XTB-II Enhanced Repeater

With as many remotes as you have, I can understand the problem of command storms. I don't think we have had one ourselves since the CM11A beta test ended.

I would suggest trying to mod an existing X10 module to be a storm monitor. Candidates would be the X10 chime and universal modules. It might be possible to replace the custom IC in one of these modules with a PIC programmed to act as a storm monitor.

The XTB-II LED monitors 120KHz gate drive to the power stage, and only flashes when the transmitter is active. It doesn't light in response to powerline activity unless the repeater is enabled.

The fact that the XTB-IIR drives with so much power is the reason why I want to inhibit its output in response to a command storm. That is something that can also be ported over to the existing XTB-II with a PIC firmware update.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp
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The next to the last "storm" was caused by a BSR-era maxicontroller finally giving up the ghost after 20 years. No stuck button - it just transmitted an endless stream of X-10 garbage. I have a number of others of the same vintage and I suspect that they, too, will start to fail at some point.

It might be possible for *you* (and many of the others here) but I assure you that even if the entire world depended on me swap-soldering a PIC in and out of an X-10 module - well, bye bye world. (-: The very best I could hope for is cracking open an ESM1 and figuring out how to interface a simple timer/latching relay circuit to the signal diodes. Since it flashes for both X-10 "good" and noise signals, it would do the job.

I do agree that something like the chime or universal module would make a good platform for the job. If anyone *else* figures out how to do it within a reasonable cost, I would be happy to fork over some money to them for a broadcast storm detector. With all those new Palmpads in play it's only a matter of time to the next stuck button.

So much for that idea! I guess I'll wait and see how your efforts work out before I ruin a perfectly good ESM1. (-:

want > to inhibit its output in response to a command storm.

That's true. Before, when I had lots of TM751's on different branch circuits in an attempt to work around the overall low X-10 signal strength, it was pretty easy to find a stuck button because the event was fairly localized to the nearest X-10 transmitter device. A TM751 in endless dim mode in the kitchen would only effect switches on that branch. With the XTB, a stuck transmitter can reach nearly everywhere so tracking it down is not as easy as it was!

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I've started my project and the first thing I decided to do was to cut the cord between the power supply and the meter head of the ESM1 and to install a jack on the meter head power leads so that I could examine the performance of various 12VDC 500MA adapters that I have around the house. I wanted to see whether I really need to acquire multiple units of exactly the same power supply to get equivalent readings from each of the branch circuits. It seems that transformer-based power supplies are getting harder to find! I assume that a switched power supply wouldn't pass the X-10 signal along the way a transformer-based supply would. This will also enable me to test various lengths and gauges of wire to see how cable length affects the X-10 signal.

I've also decided to monitor the LED bargraph as well as the X-10 and PWR LEDS on the unit. My reasoning was simple. As long as I was monitoring the existence of X-10 traffic, I might as well add a few more photodetectors and monitor the bargraph at three points to give me readouts of high, low and medium signals. Since the cradle's interface panel will prevent me from aiming a camera at the meter and sending the signal to a remote monitor, optically coupling the cradle to the LED bargraph should accomplish much the same thing and give me an output I can read remotely via something like the Ocelot.

I've been reading up on the 555 chip and they're incredibly powerful little devices with lots of capabilities. I'm putting together an order for phototransistors, some GP circuit boards for IC devices and a few different versions of the 555 chip and hopefully will have time to design the basic circuitry in a few weeks. Ironically, in putting together the basic 555 circuit it's a little easier to see where ladder logic came from and how it works! (-:

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Reply to
Dave Houston

| I've been reading up on the 555 chip and they're incredibly powerful little | devices with lots of capabilities.

The original 555 had the capability to put incredibly powerful spikes on the supply line. IMHO it was one of the most over-rated components of all time... :)

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

Reply to
Dan Lanciani

Hopefully that "feature" won't affect me too negatively. I'm using it to be able to easily adjust the length of time I use to define a broadcast storm and possibly to stretch out the brief pulses from the LEDs to insure that they register. The 555 is able to sink enough current to enable me to interface easily with sound and light indications and that's another reason I chose it.

