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Re: Trolling on Solar (Was Re: Solar sham)
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Re: Trolling on Solar (Was Re: Solar sham) Steve O'Hara-Smith 01-27-2008
Posted by Steve O'Hara-Smith on January 27, 2008, 5:51 pm
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 On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 21:57:12 GMT
mauried@tpg.com.au (Mauried) wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 17:55:21 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith
>
> >On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:19:51 -0500
> >
> >> Anthony Matonak wrote:
> >> > J. Clarke wrote:
> >
> >> > The search is hardly required. I can remember when PV was more than
> >> > $8/Watt and it can now be purchased for $3/Watt. One company says
> >> > they are shipping panels for $1/Watt (but not to just anyone).
> >>
> >> If they aren't shipping to "just anyone" at that price then they're
> >> subsidizing it with something else.
> >
> >        Nope the $1/Watt outfit is Nanosolar who have a roll to roll

<snip>

> Nowhere have I seen any evidence that Nanosolar are actually selling
> their solar panels for $1 a watt.

        From this page:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/29/solarpower.renewableenergy

-------------
"This is the world's lowest-cost solar panel, which we believe will
make us the first solar manufacturer capable of profitably selling solar
panels at as little as 99 cents a watt," said Roscheisen yesterday.
--------------

        A clear claim from a Nanosolar spokesman of a selling price of less
than $1 per watt.

> All they have stated is that they can make them for $1 a watt and that

        Various reports put the manufacturing cost at $0.30 per watt, see
for example:

http://www.celsias.com/2007/11/23/nanosolars-breakthrough-technology-solar-now-cheaper-than-coal/

        I think all the reports with this figure stem from the same press
release.

> they are sold out for the next 18 months.

        The claim on their site is 12 months.

> The actual shipping price has not been revealed.

        No it has not - all that has been said is "capable of profitably
selling solar panels for as little as 99 cents a watt", they might be
charging more, charging less or even giving them away and taking a loss. I
haven't seen the contracts.

> The manufacturing cost of a product does NOT equal its sale price.

        Of course it doesn't - but where did you get the idea that the
manufacturing cost was $1 per watt ?

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/

Posted by Bob F on January 28, 2008, 7:15 pm
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>> Nowhere have I seen any evidence that Nanosolar are actually selling
>> their solar panels for $1 a watt.
>
> From this page:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/29/solarpower.renewableenergy
>
> -------------
> "This is the world's lowest-cost solar panel, which we believe will
> make us the first solar manufacturer capable of profitably selling solar
> panels at as little as 99 cents a watt," said Roscheisen yesterday.
> --------------
>
> A clear claim from a Nanosolar spokesman of a selling price of less
> than $1 per watt.

I read that as meaning that someday they hope to be able to sell for as little
as $.99. It certainly doesn't say they do so now.



Posted by Jeff on January 28, 2008, 9:03 pm
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Bob F wrote:
>>> Nowhere have I seen any evidence that Nanosolar are actually selling
>>> their solar panels for $1 a watt.
>> From this page:
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/29/solarpower.renewableenergy
>>
>> -------------
>> "This is the world's lowest-cost solar panel, which we believe will
>> make us the first solar manufacturer capable of profitably selling solar
>> panels at as little as 99 cents a watt," said Roscheisen yesterday.
>> --------------
>>
>> A clear claim from a Nanosolar spokesman of a selling price of less
>> than $1 per watt.
>
> I read that as meaning that someday they hope to be able to sell for as little
> as $.99. It certainly doesn't say they do so now.
>
>
They are shipping now at $.90, read the rest of the thread.

Jeff

Posted by Arnold Walker on January 29, 2008, 4:56 am
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> Bob F wrote:
>>>> Nowhere have I seen any evidence that Nanosolar are actually selling
>>>> their solar panels for $1 a watt.
>>> From this page:
>>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2007/dec/29/solarpower.renewableenergy
>>>
>>> -------------
>>> "This is the world's lowest-cost solar panel, which we believe will
>>> make us the first solar manufacturer capable of profitably selling solar
>>> panels at as little as 99 cents a watt," said Roscheisen yesterday.
>>> --------------
>>>
>>> A clear claim from a Nanosolar spokesman of a selling price of less
>>> than $1 per watt.
>>
>> I read that as meaning that someday they hope to be able to sell for as
>> little as $.99. It certainly doesn't say they do so now.
> They are shipping now at $.90, read the rest of the thread.
>
> Jeff
I believe Mike Brown is shipping steam engines at .25 a watt.
And Northern equipment is shipping pto generator heads at .10 a watt.
Makes you wonder about the profitability.....especially if you own a tree
farm.
>



Posted by Steve O'Hara-Smith on January 29, 2008, 7:45 am
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On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 03:56:15 -0600

> I believe Mike Brown is shipping steam engines at .25 a watt.

        Sounds good - now add in the cost per watt of the concentrator
array or fuel to power the steam engine and the generator.

        Concentrator at perhaps $250 per square metre would add $1 per watt
(assuming 25% efficiency and counting peak watts in a sunny place).

> And Northern equipment is shipping pto generator heads at .10 a watt.

        pto ? Anyway so you're saying .35 per watt plus whatever it costs
to get the energy. Not bad at all.

> Makes you wonder about the profitability.....especially if you own a tree
> farm.

        Cutting, chopping, drying, stoking and probably cleaning up the
smoke output to satisfy emissions laws is all going to add to the cost.
It'll probably make money though - perhaps not as much as selling the wood.

--
C:>WIN | Directable Mirror Arrays
The computer obeys and wins. | A better way to focus the sun
You lose and Bill collects. | licences available see
| http://www.sohara.org/

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