XTB, reliablity, etc.

I'll agree it's not a perfect solution but 4 more XTB's arrived today (Thanks Jeff!) that I will be dispersing around the house to cover the few remaining blind spots. The ones I have had in place for a number of months have behaved flawlessly so I thought I would invest in some more units and some Smarthome Controlinc Maxis. The ability to easily and reliably access all 256 device codes from a single controller is great. Now I'll have 8 of them spread throughout the house and that means a controller is never more than a few steps away. Adding a few TM751's and CM11A's enhanced by the XTB pretty much brings me back to where I feel X10 *should* be.

I was thinking about car analogies and I would say that X10 is like a 30 year old car that's got its issues, but happens to get 100 mpg. It would be nice to have when the gas prices soar again. That's what I feel the XTB has brought me - a way to make my old car get 5 times the gas mileage of any more expensive new one.

Today, I had the joy of tracking down why a minicontroller would no longer control a lamp plugged into the same outlet. Turns out the Monterey analyzer was invaluable here. The unit was sending housecode J instead of B, which it was set to. A few 360 degree twists of the housecode dial got it back to B but it was a reminder that mechanical stuff does fail. Since I had picked up a dozen during a Worthington closeout for $3 each, I should replace it but the switch is in my office and only I use it and I love to nurse electronics until they stone cold dead. (-: That's part of the reason I like X10, I suppose - my need to fiddle with things.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green
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Sounds more like a 1989 buick with $1000 wheels, fake fur seat covers and other addon doodads ;-)

Four _more_ ? Have you ever calculated what all the X-10 expenditures have cost you over the years. And how much you would have earned had you spent the time tinkering with it on, say, a paper route or mowing lawns instead? Or better yet, pulling wire?

Betcha coulda hadda hard-wired system ... ;-)

(All in fun -- like playing with HA OK?) ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

Pulling wire. Yeah, I've been thinking about that. The ads that suggest x10 as a way to "add a light switch anywhere" are clearly nonsense. It takes far, far less time and money to pull romex and install a switch than it does to make x10 reliable.

But for true automation applications, what wire can be pulled? My impression was that hardwired systems are all fantastically expensive and available only to dealers/installers.

Reply to
craft.brian

That's a wrong impression. There are a number of reasonably priced hard-wired and RF options which would give far better service than X10 with nowhere near the hassles and failures. Almost anything, even Crestron (which is definitely *not* for the feint of heart or light of wallet) can be purchased for DIY.

Several systems require running CAT5 cable and 110VAC to light switch locations. Others, like CentraLite, substitute an HA-enabled distribution panel for the usual breaker box. These use CAT5 only to the light switches. Obviously, CentraLite and others like it (Vantage, for example) are less suited for retrofit because every controlled circuit needs to be home run to the box. But systems like ALS (supported by OnQ, HAI and a few others) can be retrofit. Zwave, regardless of bad press from Mr. Houston who once has never even seen it, is an interesting option. It requires no new wires, works well and is supported by scores of major manufacturers. UPB is not quite there yet but it's worth considering.

After much consideration, I've decided to add Z-wave to my online store. Product data should be available shortly. I'll also add UPB and a few other things soon after. I have no intention at this time of offering Insteon, primarily due to complaints about Insteon and poor quality of other products from the same manufacturer. As one DIY client put it, I don't want to do their field testing for them.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Mebbe. All I know is that the wiring won't stand changing out all the switches many more times and if I want to restore the old toggle switches without fear of breaking a wire in the wall when I move, I'm ahead by leaving well enough alone. The next project is a detector that senses the sorts of power blips that X10 is prone to and resets any units that turn on accidentally after such a blip to OFF. As someone who's implemented more than my share of new PC systems and SW, I know full well that any upgrade causes a lot of disruption. I'm only willing to make such a substantial change in a new environment, like a new house, where porting the old system would be just about as painful as installing a new one.

