My First Time Building! Counsel before the big day? : )
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Posted by mook on April 13, 2005, 1:19 am
Please log in for more thread options Howdy Folks! Well, after years of anxiously avoiding building my own PC from components, I've finally broken down and decided to give it a go. My 'old' PC died a sudden death (mobo I believe), giving me an excuse to upgrade a bit and, as I said, attempt to put together my first Baby. When I first started digging computers I wouldn't even install my own software, lol - but eventually I grew more confident, until one day I swapped out my own sound card. Oh yeah, I was the Master alright! So it occurs to me that, on a certain level, bashing together a full PC from parts is pretty much the same as replacing/adding a single component, you just repeat the steps more than once. ANYway, having said that, I'm still a little queasy about things - there really are an awful lot of variables one needs to keep in mind (particularly when purchasing the parts in the first place), so I was hoping I could maybe get a little feedback from those with way, WAY more experience at this sort of thing (that would be you guys!). At the moment, I have only two pieces of the puzzle - the case: Diablo Tek silver gaming case And the motherboard: Asus P4P800S-X [url=http://www.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/sock478/P4P800S-X/+t1627_p4p800s-x.pdf](manual, as PDF)[/url] Nothing too out of the ordinary there, I'm sure. Now, I have indeed "RTFM" a number of times, as well as researched online - but I still believe there's a chance I could be misunderstanding something, or not taking something into account that I should, etc. I'd really appreciate any suggestions, tips, or advice anyone could offer - components that might not work together, components that are junk, mistakes that almost every 'first-timer' makes, etc. I can't really afford to replace anything should I accidentally break it, or if it doesn't "fit". The following are all of the components I plan on purchasing sometime in the next couple weeks, all from NewEgg. Please have a glance and let me know if you see any red flags ? : ) [u:5d6bb9be42]THE MEAT[/u:5d6bb9be42] (necessary) CPU: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-171&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, with Hyper Threading support - RETAIL[/url] RAM: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-198&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] PQI POWER Series 184-Pin 1GB DDR PC-3200, Model MD441GUOE[/url] HDD: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-129&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model WD2000JB, OEM Drive Only[/url] DVD DRIVE (for everyday reading): [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-135-114&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] ASUS Silver 16X DVD-ROM/ 48X CD-ROM Drive, Model DVD-E616P2S, Retail[/url] [u:5d6bb9be42]THE SIDE DISHES[/u:5d6bb9be42] (nice but not really necessary) DVD BURNER: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-040&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] NEC 16X Double Layer DVD±RW Drive, Silver, Model ND-3520A, OEM[/url], with [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-131-839&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE]Memorex 8X 4.7GB DVD-R Media, 10-Pack, Model 32025595, Retail[/url] VIDEO CARD: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-326&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600XT Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP - OEM Bulk[/url] AUDIO [url=http://www20.tomshardware.com/consumer/20021106/] Creative Labs Audigy ONE[/url] (note: this is the only component I am 'carrying over' from my old machine - it is an Audigy 1, but the front panel is identical to the Audigy 2 pictured in the above link to "Tom's Hardware Guides" and I couldn't find any online pics of the Audigy 1) [u:5d6bb9be42]THE DESSERT[/u:5d6bb9be42] (pure extravagance) FRONT PANEL: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-999-214&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE]ENERMAX Aluminum UC-A5FATR2 (SILVER) Multifunction Transfer Panel -RETAIL[/url] CABLES: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=12-104-124&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] ROUND, 12-Inch, True ATA133/100, IDE Cable, 2-Head ( BLUE ) -OEM (x 3)[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=12-104-118&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] ROUND, 24-Inch, True ATA133/100, IDE Cable, 3-Head ( BLUE ) -OEM (x 1)[/url] FANS: [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-999-051&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] CoolerMaster Blue 80mm Neon LED Fan, Model "TLF-R82" -RETAIL (x 3)[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=11-999-061&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] CoolerMaster Blue 120mm Neon LED Fan, Model "TLF-S12-EB" -RETAIL (x 1)[/url] [u:5d6bb9be42]THE UTENSILS[/u:5d6bb9be42] (tools for the job) [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=99-888-207&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] BELKIN Anti-Static Wrist Strap, Model "F8E093"[/url] [url=http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=35-100-007&catalog=23&manufactory=BROWSE] Arctic Silver Premium Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound, Model "Arctic Silver 5", 3.5-gram( 1 cc. ) tube[/url] So, that's the inventory - some things I'm wondering (roughly in order of importance): 1) This is my biggest question - RAM. The mobo specs for memory at the Asus website and the manual are "184-pin DDR DIMM, PC3200/PC2700/PC2100/PC1600, unbuffered and non-ECC", which I believe the memory I've chosen above matches. However, I noticed two things just this morning that shook my confidence a little: a) On the box the mobo came in is a small note that reads "Intel 848P chipset - 800Mhz FSB and Single