X10/Insteon

8 years ago I set up x10 controls for the lights throughout my house. I am now ready to install a system in my new home, and am looking to find out if Insteon or some other system is better than x10?

The things I did not like about the x10 system were:

poor reliability of 3 way switches delay no soft on

Has x10 resolved these issues or is there a better system out there?

Thanks Chris

Reply to
Chris
Loading thread data ...

Depends on what you mean by solved, it's better than it was 8 years ago.

The devices are better and support more features (like soft on), have a higher reliability, and better signal detection.

There are a number of new devices to enhance reliability too (signal repeaters, boosters, two way communication).

There are also a number of new systems, but none of them have the range of devices, support, and low cost of X-10.

That being said, the major players in the enthusiast category: UPB, Z-Wave, and Insteon all have their pros and cons (and I would consider all of them better than X-10).

There is no clear best choice (every system seems to have some major drawbacks), but I am rather liking Insteon due to its very good backwards compatibility with X-10 (it's like icing on the cake that the others don't support) (but Insteon doesn't support 3-phase and there have been so many device firmware updates it would suck to be one of the first adopters).

Reply to
none

I like the Insteon stuff myself. X10 is 30+ year old technology and has survived only because nothing better was available in the price category. Insteon solves that. I'm converting now and so far all is working very well.

From:Chris snipped-for-privacy@oberholzer.us

Reply to
BruceR

Insteon probably has this solved, with the enrollment and ACK/NAk part of the protocol

Insteon is shorter. Insteon speed is about 2K bps (worse case) vs 60 bps for X10.

Smarthome has this for X10 and Insteon. Insteon is sold by Smarthome and I'd venture a guess that the X10 and Insteon prices are the same for the products with that feature.

Overall I agree with Bruce.

Reply to
Neil Cherry

As for 3-phase, it's apparent that Insteon is planning on selling in Europe at some point (some oblique references to European RF frequencies in some of the documentation make this clear). While that may not necessitate support for 3-phase, it's more likely they will see some demand for 3-phase support there.

Meanwhile, you might be able to use it >Depends on what you mean by solved, it's better than it was 8 years ago. >

Reply to
Dave Houston

One RF Linc per phase should work. The Insteon packets are 1823µS duration so three at 120° intervals or 5557µS apart will not overlap even if there is incidental coupling over the wiring.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Smarthome states that Insteon is not 3-phase compatible.

formatting link

Reply to
none

So who are you going to believe - me or the people who invented it?

I don't see any difficulties with standard messages. Insteon doesn't rely on a traditional PLC phase coupler. The RF Lincs can receive RF asynchronously and automatically resync with the local ZC when they resend it as PLC.

However, extended RF messages are 5625µS long which is 69µS longer than 1/3 of a 60Hz powerline cycle. There will be collisions between the RF from the various phases if they are sending extended messages.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Dave you do realize that is the URL were X10's and you ask that question it would be retorical. ;-)

Reply to
Neil Cherry

^^^^^ Sorry that's would not be retorical.

Reply to
Neil Cherry

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:04:22 GMT, "Chris" posted:

The LM14A should give you the soft on you are looking for! It's real sweet!!!

Reply to
Stephen Wilson

formatting link

Interesting, this makes it dead and unusable over here in Switzerland. Even my small single bedroom apartment used 2 separate phases for the two lighting circuits...

Markus

Reply to
Markus Baertschi

It will handle 2 phases fine just not 3 phase which is generally only found in larger industrial locations.

From:Markus Baertschi snipped-for-privacy@markus.org

formatting link
>

Reply to
BruceR

Well, it'll handle split phase 120V/240V, this is still considered single phase, and is not two phase.

Reply to
none

Yes, that's right, in the US we use "split single phase" service which, at the meter, is delivered as two 180 degree legs out of phase by 180 degrees. So, if you have two 60 Hz 120v phases 180 degrees apart these will work. That is NOT the same as two phases of 3 phase service which would only be 120 degrees apart.

From:none snipped-for-privacy@nospam.com

Reply to
BruceR

SmartHome does have plans for Europe, and I hope it includes more than just the UK (which from what I've read also uses single phase extensively).

Insteon is so incredibly superior to X-10, that it really would be worth waiting for.

Reply to
none

Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Is there a controller for insteon that has more that 5 switches? Or can you use the x10 controller? Has smarthome given any idea when additional items will be available?

Reply to
Chris

Yes, the KeypadLinc V2 supports either 6 or 8 buttons (configurable).

formatting link
You can use any X-10 controller, but you're going to want to be entirely Insteon when you see how good Insteon is compared to X-10.

SmartHome released several new Insteon items, but I've never seen a schedule or definitive list. There are many rumored devices, but only SmartHome knows when they'll actually release them...

Reply to
none

Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.