Actually I *do* have a database with all my X10 equipment recorded in it. It tracks original cost, replacement cost, manufacture date, firmware revisions and where each device is located in the house. I track replacement cost because so many items were acquired at a very deep discount and I want to be able to replace them all if there's a fire or storm surge or some such other disaster so they are "listed" items for which I pay a premium. One of the reasons I expanded X10, even though I really would like a hard-wired system is that we aren't going to be living here much longer.

While we put up with the enormous problems caused by pulling out all the old windows and replacing them with Andersons shortly after moving in, neither one of us is willing to go through that incredibly disruptive process (dust from the event is still being discovered) for a hardwired lighting control system. The payback just isn't big enough, although it clearly was worth the disruption to replace old, badly caulked single-pane windows with thermopane insulated glass. That renovation had saved us thousands on our heating and cooling bills and provided significant noise reduction. A hardwired HA system, at least in my opinion, would not produce those kinds of returns and so we muddle through with X10. Turbocharging the most often used controllers will have a big payback in terms of lights not missing the "ALL OFF" signal and burning all night.

Actually, when it comes time, I'll be selling all my X10 stuff on Ebay and that $ will contribute nicely to the cost of a hardwired system. I think I'll be able to recapture a substantial part of my investment, especially with the XTB's. More importantly, by buying them, I got to help support Jeff's work in improving quality of life for X10 users. I probably would not have bought nearly as many had Smarthome been selling them and, in fact, I will put my mostly useless Boosterlincs up for auction soon since the XTB outperforms them in every aspect and costs about the same.

OK

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Clear foul. You're determined to prolong your feud, aren't you, to the detriment of the rest of us? Very disappointing, Bob. Very disappointing.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Maybe one switch. How about 16? What if you've got a bad situation like a very old house with some totally inaccessible spaces? I'd say X-10 does a pretty good job if the installer understands its real world operating parameters. Oh, and since X-10 *can* be made reliable without hiring an electrician, usually within the constraints of the UL and NEC, it trumps pulling that old 12/2 romex any day. There's usually no one who would consider pulling a new hardwire 3 way switch as easy as an X-10 based solution except an electrician or a *very* seasoned DIY'er.

Not true. As noted elsewhere, there's quite a spectrum of hardwired HA equipment.

I've not found exactly what I want yet, but I believe that in another ten years it will be commerically available because the subsystems to make it are coming on line.

My preference would be an HA system that was ethernet based, used standard hubs and switches, allowed each switch to act as a mini-server, capable of generating and receiving messages and taking actions as well. That switch would also be a lot smarter than any wallswitch around today. It would know dark/light, current temperature and humidity at that location, have a mic, a PTZ camera, a PIR, an ultrasonic detector, a microwave emitter and detector and an LCD display. All things that could be comfortably handled via ethernet. It would also look just like a toggle switch - if you wanted it to.

I'm glad that it's not here just yet because I am not ready to act on it. If I were building new, I think I'd go with ALS/HAI at the moment. If I did win the lottery and were to start building tomorrow I use that and pull one or maybe two more CAT6 cables to each switchbox. Instead of all the scenes and ramp rates and all the other BS controls offer, I'd like a switch smart enough to know someone's *really* left the room so it had better turn out that light! Smart enough to know the room's too cold, the floor vent is closed; too hot and humid, someone left the window open and the AC on . . . you get the idea. A "smart" home. Not one where lights just turn on and off by remote. That's not quite here yet, but it's coming. In the meantime, X10 does just fine!

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Control4 was listing hardwired dimmer switches controlled over ethernet via CAT5 cables but they were gone from their website the last time I checked. They seem to change product lines monthly.

I still think HomePlug is the most likely winner. It's powerline but uses some of the same techniques as their BPL technology. I expect reliability to be high but cost is likely to be higher than Insteon or UPB but still lower and more retrofittable than hard-wired.