I realize that this is probably a job better suited to a PIC of some sort, but unfortunately I'm barely experienced enough in 555 circuits to get by. Moving to a PIC would add a lot of powerful abilities and features, but would also increase the complexity. Since I've already gotten the AC/DC input question wrong, I think sticking with simple is better, at least for me! If I were able to program PICs in my sleep like you, Dave and Jeff, it would be a piece of cake, I'm sure, but I'll just have to muddle through with my archaic 555 circuitry, even if it's as spiky as punk rocker's hairdo. (-:

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

My bad. I figured it out when trying to figure out which lead was plus and which was minus! Neither, of course. Looking closely at the transformer label would have clued me in, too. Oh well, AC only is going to make finding replacements a little harder so the search begins again. Good thing I posted before I finalized the order. I guess my subconcious was trying to look out for me even if my concious mind is a little dopey! Thanks.

I have a number of AC 12V wall warts, so I can still do some testing to see how the ESM1 responds to different types of AC power supplies. I'm assuming using a 9V power supply isn't going to hurt anything. I'd like to test one to see the results. On the plus side, the AC power source shouldn't cause the voltage drop problems that a DC power supply might. That's a concern of mine since I want the branch monitoring transformers that feed the cradle's rotary input switch locating at the very ends of each different circuit branch since that's where bad signal problems are most likely to manifest themselves.

Also, thanks for the link to the schematic although it's probably not going to be of much use. One of the whole points of this exercise is NOT making any mods to the ESM1 so that it can easily snapped out of the cradle for standalone use throughout the house. The cradle should also help with replacement if switching power supplies somehow causes all the magic smoke to escape!

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I don't think there's anything special about the transformer. When I first reviewed the ESM1, shortly after it was introduced, I was attacked rather viciously by Claus Vader and someone who claimed to have designed it who further claimed the readings could be influenced by placing the electronic unit close to the transformer.

I contacted the company who designed it who had hired someone else to redesign it (the original had a different name) and I subsequently had an exchange of emails with both the owner and engineer (Paul Beam) although I don't recall asking specifically whether there was anything special about the transformer. Anyway, I tested for transformer induced effects and found none. I went further, replacing the transformer with one I got from Jameco and found no measurable difference in performance so I suspect any of the

12V AC wall transformers you may have will work equally well.

This was all before Elk bought the rights to it. Brian Karas was pondering buying the rights before Elk got involved and I had volunteered to write a Windows interface if Paul would add an RS232 output.

9V AC may not hurt anyth>My bad. I figured it out when trying to figure out which lead was plus and
Reply to
Dave Houston

You attacked viciously? Here in CHA? Say it isn't so! (-: This is a virtual organization of professionals of the highest standards, or at least that's what *my* attackers tell me.

As for alleged interaction between head and transformer, I haven't seen any effects like that, although I suspect low production volume units could easily experience component and design changes between successive models. Everyone tweaks their design a little (or a lot) depending on the feedback they get. I'll look for any interaction although it's highly unusual for the head and the wallwart to even be in close proximity in normal use. It's not likely I would even look for that sort of interaction because I use the ESM1 as a pretty rough gauge of line activity and save the detailed analysis for the Monterey because it reads in millivolts.

Jeff Volp helped me run down the nearly identical transformer a while back, but I can't find the damn email that had the actual website listed. The original "transformers on each branch circuit end" design was intended to catch signal suckers that someone might have plugged in. When the XTB's arrived, signal suckers moved way down on the problem list and I abandoned the project. Now that broadcast storms are the big issue, I revived the original design and modified it to act as a broadcast storm detector. Since it's a ON/OFF sort of application, it might be a great chance to empty the AC wall wart junk bin of the many (mostly modem) power supplies that have wound up in there.