Channel DDR". Does that mean the mobo will -only- take 'single channel DDR'? And how does one determine if memory is single or dual channel (almost none of the specs at NewEgg reference channel at all)? b) In the manual (page 1-9), it says "Double-sided DDR DIMMS with x16 (data bus=16bit) memory chips are not supported due to chipset limitation". Um...huh? : ) I'm not quite sure what that description means, nor if the memory I've chosen above matches it. 2) Big bad Number Two - SATA vs. IDE? As you can see, I had originally just planned on going with IDE (or is it EIDE? Anyway, I'm sure you know what I mean) - but this morning I found a red/black SATA cable in the mobo box, and the mobo manual shows where the SATA connectors are, so turns out that's an option after all. Is there really that big a difference? Should I resculpt my meticulously ordered shopping cart to replace the IDE drive with an SATA drive? 3) Poor Lonely Number Three - Arctic Silver? It didn't take long reading online to realize it seems like -everyone- is just absolutely in love with Arctic Silver - it is apparently the great Messiah of thermal compound, which is why I threw a tube into my order. The CPU I've chosen is packaged as 'Retail' - I am assuming this means the box contains the CPU itself, -and- the cooling fan (and maybe a heat sink)? If that's the case, my question is - do all those pieces come 'assembled', i.e., are they already together and have some thermal compound between them? If so, should I remove the default compound (um...how? just scrape it off?) and use Arctic Silver instead? Or add a layer of Arctic Silver onto the layer already there? Or just ignore the Arctic Silver and let the default good do its thing? 4) And Finally, Fab Four - the Power Supply. I had originally intended to purchase a case with no power supply and buy it separately, as the common consensus seems to be that for the most part PSUs that come bundled with a case are awful, but I really liked the look of that silver case so I wound up getting it. Just how terrible would it be to use the PSU that came installed with my case? Is it -really- all that bad? (I kinda hope not, if I have to buy a new PSU it will delay this grand experiment by another week or so :P) If I do need to buy a PSU separately, what should I look for? Whew! I have finger cramps after this opus :D Kudos and praise to any of you who managed to read this whole thing without nodding off. I would be very grateful for whatever pearls of experience you wish to cast before this particular swine. Thank you!! | |||||||||||||
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Posted by kony on April 13, 2005, 3:22 am
Please log in for more thread options On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:19:51 +0000, mookus@go-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (mook) wrote: <snip>
>3) Poor Lonely Number Three - Arctic Silver? It didn't take long
>reading online to realize it seems like -everyone- is just absolutely >in love with Arctic Silver - it is apparently the great Messiah of >thermal compound, which is why I threw a tube into my order. The CPU >I've chosen is packaged as 'Retail' - I am assuming this means the box >contains the CPU itself, -and- the cooling fan (and maybe a heat >sink)? If that's the case, my question is - do all those pieces come >'assembled', i.e., are they already together and have some thermal >compound between them? No, and if you scrape off the original Intel thermal pad and use Arctic Silver, then technically your warranty on the CPU is void. On the other hand, if you want to use Arctic Silver, do not first "try" the original thermal pad as once it's melted, it will be much harder to get off of the CPU (than never having had it melt onto the CPU in the first place). >If so, should I remove the default compound
>(um...how? just scrape it off?) and use Arctic Silver instead? Or >add a layer of Arctic Silver onto the layer already there? Or just >ignore the Arctic Silver and let the default good do its thing? Arctic Silver is expensive and messy. It's also barely better than anything else, but it is among the best and some people feel that's justification enough for the use, and cost. Unless you're planning on overclocking or trying to use the quietest fan/sink possible, it's a waste of money IMO. However, now that you have it(?) you might as well use it so long as the warranty issue doesn't bother you... and it shouldn't, much, since the odds of a new retail CPU being defective or failing in a way that "should" be covered under warranty are quite low. The main benefits of an aftermarket thermal compound aren't what the teenagers on the websites mention. A couple degrees temp difference is not a competition and you get no price for "winning"... something they fail to understand. Even when overclocking that couple degrees means only a few MHz gained. The primary benefit is that it doesn't cement the heatsink to the CPU so it's easier to remove later, and that unlike silicone-based compounds, the synthetic based compounds seperate less and don't dry out nearly as much. >
>4) And Finally, Fab Four - the Power Supply. I had originally >intended to purchase a case with no power supply and buy it >separately, as the common consensus seems to be that for the most >part PSUs that come bundled with a case are awful, but I really liked >the look of that silver case so I wound up getting it. Just how >terrible would it be to use the PSU that came installed with my case? Well it may not be sufficient to run the system at all and may damage multiple parts, maybe even catching fire. Or it might run for a few weeks or months, the warranty having expired, then it fails (and again, maybe taking some other parts to the grave with it). Or it might be sufficient providing the system doesn't run at full load a lot and raise the temp much, or it might run fine though shorter lifespan than some better makes. It's your gamble. > Is it -really- all that bad?