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Reply to
Dave Houston

Heh. Like Robert is actually going to listen... He'll continue posting little jabs at DH along with PR, INFO and FS posts because you nimrods have decided that it's "alright" for him to do so because he's considered a "valued contributor".

Reply to
Frank Olson

Not at all. Houston bad mouths Z-Wave without ever having seen it, much less tested it. His apparent reason is he mistakenly believes that I sell it. He has repeatedly and wrongly maligned an excellent product, to the detriment of the newsgroup.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

That is utterly false. People able to do their own residential wiring easily out-number those able to troubleshoot x10 by several orders of magnitude. Residential wiring is among the most common of DIY projects. Bookshops, hardware stores, and libraries everywhere carry extensive documentation on the subject. I could find a dozen people to install a switch within walking distance of my house. Odds are I couldn't find one who would know how to troubleshoot x10, or for that matter, who would have even heard of it.

I'm curious how you install a whole-house filter without employing an electrician, or being comfortable doing your own residential wiring.

Pulling wire for a switch takes an afternoon. Debugging x10, including measuring the signal attenuation of every device in the house, ordering and installing filters where necessary, installing phase couplers, signal boosters or repeaters, researching device compatibility (to avoid lock-ups, repeated dim commands, collisions, and assorted other problems), and then installing the actual devices, takes at least days, probably weeks. And, the jobs is never really finished since at any moment someone can plug in a device that will suck the signal and cause it to fail.

Reply to
craft.brian

I agree with Brian. This newsgroup deserves a solid A for its cumulative effort and worth in explaining, diagnosing, and recommending X-10 installations and thinking up and building X-10 hardware improvements. Very remarkable.

But it gets a gentleman's C with respect to hard-wired lighting systems in my opinion. Take the example of converting to centralized hard-wired dimming of a ceiling light powered through a wall switch. Commonly you can get to the supply to that individual switch where it comes up the wall from the basement. Retrofitting for a centralized hardwired system consists in replacing the SPST switch with a wirenut, replacing the faceplate with the hole with one with no hole, and running a 14/2+G to the dimmer panel through the basement ceiling. How hard is that? Other installations in US stick-built houses are often simple variations on that theme including some drywall patching.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc_F_Hult

Having pulled several thousand feet of wire here, I am very familar with what it takes to do hard wiring. Sometimes adding a switch only takes a couple of hours. Other times there just isn't any easy way to get there. I've spent my share of time working my way through that sea of insulation to run a few more wires. It ain't fun!

I don't understand why X10 seems to be black magic to so many people. There is one basic rule - get a decent signal to the receiver, and it should work. We know what causes problems. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to make it work.

Many people "tweak" their system until they get it working. Unfortunately, their signal levels are probably barely adequate, and the next "unfriendly" device causes another problem. It probably took me less than an hour to go through the last house and identify all problem loads. I used a palmpad to trigger a RR501 at a central location. Then I went through the house with the ESM1 checking signal strength at every receptacle that powered a possible problem device. I triggered an X10 command with the device unplugged, and then again plugged in and on. Any change was a reason to filter it. The bad guys were Lights of America CF bulbs, all computers, a APC UPS, and the Sony TV.

One other significant issue with X10 is too much traffic. Some people use multiple motion detectors, and that is just asking for trouble.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Careful with that word "utterly" (carried to the utmost point or highest degree : ABSOLUTE, TOTAL ) as it leaves little room for error in your assessment of certainty. I can get nearly ANYONE going with 3 way switch (where there was none before) using X-10 faster than any human electrician you know can run a new run of Romex through the wall. (I say 'nearly' because experience tells me there are always exceptions and almost 'nothing' is utterly 'anything.')

My specific example was a 3 way switch. Given that I've seen experienced electricians muck them up, I specifically chose that as a "separating the men from the boys" example. Are you claiming that anyone who could comfortably get a 3-way switch pulled from scratch could NOT also easily learn how to debug X-10?