So this is old ground I'm covering. Well, it will be useful to see what of my existing inventory of AC wallwarts will be useful. I don't much care about how accurate each one of the units is, at least not now. I want to be able to determine whether transmission have exceeded the 30 second limit so any signal that lights up the X-10 GOOD LED or the first segment (or second - haven't decided) of the bargraph will be good enough for broadcast storm detection. If I decide that the spider web system of remote branch wallwarts is useful in other ways, I might attempt to calibrate each transformer to a single reference, although I am not quite certain how I'll attenuate the signals from the "stronger" wall warts to match each other and the Monterey, which I'll use as a reference device.

Whatever happened to Brian? He seemed to vanish the same time as Claus.

If I stick to the plan and use the various transformers just to detect broadcast storms, I assume that GO/NO GO determination will be good enough. The ability to see the relative strength of the signal on different branches will certainly be made easier by having accurate house-wide readings, but the perfect is the enemy of the good and right now, the biggest issue is quickly detecting broadcast storms when they occur. The other stuff is nice to have. Eventually, I might want to auto-step through the branches and record the output to a logfile so I have a running tally of the signal strength throughout the house. That shouldn't be too hard once I've coupled to the ESM1 display. An old PC with a parallel port could be adapted pretty easily, I think, to capture the output from my cradle's electronics, giving me a log files of signal strengths.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

I think his interest waned after he closed his online (and offline) HA related store. His expertise is missed.

He does peek in now and then using a different identity.

Reply to
Dave Houston

That's good. I bought some stuff from him and he was very helpful in getting a very generous and speedy exchange for a defective unit. I do recall he faced more than his fair share of gas from some of the more gaseous posters here.

The big decision for this morning is "do I cut the ESM1 cord at the halfway point, close to the head or close to the wall wart?" Decisions, decisions. (-:

(As for unrelated threads, the IRTRANS still sits in its box. I was having trouble with it picking up a continuous stream of bad signals which I tentatively traced to the Fujitsu's 3400 Tablet PC's screen reflecting off my eyeglasses. It turns out that with the arrival of the HACS 8X8 Matrix switcher my need to coordinate various remotes via the IRTRANS really fell off. I'll still get around to working with it as it has a load of very interesting features but I am reluctant to spend any more time tweaking the house AV since we'll be moving and I am not quite sure how HDTV is going to effect all of this. I'll also have to find a different platform to run it with if it turns out the Fujitsu is really the source of the stray data. I didn't do any extensive tests once the matrix switcher arrived. Thanks again to Frank from Oz for lead on that unit. It solved problems that I didn't even know I had.)

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Actually you had found the transformer at Surplustraders.net. It is not listed anymore.

From that email:

12VAC/500MA. WRC A7-10-01, 41A-12-500. UL/CSA. 2.1/5.5mm barrel jack with a 10mm shank.. 2-1/4"L x 2"W x 1-1/2"H. Made in China. Individually cartoned. $3.50 Ea/25, $2.95 Ea/100, $2.85 Ea/500, $2.75 Ea/1000. 709 in stock MB268

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

I thought you had found some very similar ones at Mouser or one of the other supply houses. IIRC, Surplus Trader had a 25 piece minimum order, which surprised me since they bothered to mention the single unit price. All 709 got sold?!!!! Crap! I've got a whole passel of various adapters that I can run some tests with. He who snoozes, loses. In retrospect I should have bought 25 and sold the excess off on Ebay. Next time.

This is your fault, really. If you hadn't designed the XTB's I would have had to continue building the device when I first conceived it. Only once in the last few months have I plugged something in that substantially hosed X-10 reception for one single circuit. That was an APC UPS, if anyone cares, plugged into an outlet very close to the main breaker panel, running without an X-10 filter. I'd sure rather be able to open them up and snip whatever component out that's causing the havoc because it's common to all of them. Nice UPS's except for the X-10 issues.

Thanks again for being my mail memory

The hunt begins again for 5 or so reasonable priced 12VAC 500MA Class 2 power supplies. They're out there somewhere, I'm sure.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

This one works with my ESM1.