IMO, it's fraudulent and should be illegal to sell most of them... legislature takes time to catch up to technology. > (I kinda hope not, if I have to buy a
>new PSU it will delay this grand experiment by another week or so >:P) If I do need to buy a PSU separately, what should I look for? Well you already knew and decided to gamble, right? What are we to say at this point? Hopefully you have a multimeter and the ability to recognize power faults, and hopefully if it does fail it won't kill any other parts. What you should look for is a name-brand with ratings you can trust and ample capacity on the most-loaded power rails. For a P4 based system that generally means at least 16A, preferribly 18A or higher 12V rating. When a PSU has this or higher 12V rating the other rails tend to have enough amperage too. I overlooked your choice of video card and hard drives so if those are high-end, multiple drives, etc, then factor for a little higher capacity PSU to accomodate them. Antec Truepower and Sparkle/Fortron are two very common and good value power supplies. Given the 18A 12V rating I mentioned above, you can choose total wattage rating per make/model as needed. Just remember that the typical problem with generics is their fictional rating system, so 20A of Sparkle power > 20A of generic power
(rating).
>Whew! I have finger cramps after this opus :D Kudos and praise to
>any of you who managed to read this whole thing without nodding off. >I would be very grateful for whatever pearls of experience you wish to >cast before this particular swine. Generally it's better to address individual concerns with a new post, rather than an all-encompassing "new system" post. You will get more people to read whole thing for example, and leaving out the html would've helped in that regard too. | |||||||||||||
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Posted by iTunesIsEvil on April 13, 2005, 6:08 pm
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> Gary Cwrote:
I'd like to see that tutorial, please.
Not much of one... but it's what worked for me... Find it here... | |||||||||||||
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Posted by mook on April 14, 2005, 4:53 pm
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Howdy fellas, Thanks for all the excellent points - I have modified my potential order (note: Kony, I haven't ordered yet, you don't need to yell at me for gambling with my components, lol 8) ), and should be able to order tomorrow (Friday). From what I hear about NewEgg, things should start getting here pretty quick! iTunes, I decided to grab that Thermaltek heatsink/fan you noted - after all, it's only ten bucks eh? Not totally sure I'll end up using it, but better to have and not need than need and not have (though a lot of the NE reviews say their chip runs too hot with the default sink/fan, a lot of other people say theirs run just fine, so who knows?) Kony, sage advice on the PSU, and appreciated - the default case fan I have is a no-name ATX "switching" power supply (don't know what that means actually), 450W total, 12v @ 15a. After reading your advice, I decided to go with an Antec 430W Power Supply, Model "TRUE430" - Retail (the NewEgg link is HERE for those interested) ... it is "only" 430W total (which should still be well above what I need), but it runs 12v @ 26a - from my meager understanding of the subject, BIG DIFF :shock: And it's only $65.00. Thanks for all the help guys! I'm excited and nervous at the same time, hehehe - nervous because things are still in flux (components might arrive damaged, or not cooperate together, or I might install incorrectly, or aliens might snatch me away before things arrive), but excited because once the dust settles, assuming all goes well - I will finally be fully back online, and with a sweeter rig than I've had in quite some time (as opposed to limping along with a laptop like I'm doing now :evil: . Btw, for the insatiably curious, the loadout of my system that died can be found HERE). I'll keep this thread posted as I go along - I thought I might 'document' the whole affair as well, start to finish, with a digital camera and some basic web pages of my experience. There are certainly a million and one half-decent "How To"s on the net, but one more can't hurt! | |||||||||||||
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