If *I* could learn to debug X-10 AND teach my wife how to do it, you could, too, and so can a multitude of others. It's bothersome that it's necessary to buy meters and XTB's, but X-10's designers apparently had crystal balls only good for twenty years.

Electricians need tools; so do X-10 installers. That's pretty simple but it's something that seems to have vanished from your equation. Are you going to gnaw through the plaster and lathe or wallboard or do you intend to buy a drill? Are you going to strip the wire with your teeth or buy a stripper? What about a voltmeter, wire nuts, wire, cutters, fox and hound toners, snakes, special long drill bits, fish tapes and plaster and paint tools?

And what about a permit? I don't need one for X-10.

To debug X-10 you need to buy a simple bar graph meter and learn how to use it. What's the big deal? I'm sorry, Brian, but I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

Just because it's common doesn't mean it's done competently. It's probably the home repair done the least competently and codeworthy, except perhaps for plumbing (based on old houses I've seen, at least).

There's a bigger issue here, though. You're making what I believe is a very serious comparison error. You're trying to equate an entire house automated by X-10 (and the attendant problems) to pulling a single, new switch. They are in no way equivalent. A fairer comparison would be something like an X-10'ed house being likened to a DIY electrician installing a Centralite system from scratch. (As I understand it, high-end HA manufacturers tend to discourage that practice since they're all too familiar with the range of experience of DIY electricians. They obviously prefer that their systems be installed by company-trained and company-certified installers.)

Yes, there are plenty of amateurs that can "pull a good single pole switch" but I have repeatedly found for many that their competence declines rapidly as the task increases in complexity. I've seen wire snaking (especially by DIY'ers but by pros as well) result in some pretty serious issues like walls crumbing and other cables being cut through inadvertently. I knew a guy who disturbed a hornet's nest while fishing wire in the attic and ended up hospitalized. We've had multiple reports here of people tying neutral to grounds in horribly unacceptable ways. DIY wiring is FAR more risky and time-consuming than X-10 could EVER be.

I just unwired a rat's nest Mongolian Cluster F*** in the basement done by just the sort of person dangerous enough to know how to connect two wires with a wire nut, but not what they mean. It's a lot harder to kill someone accidentally by X-10 module misconnection than by doing your own, (probably) un-inspected 110 or 220VAC wiring. We've seen *so* many cases of people writing messages here indicating they are DIY'ing their own wiring that also reveal they don't know the difference between neutral and ground. Or what a traveler is. Or why some white wires are marked with black or red tape. Or why the middle dimmer in a bank of three keeps burning out. It's shocking, really. Electrocution is a significant cause of death in this country. Here are your lifetime odds of dying from:

Fire or Smoke 1-in-1,116

Natural Forces (heat, cold, storms, quakes, etc.) 1-in-3,357

Electrocution* 1-in-5,000

Drowning 1-in-8,942

(Gotta wonder if DIY electricians that don't know HOT from NEUTRAL are among those killed each year? There have been some who've posted here that we've never heard from again! I'll bet if we had any electrical inspectors here they could tell us tales of things they've found cobbled together by DIY'ers that would make our collective hair stand on end!)

Licensed electricians? According to my electrical code, only the homeowner can do wiring work without a license. Are inspections included? Drywall repair included? Insurance in case they drill through a gas line snaking that wire? Insurance in case they reverse your hot and neutral and your kid dies fishing a PopTart out of the toaster? You're not being very realistic in your comparisons.

Sure, lots of people do their own wiring, but unless they've spent the time learning the trade and the NEC, odds are you are getting substandard and possible lethal workmanship. And, if by chance you are talking about a licensed electrician among the dozen, what would they charge you to add a light switch compared to the cost of an X-10 light switch or lamp module and controller? Are you certain you're willing to compare the quality of a job done by an electrician who's wired 10K homes to that of a DIY'er doing his first wiring job with the help of an illustrated book?