Jameco MODEL NO:ACU120050 PRODUCT NO:AC1205F1 P/N: 101258PS

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Be forewarned that Jameco now ships from several warehouses and charges the customer separate shipping charges for each origin so a simple order for a few dollars worth of parts may incur shipping charges equal to many multiples of the cost of the parts. You only learn this after placing your order. I no longer do business with them as a result.

Reply to
Dave Houston

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Thanks for the link, Dave, and the heads-up about the multiple warehouses. They are not the only ones who engage in that sort of behavior. I'd really like to know in advance where a vendor will ship from. Newegg has multiple warehouses and if they ship from Edison NJ, I usually get it overnight while only paying standard UPS ground rates. If they ship from CA it can be up to a week. Worse still, there's no way (that I can see) to tell where it will come from in advance. I'm going to test the concept with the various AC wallwarts I rounded up from the junkbin for starters.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

What exasperated me with Jameco is that with some items there was a notice of extra shipping charges as you added them to the cart but, after eliminating all of those and placing the order, I found that there were still three different origins and shipping charges of $30 on a total order of about $10. I had to email them to cancel the order.

BTW, I bought a handful of these...

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Thanks for the link, Dave, and the heads-up about the multiple warehouses.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Ouch! At least you got to cancel. Lots of online places don't allow it.

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A while back they were selling both prewired plugs and jacks for about the same price as I stocked up because they offer good quantity discounts. I use them to make splitter cables to power microphone assemblies and bullet cams from the same power supply. I'm absolutely the worst at soldering coaxial power plugs and mini-stereo phone jacks. Getting a rugged, injection molded connector with good strain relief with a generous supply of polarity marked cable for $3 is "such" a deal! (-"

One thing I like about Allelectronics is they have an incredibly low shipping rate and they move the product out on the same day. There are have been some quality issues and some things can be found cheaper elsewhere, but all in all, I'd rate them pretty highly. They also take stuff back without an RMA, which is rather ReMArkable in the current environment. The customer reviews are also pretty accurate, at least as far as I can tell.

They turned me into a neodymium magnet madman: I've found an endless number of uses for their ring and motor magnets. The only problem there is that the really good deals sell out fast. I got some 6" ring magnets from them for $6 each that others want $25 and more for. They're incredibly powerful and one will float quite high above the other if mounted on a upright wooden dowel. You can easily break a finger getting in the way of two of them mating up and they'll pull at each other from several inches away. There are much better selections at magnet specialists, but it was the fiends at Allelectronics that got me hooked to begin with.

All of the various power supplies I've assembled from the junk bin have quite a variety of non-standard connectors. I am going to chop them off and wire them all to a 4 pole, 6 position rotary switch (still new in the bag from when Lafayette went belly up and they were selling stuff like that 5 for a dollar!) that will feed into the ESM1 head. Then I'll set up a nearby TM751 on an unused housecode and use a big spring clip to lock a PalmPad into continuous send. We'll see what the signal looks like as I step through the different wall warts. Any ideas how I can attenuate the signal from the stronger transformers so that they can be calibrated to give close to the same readings?

Do you really think the ESM1 needs a 500mA supply, or that's just what was handy and available? Based on the very low heat it generates, I don't see it using anywhere near that current.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

Wait to see whether you can see any difference.

I doubt it uses anywhere near 500mA but it makes little economic sense to build smaller Class 2 transformers.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Sounds like a plan!

I saw a number of AC transformers at Allelectronics:

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but none of them are quite right. The ACTX-1050 for $3 each is in the right price range but they are only 10VAC. I might give one a try with my next order from Allelectronics since I'll need some other components from them and the incremental shipping costs for additional items is always quite reasonable.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

This thread has recently morphed into a discussion of plug-in transformers and Jameco's shipping policies.

I would like to get back to the topic. The XTB-IIR prototype has been completed, and is running fine here.

I'm still waiting for one component that was held up due to a backorder at Digikey, but they are shipping a partial. The development document linked at the begnining of this thread has been updated to cover what the new unit can do. A draft of the mode options document has also been completed:

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I've been trying to make this the best X10 repeater available.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

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