on their speakers systems, and to tell the truth, they wasted their money.

Now...if you haven't heard the TQ85 yourself, then how much credibility can your comments have?

Nope, it's a great value.

I prefer a more environmentally friendly car and drive a Honda Civic which is rated at 40MPG highway - another meaningless specification.

BTW, sorry if you took this personally. I was responding to the OP and not you, and I didn't mean to imply that *you* were a component snob. You're not, are you?

My point is simply that $385 is a lot of money to a lot of people, and I wouldn't want to criticize someone who wants to experience home theater, but can only only spare $385. However, if one can just stretch another $100-200, it is well worth it for myriad reasons. I apologize for implying you were poor. We couldn't agree more on the last point.

Exactly! Nothing at all, which is why I generally don't like HTIB, which tend to put emphasis on cosmetics at the expense of quality components. The increased use of plastics in speakers is driven by cost-cutting and design flexibity, certainly not sound quality. There's a big push to produce low-profile speaker enclosures to match all those plasma and LCD TV's. This is a trade off, and presents a challenge to the engineers to maintain sound quality in a less-than-ideal cabinet.

Wow, who sounds crass now? Not everyone can throw around $385 without care. This is why components are a wise choice even for those on a budget; you can replace just a single component versus tossing the whole system for a blown speaker. Likewise, when you are ready to upgrade any one component, the receiver &/or speakers can independently be moved to the bedroom or given to the kids.

I hope you don't mean Bose! No highs, no lows...uh oh, did I just upset someone else? Weight in audio components is far from anecdotal or a meaningless spec. Go to Best Buy or Circuit City and try to lift receivers. The $199 models will be around 20 lbs; the $400 models about

25 lbs; the $600 models about 30 lbs; the $1000 models about 35 lbs; $1500 models about 40 lbs; and so on. A high end power amp might weigh 70, 80, even 100 lbs. It's not the insignificant weights of the circuit boards, the extra inputs & outputs, or the taller aluminum chassis; it is mainly the size of the amp...and this is yet another case where bigger is absolutely better.

And so you shouldn't (place value on wattage), as a 65W Harman Kardon will blow away any 100W Sony or Kenwood receiver (just look at their weights). I am not here to denegrate the TQ85, but the components I spec'd are:

-just as easy to set up (it's just speaker wire and some color coded cables?)

-just as easy to use (if not easier, with a likely superior remote)

-HDMI? (well you would have to step up to the $385 Pioneer VSX

1016...but honestly if you have a TV & source with HDMI, you probably should swing for a bit more than $400 in your audio system.)

-Better sound with INTESTINE-shaking bass

-GREAT value

HTIB's are stop-gaps, but why throw away even $385, when a modest receiver & speakers can independently be moved to a den or bedroom? No doubt there are some crappy $5000 systems out there. The room itself is actually the most important component to determine acoustic quality. It's funny to see rich people spend $20-30k on some crazy setup that resides in a large, square great room with cathedral ceilings and surrounded by glass & tile. Nothing will sound good in there.

I have heard plenty of highly rated HTIB's, and have always walked away thoroughly unimpressed. It's funny how the owner will start to crank the volume as if to impress, and the system just grates worse on my ears, clipping, resonating, and rattling my teeth (not in a good way). I am no audiophile, and love to hear budget systems that outperform overpriced equipment; but I have many reasons to doubt a 60 lb 5.1 system, including the amp & sub, with teeny-weeny 3 ohm speakers can sound good in a 1800 cu. ft. room. But I do agree that I should give it a listen before continue to ASSuME it is as bad as all the other HTIB's I've heard.

Obviously it is to you and several other happy buyers. I still feel strongly that a wisely budgeted component system presents a better value, especially when considering the long term.

MPG meaningless!? Do you live in the US? I beg to differ there too with my 14 MPG beast and $3 per gallon gas all summer! Maybe I took the "snob" bit too personally, since I am the polar opposite...being Mr. Bang-for-the-Buck. Hey lanman, it's been fun bantering with you. I don't mean to start a flame war or try to prove mine is bigger than yours. It's just that I'm always setting up home theaters for friends, and have seen some dismal results with those who insisted on HTIB's, and had many excellent successes spec'ing budget components costing just a couple hundred more...and I hate to see innocent people make mistakes.

>>

Peace brother.

P.S. I have my eyes on a 2021 'Vette when my 4 year old is off to college...assuming she gets a full scholarship ;-)

Same here. I enjoy a good debate which sticks to the issues. I

Me too. Oh, and if you really want bang for the buck, you should dump the Mustang and get a Corvette. :-))