A while back, I helped someone in a bad domestic situation install four X-10 lamp modules, a mini controller and an automatic timer for under $50. No other HA manufacturer, no DIY electrician, in fact NO ONE I know of can touch that price point for an eight load timer/controller, a manual controller and four load controllers. Very few can touch the time it took to install and program - less than twenty minutes.

More importantly, she loves it and understands how to use it. She can turn on lots of lights if she hears a noise from the controller by her bedside. She also doesn't have to deal with four separate plug-in timers (which she had been using) that get out of synch with every power failure. The X-10 unit has a battery backup. X-10 also makes it a lot easier to use those timed lamps without disturbing their timer settings, either. Before, she had to fiddle with the timer on the floor at the outlet to turn on a local lamp. Now, she just flicks the table or floor lamp switch twice to activate local control.

So, what's your point? If you don't like X-10, no one's forcing you to use it. If you need troubleshooting advice, you've found the one place that is virtually guaranteed to help you solve your problem. If you need to just bitch about it for reasons unknown, then I would suggest acquiring a life from Ebay. Just kidding. But really, I'd prefer to spend my time helping people debug their X-10 problems rather than write polemics about the problems and permutations of the protocol. There are plenty of people using X-10 that wouldn't dream of poking around inside their circuit panel. Their choices are not quite as flexible as you might have us believe.

If you're trying to convince me that:

1) folks living in other than traditional stick-built homes or 2) those with bad access to ceilings or 3) people living in rental properties or 4) people without the skill, the drill, extended drill bits, fish tape, plaster repair and painting tools are better served by buying a Sawzall and letting her rip than putting a little time and $ into solving X-10 problems, you've got a few more light years to go.

I've installed a number of kits of lamp modules and mini-timers in large tract houses and they worked just fine. There's no automatic light timer for multiple lights that's as simple and cheap. I always take my meter along when I do installs, but then again, I would hope any electrician worth his salt brought his tools when he installed equipment. There are plenty of situations where I would use X-10 and the four listed above are but a fraction. Nothing else in the world comes close in price. Nothing. I haven't priced either lately, but I'll bet I can get an X-10 module (and probably a controller, too)for less than just the Romex to run your manual switch wire. Such is the benefit of mass production and economies of scale.

I've never met anyone in person who's ever needed one but yes, you might need an electrician to handle that special case. Usually, you can just avoid using your neighbor's housecodes. That's why they provided 16 of them and 16 unit codes. My X-10 installation has required neither a whole house filter or a repeater. I had to be creative to accomplish the latter, but it's enjoyable hobby activity for me. It's obviously not for everyone. A more important note is that X-10's transmission medium CAN be filtered. What happens when you get RF interference on your RF-based HA system? Do you put copper siding up and screen your windows with copper mesh? You won't need an electrician - you'll need an inheritance from a rich uncle to pull that off.

Plugging in an X-10 module takes 10 seconds. Debugging, ten minutes more.

Weeks? Aw, c'mon, dude, I'm afraid that summation is *nearly* (what was the phrase you used?) "utterly false!" You buy a meter, some filters, take a few signal readings *if* you're having problems, install a some filters and in most cases, that's it. You're attempting to make it sound as if you need a Ph.D., two graduate assistants, a research librarian, access to Caltech lab equipment *and* an NSF grant just to get an X-10 lamp to light. That's not true.

You simply need an X-10 meter to debug nearly every common X-10 problem.

If you want to get fancy, you can buy an analyzer. I did. And I learned to use it in one night. The instructions were a horrifying 8 pages long!!! One reason why things might seem so complicated is that people futz around so long trying to solve serious problems without one. It's painful to watch. It's like trying to tell if you have a fever without a thermometer. We had a secretary like that - she'd offer her forehead up to everyone in range so they could see "if she felt warm" because she always thought she was running a fever. We chipped in and bought her one of those fancy instant ear thermometers for her birthday. She still didn't stop asking for forehead checks, though.

Some technologies require tools. X-10 requires at LEAST a meter (and if you've got an unusual situation or support more than one site, an analyzer). I factor that cost into the overall cost of ownership. Add in the XTBs and it's *still* cheaper and more convenient than any other solution I've seen on the market, at least for my very personal home automation needs. It may not be as good a fit for others, I'll admit, but for me, and a number of others, a little work and $ protects a large and growing investment in X-10 HA gear.

As for the Mongol hordes beating down my door to force their nefarious signal sucking electric horse mane curlers, Urtuu-Pods and khuushuur crock pots into my defenseless electrical outlets, that problem was easy to fix. I made sure the outlet where a guest was likely to plug in a power shaver or alarm clock was filtered. I did the same in my PC lab where someone's likely to plug in a "foreign" laptop, UPS or PC.

Now that I have Jeff Volp's XTB's I haven't bothered to X-10 bench test new gear - I get signal levels in the 1, 2 and 3 volt ranges now, and I assume that's what X-10 signals used to be 20 years ago (I neither needed nor owned a meter back then). Previously I'd only have a fractional signal. Back then, every new purchase got tested on the meter.

Believe me, I would rather bench test a wall wart for two minutes than fish wires through a dust choked ceiling, crawl around on attic rafters stuffed with fiberglass and have plaster dust get in my mouth, eyes, ears and nose. Since I barcode and inventory new equipment anyway, it was no big thing for me.

Making X-10 effective wasn't rocket science and it was a lot easier than learning the NEC, which is something far more complex than troubleshooting X-10, despite protestations to the contrary. Just because pulling wire

*looks* easy doesn't mean it is. The devil is always in the details.

A competent electrician wouldn't troubleshoot household wiring without a voltmeter. Neither would a competent X-10 user or installer troubleshoot an X-10 installation without an X-10 signal meter. That's pretty straightforward in my book. In a world where I am expected to upgrade my PC's OS every three years, spending a little money and brainpower to extend X-10's twenty-plus year service life another five or ten years seems like a no-brainer to me. YMMV, though.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

That ceiling light represents perhaps one tenth of my HA use. Most of my modules are plugged into outlets or powerstrips controlling free-standing lamps and devices. When you have to start pulling wire to every switch and outlet in the house to create a truly hardwired control system, you're talking about turning the house upside. Wifey no like!

See my response to Brian about how hard that can be. I stand by what I said to him. Running a new three-way switch - just a manual version - takes a heck of lot more time and effort than doing it via X-10, at least for me. Why? Well I have the proper tools. Meters and filters. Without the right tools any project becomes difficult. Try fishing wire without fish tapes and long drill bits. It can be done, but it's not fun! Pulling wire for the first time can be very difficult for DIY'ers, especially in the many places where retrofitting wiring is difficult. I believe we both live in such houses, although yours seems a little harder to deal with than mine. (-:

As I said to Brian, the devil lives in the details.

Did someone add extra bracing or firestops inside the wall? Is the basement ceiling stapled up and not a drop ceiling (mine was)? Does the attic have to be emptied to access the spots you need to fish wire? Just like X-10, rewiring goes smoothly a lot of times but turns into a bear when it doesn't. Got paint leftover to match your repairs or will your wife insist that you now repaint the entire room to cover any repairs? (Mine did and that was the last 110VAC cable I pulled!)

It's easy for me see how complicated things can get because I've been there and done it and hate pulling wire unless there's no other option. X-10 gives me that other option, and unlike their wireless cams, it's actually reliable when properly installed (meters, filters, XTB'S). My first HA camera was an X-10. After careful review, I knew I had better start stringing some RG-59 and buying CCD cams with ExView sensors if I wanted clear, high resolution images. Yet I know that some people are quite satisfied with their X-cams. I'll bet both their requirements and their environments are quite different from mine.

Remember the poor guy from Puerto Rico with the concrete house? He's not pulling cable any more easily than setting up and debugging X-10. It's easy to discount all that you and Brian know and have learned to be able to pull your own wire. I maintain that X-10 requires a similar level of knowledge to be used effectively. Lots of people feel that it shouldn't, but that's life, I guess. Lots of people believe computers shouldn't have so many things to fuss with but believing it doesn't make it so.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I think it probably depends on where an individual is on the left-brain, right-brain, no-brain continuum.

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Reply to
Dave Houston

And why should he? From what I've "seen" of it, it's far less robust than all the "balleyhoo" that's been posted about it. The fact is that there's been little in the way of additional products over a few wall switches.

It's always you, isn't it Robert? You are one paranoid individual.

of the newsgroup.

Much like you repeatedly and wrongly malign Dave and a lot of individuals in ASA whom you don't even know...

Reply to
Frank Olson

Insulation, bees, asbestos, you name it. I've been following a nasty thread in alt.home.repair about what constitutes a proper ground. That thread made it clear to me once more that many DIY'ers have a somewhat cloudy understanding of the NEC and local housing codes.

I think a big part of the problem is the intense psychological resistance people seem to have regarding buying a meter. If you're lost in the woods you need at least a compass and maybe even a GPS. If you're lost in the powerline, you need at least a meter and maybe even an analyzer.

Unfortunately,

"unfriendly"

Precisely. Making continual mini-fixes only keeps you one step ahead. Barely.

I've got some of the same damn demons in my house. If you recall, before the XTB I was considering trying to meter several legs of my wiring circuits using a single ESM1 and several identical transformers feeding into the head unit through stepper relays. I was in the state you described above - patched but precariously so and waiting for the next new gadget to knock out some section of the house. The XTB really made that sort of status monitoring unnecessary, thank God!

That's where a faster protocol would have a serious advantage. Shorter data bursts mean fewer collisions. You've managed to make X-10 more powerful with the XTB; you next assignment is to make it faster! :-)

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

No, no, I'm not. Read the post. I'm comparing a single new wired switch with a single new x10 switch. You might have saved yourself writing a dissertation if you'd just read the post. It wasn't very long. I made that comment because x10 devices are marketed that way: add a new switch anywhere in just minutes! ... followed by weeks of debugging.

This is just absurd. The very group you're posting to refutes this claim practically daily.

Tell me how, with ten minutes and a meter, you would have discovered that an IBM transceiver (from a retailer recommended on this group) locks up when sent dim commands from certain remotes? Or that installing an RF repeater because of signal range problems would futz the x10 RF remote on the PC? Or that some modules dim continuously? And why? Or that every night around 9pm the unit you just installed turns on mysteriously. That'd be quite a trick to find in 10 minutes, unless you were prescient enough to know when the erroneous signal would arrive.

That's a subset of the issues I've had with just a few x10 devices, in a fairly small house. If you lurk on here for any amount of time you will see many others. cm11a lockups, transceiver collisions, and so-forth. You would find those in 10 minutes with a meter, too?

Easily. You might even resort to designing and building your own signal booster when nothing else gets the job done.

b.c.

Reply to
craft.brian

You're absolutely right. 10 minutes? Ridiculous! 10 seconds? That's more like it. Transceiver lock-ups and continuous dimming are one and the same and both will show a continuous signal on an ESM1 meter. Collisions will show a signal but without lighting the "X-10 Good" LED. CM11A lock-ups will show no signal on the powerline.

There has been some type of transceiver lock-up reported that I haven't been able to duplicate but, if it is a real phenomenon, it will also show no signal on the powerline (like the dog that didn't bark).

An ESM1 will not help with mysterious turn-ons unless you just happen to be watching it at the time but the CM11A log will. If the log shows an X-10 command at the time of the mystery event, look for an X-10 source. If not, look for a motor starting/stopping, fluorescent turning off, or something else that puts spikes on the powerline.

Stuck button on a remote under a couch cushion? Well, that can take days although the ESM1 will, at least, show continuous signal on the powerline and the missing remote should be another clue. ;-)

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Reply to
Dave Houston

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